Creationism banned from "free schools" in Britain

[metta]

Creationism banned from "free schools" in Britain

http://ncse.com/news/2011/05/creationism-banned-from-free-schools-britain-006683

 

[unloadonme]

Quite right too. Teach it as a religious belief if you must, but it's not science and shouldn't be misrepresented as such.

 

[EwanSF]

Should be banned from all schools.

 

[anchihiro]

Cool, as it should be.

 

[Zaphod]

Well good, Just as they should also ban teaching voodoo and a flat earth.

 

[thermodynamics]

It's about time!

A "theory" in the scientific sense is not what most people think it is. A theory that is this old is a set of ideas that we've given up on trying to disprove. It is not (as the public might believe) a spur-of-the-moment, working, idea.

 

[vforvendetta]

Well good, Just as they should also ban teaching voodoo and a flat earth.

It's probably being done because of the precedent - Islam is a rather potent force in the UK unfortunately, and I don't see it long before they start trying to push religious dogma into public schools as well.

 

[SLOPPYSECONDS]

no worrys no country teach nothin anyway but make da nice copys of next twats ta twat with twats ta keep um up ta date in latest twateess

-

if read this ya not won 10 million indian rupees sorry

 

[rjmrjm21]

Banned? Sounds like they're turning communist too. Notice how the decline of Western Civilization corresponds to the movement away from tradition? Sad to watch it lose its shine. Anyway, evolution just doesn't explain who CREATED the big bang and all of the scientific laws. Somebody created the 1st atom. Britain is in denial. Oh well, guess they've been in denial about many things.

 

[vforvendetta]

Banned? Sounds like they're turning communist too. Notice how the decline of Western Civilization corresponds to the movement away from tradition? Sad to watch it lose its shine. Anyway, evolution just doesn't explain who CREATED the big bang and all of the scientific laws. Somebody created the 1st atom. Britain is in denial. Oh well, guess they've been in denial about many things.

I wish you'd been there when I delivered my speech on why creationism and the like must be banned from schools - if nothing else appeals, the idea of other groups trying to push the same nonsense because of the precedent your religion set should. How would you like it if I were to teach students about the origin theory from the Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster? I'd have just as valid grounds to do so as you....and let's not forget what the Buddhists might have to contribute, the Shinto religion...Jim Jones' cult....Scientology's perspective....who are you to draw a line in the sand once the cat's out of the bag? You cut your own throat by advocating religious text and teaching in schools.

Science in school must remain strictly tied to the empirical - doing otherwise undermines the fundamental principle we use in the science classroom, the scientific method. Furthermore...evolution is NOT abiogenesis, something that may or may not be beneficial for you to look up.

Something else for you to observe is that your version of creationism is far from the only one out there - aside from an ancient bronze age text, you have nothing else to support your specific account. Most of us simply don't address the question, as we don't know enough to make a real statement as to what the factual cause was. We have evidence from observations and measurements, and that's what we show students. When we have a lot of evidence towards a possible cause, we slap the 'theory' label on it - these are constantly modified as new empirical evidence is uncovered. Students can draw their own conclusions from the evidence presented for these theories.

 

[bi-4u2]

creationism was already proven falce by science

intelligent design should be the alternative

 

[hotatlboi]

A "theory" in the scientific sense is not what most people think it is.

Quite true.

Theory in popular domain = hypothesis/conjecture in the scientific domain

I mean atomic "theory" is still a theory, but we pretty well proved it to be factual when we invented the atom bomb.

 

[rjmrjm21]

I wish you'd been there when I delivered my speech on why creationism and the like must be banned from schools - if nothing else appeals, the idea of other groups trying to push the same nonsense because of the precedent your religion set should. How would you like it if I were to teach students about the origin theory from the Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster? I'd have just as valid grounds to do so as you....and let's not forget what the Buddhists might have to contribute, the Shinto religion...Jim Jones' cult....Scientology's perspective....who are you to draw a line in the sand once the cat's out of the bag? You cut your own throat by advocating religious text and teaching in schools.Science in school must remain strictly tied to the empirical - doing otherwise undermines the fundamental principle we use in the science classroom, the scientific method. Furthermore...evolution is NOT abiogenesis, something that may or may not be beneficial for you to look up.
Something else for you to observe is that your version of creationism is far from the only one out there - aside from an ancient bronze age text, you have nothing else to support your specific account. Most of us simply don't address the question, as we don't know enough to make a real statement as to what the factual cause was. We have evidence from observations and measurements, and that's what we show students. When we have a lot of evidence towards a possible cause, we slap the 'theory' label on it - these are constantly modified as new empirical evidence is uncovered. Students can draw their own conclusions from the evidence presented for these theories.

