Could you be friends with someone who opposed gay marriage?

[davy]

On second thought: instead of educating straights and fellow glbt on why denying legal status is bad; our time would probably be better spent showing why gay marriage is more than a political decision.

you'd think.

But this is just another symptom of the inferiority complex that gay men seem to have. Please, they don't even want other gay men, the majority of them only want straight men... They're all over every detail of the private lives of straight movie stars... the moment a gay one comes out it's "Oh who cares? It's none of anyone's business? EVeryone knew anyway.. why does he have to talk about it?"

I tend to think that it's less an inferiority complex and more internalized homophobia.

If you think about it: society, in all forms of media and in custom, shows gays as inherently weaker or strange.

I also think that's why gays in typically masculine, ordinary roles draw more attention; like gay pro football players. (To me it also explains the "straight acting" crap).

Gay people, sadly we can see from this thread, also are more likely to think less of gay people.

No offense (again), but I've seen you take this stance a couple times in the past. I feel that straight-boy gay porn reinforces this internalized homophobia and, if I'm right about that, you're helping this inferiority complex survive.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think you're doing a bad thing by indulging others in this fantasy; but your rhetoric on this point feels more hard nosed than it's qualified to be.

 

[davy]

We have gone way off the OP's topic, and if we can't stay on topic and be more civilized, then this thread needs to be closed. We are all in violation of Charity towards the OP.

The topic has already meandered and the discussion is still civil. NOT being civil would be name calling and baiting.

Expressing your emotions while forming cohesive arguments is always acceptable while debating; which is what this thread is all about.

 

[JasunStrikesBack]

No offense (again), but I've seen you take this stance a couple times in the past. I feel that straight-boy gay porn reinforces this internalized homophobia and, if I'm right about that, you're helping this inferiority complex survive.

Well and (again) you just don't pay attention to what I say around here.

We aren't one of the sites that blather on and on about straight guys having gay sex. I don't generally talk about the sexual orientation of the guys unless they're gay. We try to work with as many gay guys as we can and we're very careful to point out when the guys are really into each other.

I'm very proud of the fact that we've let Lance Bennett chose which guys we wanted to work with and pair guys up if they ask to get paired up.

I've been VERY instrumental at the last two companies that I've worked for to REMOVE the "straight" staple from the marketing because I think it's smarmy and un-necessary. I've also become pretty successful doing it.

So before you say I don't have the right to talk about it because I work for a "straight boy gay porn" company, please learn a bit about the companies that I've worked for and maybe read my posts.

Don't just assume because we shoot hot masculine men that they're all straight. They're not.

 

[davy]

Well and (again) you just don't pay attention to what I say around here.
...

You have every right to talk about it even if you were blatantly hocking straight-boy stuff.

I was saying that you're being too in-your-face on those with internalized homphobia because those self loathers are usually drawn work outwardly similar to yours.

You can be of greater service to them (and to the rest of us) if you're more subtle with your message.

An analogy: your dog may not take its medicine directly, but it deffinately will if you put the medicine in it's food.

 

[JasunStrikesBack]

I was saying that you're being too in-your-face on those with internalized homphobia because those self loathers are usually drawn work outwardly similar to yours.

so wait... other porn companies do straight guy gay porn so I shouldn't have an opinion about why some gay men like it?

 

[davy]

so wait... other porn companies do straight guy gay porn so I shouldn't have an opinion about why some gay men like it?

On the contrary: your opinion is important on that matter because of your position. Your position enables you to do something about the inferiority complex you've described

 

[JasunStrikesBack]

On the contrary: your opinion is important on that matter because of your position. Your position enables you to do something about the inferiority complex you've described

And other than not make a big deal about sexual orientation, try to work with more gay men, just make a big deal about "hot" men... pair guys who are into each other together...

What did you want me to do?

 

[davy]

And other than not make a big deal about sexual orientation, try to work with more gay men, just make a big deal about "hot" men... pair guys who are into each other together...

What did you want me to do?

i don't want you to do anything, this has next to no bearing on my own situation; but what you can do is what i said earlier: don't be such a hard ass about how we're all screwing up.

as evidenced by my last four posts i'm clearly not communicating my point very well; so i'll try saying this again in a different way:

on more than this one occasion, your comments regarding the glbt community's proclivities had a pejorative connotation attached to them. since it sounds like it really does bother you, i've offered unsolicited advice on how to improve the situation.

in other words: light a candle instead of cursing the damn darkness.

 

[JasunStrikesBack]

I guess by showing gay men in gay porn movies and presenting it as hotter than bored straight guys, I thought I was doing that.

 

[heartfly77]

What difference does it make if the next person agrees/disagrees with marriage for gays or not. So long as they aren't apart of any action groups trying to hinder it from happening, they can have their opinion. Wanting your friends to give you complete surrender on any given issue isn't being a friend.

I agree with you. If my friend were to go out and actively campaign for no same-sex marriage, it would be a completely different thing. If it was allowed for me to get married, he probably wouldn't attend because it is against what he believes. However, he would never do anything to stop it. As long as I am happy than he is happy. But he doesn't need to compromise himself to make me happy, just like I shouldn't need to either. I don't believe any of his Christian ways either. That hasn't stopped him from being my friend. We have accepted each other's differences. Maybe if the world did this more often we would keep having violence and war. There is more to people than just sexuality. I don't base my friendships on the fact that we agree on every single thing. Some are making this a all or nothing situation. Just because someone agrees with gay marriage, doesn't mean they will be a better friend to me.