So, you're advocating that students should be in denial about being ignorant about something as fundamental as the origin of life? Well, I guess if anybody wants to know where they come from, they won't go to you because you don't have the answer--sowwwwy.

Look, I am not denying scientific law but, I do believe that the Christian God is the origin of life and therefore, the creator of scientific law. There might have been a giant explosion but, someone created it and that someone is God.

You have a theory that changes every year, evolution, versus something as steadfast as Creation, that has lasted thousands of years...there's really no comparison. In your view, what's true today, might not be true tomorrow. So does not hold water. In my view Creation is as true today as it has been throughout eternity. That is substantive. that is concrete and that is what they need to be taught.

Far as including other religions, Britain shouldn't have to bend over backward to appease those who don't follow tradition. If people want to follow Islam or Buddha, then they should go where there those religions are taught and followed by a majority. Britain isn't the place.

 

[vforvendetta]

So, you're advocating that students should be in denial about being ignorant about something as fundamental as the origin of life? Well, I guess if anybody wants to know where they come from, they won't go to you because you don't have the answer--sowwwwy.

I advocate teaching what we know the facts about, and not making up nonsense in place of what we don't know. It's a very irrational attitude to say "we don't know enough about something to draw a scientific conclusion, so we should make our own non-evidence based theory based on some antique book which happens to also be full of contradictions that I like to ignore."

Look, I am not denying scientific law but, I do believe that the Christian God is the origin of life and therefore, the creator of scientific law. There might have been a giant explosion but, someone created it and that someone is God.

And you're completely entitled to your faith-based opinion (as ignorant as I happen to think it is). No, there's absolutely no evidence towards your very aggressive assertion that your particular god created all of this, even by throwing in some intelligent design with it. You claim to know the unknowable, as in what is beyond the scope of any rational inquiry as we simply cannot test it. Your claim is entirely faith driven, and as a result certainly not fit for the classroom and the minds of the next generation.

You have a theory that changes every year, evolution, versus something as steadfast as Creation, that has lasted thousands of years...there's really no comparison. In your view, what's true today, might not be true tomorrow. So does not hold water. In my view Creation is as true today as it has been throughout eternity. That is substantive. that is concrete and that is what they need to be taught.

Absolutely, science is an art in which change is necessary to accommodate new evidence. We are truth seekers and we will change flawed conclusions to match what the evidence tells us is correct. That said, religion attempts to remain consistent even in the face of overwhelming contradiction from hard evidence in science - going so far as trying to stop scientific progress through force as it threatens to expose fallacies and obvious non-truths in the bible, which certainly hurts the credibility of a religious establishment. If "god" said in the bible that 1+1 = 3, many religious groups would try to 'interpret' it so that they can have their cake and eat it too, even when we know the obvious fact is that 1+1 = 2. Actually, that's exactly what intelligent design is intended to do, and you see how fast that fell apart. Your claim that 'creation [...] is concrete' is laughable, especially after how Christian organizations have attempted to 're-interpret' the what the bible says when they realize there's no winning a battle in which they become the public jester.

Far as including other religions, Britain shouldn't have to bend over backward to appease those who don't follow tradition. If people want to follow Islam or Buddha, then they should go where there those religions are taught and followed by a majority. Britain isn't the place.

Oh of course, I'm not surprised to see you hold a very stark double standard - why is that? Because you're special, because you just have that gut feeling that you're right? Going to have to do better than that to justify your bias. How do you know that some other religion isn't correct and that you're simply wrong in your faith? (That's a rhetorical question) I think you'll also find it interesting to note that Britain is very well on the road to becoming an Islamic state, perhaps as soon as 2060. How do you feel about them teaching Islam then? I bet you don't like that prospect either!

creationism was already proven falce by science

intelligent design should be the alternative

That's not true - however, I think you'll enjoy the following video, which appeals to logic and can explain why many scientists are either atheist or agnostic:

 

[looseliam]

I think we'll have a gay, black, jewish woman as a president before this happens in the US.

 

[rjmrjm21]

I advocate teaching what we know the facts about, and not making up nonsense in place of what we don't know. It's a very irrational attitude to say "we don't know enough about something to draw a scientific conclusion, so we should make our own non-evidence based theory based on some antique book which happens to also be full of contradictions that I like to ignore." And you're completely entitled to your faith-based opinion (as ignorant as I happen to think it is). No, there's absolutely no evidence towards your very aggressive assertion that your particular god created all of this, even by throwing in some intelligent design with it. You claim to know the unknowable, as in what is beyond the scope of any rational inquiry as we simply cannot test it. Your claim is entirely faith driven, and as a result certainly not fit for the classroom and the minds of the next generation.Absolutely, science is an art in which change is necessary to accommodate new evidence. We are truth seekers and we will change flawed conclusions to match what the evidence tells us is correct. That said, religion attempts to remain consistent even in the face of overwhelming contradiction from hard evidence in science - going so far as trying to stop scientific progress through force as it threatens to expose fallacies and obvious non-truths in the bible, which certainly hurts the credibility of a religious establishment. If "god" said in the bible that 1+1 = 3, many religious groups would try to 'interpret' it so that they can have their cake and eat it too, even when we know the obvious fact is that 1+1 = 2. Actually, that's exactly what intelligent design is intended to do, and you see how fast that fell apart. Your claim that 'creation [...] is concrete' is laughable, especially after how Christian organizations have attempted to 're-interpret' the what the bible says when they realize there's no winning a battle in which they become the public jester. Oh of course, I'm not surprised to see you hold a very stark double standard - why is that? Because you're special, because you just have that gut feeling that you're right? Going to have to do better than that to justify your bias. How do you know that some other religion isn't correct and that you're simply wrong in your faith? (That's a rhetorical question) I think you'll also find it interesting to note that Britain is very well on the road to becoming an Islamic state, perhaps as soon as 2060. How do you feel about them teaching Islam then? I bet you don't like that prospect either!That's not true - however, I think you'll enjoy the following video, which appeals to logic and can explain why many scientists are either atheist or agnostic:

I don't feel like going into detail about how many holes there are in atheist theory. You guys are fundamentally WRONG. Do you understand what that means?

ATHEISM CANNOT EXPLAIN THE ORIGIN OF LIFE.
ATHEISM CANNOT EXPLAIN HOW MATTER ORIGINATED FROM NOTHING.

Any attempt to circumvent the truth, just shows that your either fearful or...have inferior intelligence.

As stated, Believers have FAITH that GOD created science and everything in the universe. That is what the majority of humans believe and the best that you 5% to 10% of non believers can do is try to "ban" Christian education. Why not just fly to the moon or something because in life's grand scheme, you guys are truly OUT THERE.

Far as Islam in the UK, you sound proud that its influence is growing but, that's because out of all other religions, Christianity has shined the brightest. I could see why you might want to shut it down--it exposes your improprieties. Kind of like shining the light on roaches, they just run and scatter, only its your ego.

 

[vforvendetta]

I don't feel like going into detail about how many holes there are in atheist theory. You guys are fundamentally WRONG. Do you understand what that means?

Or rather, you can't. I'd love for you to expound on why I'm "fundamentally wrong" - I really think things are a bit backwards here.

ATHEISM CANNOT EXPLAIN THE ORIGIN OF LIFE.
ATHEISM CANNOT EXPLAIN HOW MATTER ORIGINATED FROM NOTHING.

No, we can't explain the origin of the universe (life is a different story, see abiogenesis theory) - and more than likely science never will be able to due to the restrictions on what we can study (that, and it's a bit of a paradoxical question - after all, what caused the big bang, or in your version, who created god?). However, that's a rather weak reason to start believing in the superstitious. A more reasonable approach is to say "there may be something beyond our realm, but there's no way to know what it is." If you'd watch the video I linked to in my previous post you'd have (hopefully) started to realize how profoundly flawed your reasoning is. Tell me, what exactly is it about the Bible that has so convinced you that it is the truth and is better than other religions, as opposed to what the Buddhists, Hindu or Shinto faiths believe? What exactly is god anyway? Can you describe god for me? Certainly these ideologies conflict in their beliefs, but none has any way to show that they are the real truth.

Any attempt to circumvent the truth, just shows that your either fearful or...have inferior intelligence.

The truth is what I seek - you, on the other hand, cling to age old dogma which blinds you from reason and then want to force your ideas on others at their expense.

As stated, Believers have FAITH that GOD created science and everything in the universe. That is what the majority of humans believe and the best that you 5% to 10% of non believers can do is try to "ban" Christian education. Why not just fly to the moon or something because in life's grand scheme, you guys are truly OUT THERE.