 

[heartfly77]

I agree with you. If my friend were to go out and actively campaign for no same-sex marriage, it would be a completely different thing. If it was allowed for me to get married, he probably wouldn't attend because it is against what he believes. However, he would never do anything to stop it. As long as I am happy than he is happy. But he doesn't need to compromise himself to make me happy, just like I shouldn't need to either. I don't believe any of his Christian ways either. That hasn't stopped him from being my friend. We have accepted each other's differences. Maybe if the world did this more often we would keep having violence and war. There is more to people than just sexuality. I don't base my friendships on the fact that we agree on every single thing. Some are making this a all or nothing situation. Just because someone agrees with gay marriage, doesn't mean they will be a better friend to me.

I meant that this would keep us from having violence and war.

 

[Football4u]

You cant blame them for not wanting guys to marry eachother. I mean , in their eyes its like WTF do u see in a guy? but then YOUR like WTF do you see in a woman? Naturally a penis goes in a hole to make a baby. A straight man thinks this is how it should be and havent thought about alternative lifestyles as much as YOU..not you personaly.. i dont know your views...but thats their world and thats all they know. If they are a nice person and the friendship is legit... hell ya!

 

[SirJude]

This isn't about points of view. This is about human rights.
Only a fool would refuse to be friends with someone who didn't agree with them at all times BUT only a fool would be friends with someone who didn't feel you deserved the same rights as everyone else.
The cheap shit cop out of "civil unions" fails. If it isn't equal it isn't right.
I strongly subscribe to the theory - if you changed the word gay to black (or white, jewish, hindu, asian) would it be right? If you answer no and yet still support the proposal you are a bigot.
I don't want to be friends with bigots!

 

[Mr-Pickles]

yes, quite easily. He's allowed his opinion just as much as I am.

 

[bankside]

See, this is western liberal mushiness rearing its ugly head again. Part of the problem with the advance of democracy is that everything has come to be viewed as opinion, rather than a search for right vs. wrong.

It IS about separating the wheat from the chaff, and marriage discrimination is chaff.

I don't care if it is a sincerely held opinion; it isn't an acceptable one.

 

[Críostóir]

yes, quite easily. He's allowed his opinion just as much as I am.

See, I don't think it prevents someone from having an opinion if I won't be friends with him. It's not like I'm the only friend he could ever have, or like my friendship is the only thing that keeps him from dying.

But there is another freedom affected by this decision: freedom of association - mine. I don't have to be friends with anyone I don't want to be friends with, and it in no way interferes with HIS freedoms if I refuse.

I don't choose my friends based on their opinions on everything, but this is a key human rights issue, and also...if someone doesn't believe I have the right to marry whomever I wish (provided they agree), they're showing a fundamental disrespect for me that I think is incompatible with friendship.

 

[bankside]

See, I don't think it prevents someone from having an opinion if I won't be friends with him. It's not like I'm the only friend he could ever have, or like my friendship is the only thing that keeps him from dying.

But there is another freedom affected by this decision: freedom of association - mine. I don't have to be friends with anyone I don't want to be friends with, and it in no way interferes with HIS freedoms if I refuse.

I don't choose my friends based on their opinions on everything, but this is a key human rights issue, and also...if someone doesn't believe I have the right to marry whomever I wish (provided they agree), they're showing a fundamental disrespect for me that I think is incompatible with friendship.

This is one of the smartest responses so far.

 

[JasunStrikesBack]

See, this is western liberal mushiness rearing its ugly head again. Part of the problem with the advance of democracy is that everything has come to be viewed as opinion, rather than a search for right vs. wrong.

It IS about separating the wheat from the chaff, and marriage discrimination is chaff.

I don't care if it is a sincerely held opinion; it isn't an acceptable one.

you go, girl.

 

[JasunStrikesBack]

This is one of the smartest responses so far.

Yeah, I fucking hate it when he's that much more eloquent than me.

 

[Pangelboy]

Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one.

In an exceptional case, I might be able to have a very tepid friendship with someone who opposed marriage equality. It would never be a true friendship, because they're opposed to a fundamental right that I am entitled to, at least as long as they are.

To heartfly77:

1) I don't know how you could call a person a friend, when they won't even show up to your wedding. You know a celebration to be attended by family and FRIENDS to express your dedication to another person.

I wonder if they would still call you a friend if you didn't show up to their wedding?

2) You can disbelieve in his Christian teachings all you want, but you don't disbelieve in his RIGHT to hold them.

Yes, their opposition might be only one facet of their personality, but being opposed to equality under the law is such an enormous opinion that I don't see how it wouldn't influence the rest of their personality. If you want to be friends with someone who believes that you're undeserving of rights, just because you're gay, then go ahead.

To everyone posting how unfair it is to expect your friends to agree with you on EVERYTHING. That's is an inane argument. You expect your friends to be happy for you and to SUPPORT you. If you're so-called friend doesn't support your right to find someone and to marry them, then how can you call them a friend?