What caused you to start having faith in your particular god? Is this the same faith that many have when they send money to Nigeria when they're alerted they've won $100,000 but need to pay a $5000 fee to retrieve the cash?

The majority of humans are uneducated/ignorant of factual material many people in the developed world take for-granted. Just because the majority thinks something is right doesn't make it so - even the founding fathers of the US knew this, which is why the US is a representative republic and not a democracy.

No, we're not trying to ban "Christian" education, we're trying to ban "religious" education within the schools. I put in tax dollars too, and I don't want to have to a) teach your nonsense in the classroom or b) be forced to pay so you can push your hurtful ideology on others. I doubt you'd want to live in a country where you were forced to pay a tax so that YOUR children could be indoctrinated into the wonders of some foreign religious dogma. I'm absolutely shocked that you can't see how trying to push this kind of precedent would hurt your own group in the long run when another religious group demands the same thing.

Far as Islam in the UK, you sound proud that its influence is growing but, that's because out of all other religions, Christianity has shined the brightest. I could see why you might want to shut it down--it exposes your improprieties. Kind of like shining the light on roaches, they just run and scatter, only its your ego.

Quite to the contrary, I find the trend to be largely disturbing, as Britain adopts Sharia law into many of its social and legal venues. We aren't trying to 'shut it down' - I believe that you should be able to believe what you like, even if I think you're crazy, but I will not tolerate efforts to force teachers, students and parents alike to participate in your brainwashing process. Leave it in church - if your belief is so "right" and appealing people will flock there anyway.

 

[star-warrior]

I don't feel like going into detail about how many holes there are in atheist theory. You guys are fundamentally WRONG. Do you understand what that means?
ATHEISM CANNOT EXPLAIN THE ORIGIN OF LIFE.
ATHEISM CANNOT EXPLAIN HOW MATTER ORIGINATED FROM NOTHING.

Any attempt to circumvent the truth, just shows that your either fearful or...have inferior intelligence.

As stated, Believers have FAITH that GOD created science and everything in the universe. That is what the majority of humans believe and the best that you 5% to 10% of non believers can do is try to "ban" Christian education. Why not just fly to the moon or something because in life's grand scheme, you guys are truly OUT THERE.

Far as Islam in the UK, you sound proud that its influence is growing but, that's because out of all other religions, Christianity has shined the brightest. I could see why you might want to shut it down--it exposes your improprieties. Kind of like shining the light on roaches, they just run and scatter, only its your ego.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRLR9jhP_DM[/ame]

 

[EwanSF]

I don't feel like going into detail about how many holes there are in atheist theory. You guys are fundamentally WRONG. Do you understand what that means?

Ummmm....prove it.

ATHEISM CANNOT EXPLAIN THE ORIGIN OF LIFE..

Nor does it try to. It simply states that the outlandish, ludicrous notion of your god is utter fucking nonsense.

ATHEISM CANNOT EXPLAIN HOW MATTER ORIGINATED FROM NOTHING.

Neither can you. I may not be physicist or have a great understanding about the inner-workings of the universe, but your going to have to provide me with a more convincing theory than "magic man done it!"

Any attempt to circumvent the truth, just shows that your either fearful or...have inferior intelligence.

You're seriously trying to suggest that not believeing in a deity shows fearfulness? You're the one that clings to the idea of an intangiable invisible father figure because you're terrified of dying. As for inferior intelegence...You're fucking serious?

As stated, Believers have FAITH that GOD created science and everything in the universe. That is what the majority of humans believe and the best that you 5% to 10% of non believers can do is try to "ban" Christian education. Why not just fly to the moon or something because in life's grand scheme, you guys are truly OUT THERE.

Well this more or less sums it up. "Faith." Basicaly, you're insisting there is incontrovertable truth of the existance of god, simply because you really, really, really want to believe it. Are you retarded? And just because the majority of humans believe it, doesn't make it so. Humans are more than just falible. And thanks to the efforts of the west, people in the third world are denied an education, and are indoctrinated into religious mental bondage by people like you. It's nothing to do with the intelegence of the believer. It's either down to enforced delusion (third world,) or voluntary stupidity (you.)

Far as Islam in the UK, you sound proud that its influence is growing but, that's because out of all other religions, Christianity has shined the brightest. I could see why you might want to shut it down--it exposes your improprieties. Kind of like shining the light on roaches, they just run and scatter, only its your ego.

Your religion is a vile form of social control. I see no difference between it and Islam. Both need need to be iradicated.

 

[Callum]

Creationism is utter nonsense and I'm happy they've taken steps to be rid of it from education systems.