Democratic Debate Charleston SC - January 17th [MERGED]

[hotatlboi]

I agree that a Hillary administration would be a 3rd term of the Obama administration.

In Britain, The Telegraph regards Obama as slightly to the right of David Cameron. Cameron is, of course, a typical European conservative. Which puts Obama, in their view, slightly to the right of center-right. Which is where I would also put Hillary. And conservative columnist David Brooks has argued that Obama is actually "too conservative."

Remember, both Obama and Clinton opposed gay marriage (in Clinton's case, until 2014!). Obama gave us the Republican program for healthcare. He has been the biggest deporter of illegal immigrants in history. He has continued the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy. Etc. etc.

I guess we should clarify the scale then.

On the world spectrum, I could agree that Obama is center-right.

On the US political spectrum, he is center-left.

 

[opinterph]

Well it appears that just about everybody is just so certain of who's gonna win what ......

Yech

It appears that other people are just so certain of the candidates’ motivations.

 

[T-Rexx]

One of us would have you believe that our current President is a conservative

That Hillary is a conservative

then quotes a British source as "proof"

You're right. No one outside of the US knows anything.

And David Brooks is not British.

 

[Benvolio]

Actually, it was the Heritage Foundation.

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/...bamacare_is_Free_Market_Conservatives___.html




They were continued in the Tax Relief, Unemployment Insurance Reauthorization, and Job Creation Act of 2010. Then, they were made permanent in 2012 for people making less than $400,000 per year.




Not true.

http://www.thenation.com/article/wh...ted-more-immigrants-any-president-us-history/




I wouldn't expect you to agree with the rest of the world on anything, Ben.

Your claim that Obamacare is exactly the same as the heritage plan is nonsense. But you do agree that it is not Obama's plan. It was put together by the dems in Congress and is not evidence of his "conservatism."
Your immigration article is ruthlessly pro immigrant and anti American. It makes no mention of the change in the definition of "deport"http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-obama-deportations-20140402-story.html#page=1

 

[TX-Beau]

You're right. No one outside of the US knows anything.

And David Brooks is not British.

Expecting facts from Ben is VERBOTEN!!!!

We all know how allergic he is to reality. Do you want to incite a medical incident?

 

[jbrown329]

Your claim that Obamacare is exactly the same as the heritage plan is nonsense. But you do agree that it is not Obama's plan. It was put together by the dems in Congress and is not evidence of his "conservatism."
Your immigration article is ruthlessly pro immigrant and anti American. It makes no mention of the change in the definition of "deport"http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-obama-deportations-20140402-story.html#page=1

Qualls said the Affordable Care Act "was the Republican plan in the '90s." The bill she had in mind did have a strong roster of Republicans behind it, and it did share many major features with the Affordable Care Act. There were some significant differences but in a side-by-side comparison, the similarities dominate. Rated half true.
http://www.politifact.com/punditfac...5/ellen-qualls/aca-gop-health-care-plan-1993/

 

[evanrick]

Hillary is an extreme right wing democrat, a neocon ,people attack bernie for being a socialist but hillary was a registered republican and she gets a free pass? which is worse?

 

[BenDan]

You're right. No one outside of the US knows anything.

And David Brooks is not British.

David Cameron is but you know that

and you're dishonest "david brooks says" is as usual specious

from YOUR quoted piece which I guess you didn't read or expected no one else to

you decide the ending of the book and then right the narrative to fit LOL

try again

David Brooks today calls President Obama a “right-wing extremist.” And while he is obviously joking, the point of the joke is that, having spent five years gently and thoughtfully but consistently criticizing Obama from the right, as too much the doctrinaire big government liberal, he is now gently and thoughtfully criticizing him from the left. His column argues that Obama should aim for less deficit reduction and bigger increases in government investment in education and infrastructure.

 

[Benvolio]

Qualls said the Affordable Care Act "was the Republican plan in the '90s." The bill she had in mind did have a strong roster of Republicans behind it, and it did share many major features with the Affordable Care Act. There were some significant differences but in a side-by-side comparison, the similarities dominate. Rated half true.
http://www.politifact.com/punditfac...5/ellen-qualls/aca-gop-health-care-plan-1993/

This comes up here because trexx said obama is conservative because he gave us obama care. But in fact he did little but sign what the dems in Congress out before him. Obama would probably prefer socialized/ single payer medicine.

 

[opinterph]

which is worse?

“Is” is probably worse than “was” to anyone evaluating whatever he or she may regard as undesirable.

 

[jbrown329]

David Brooks is a major pos. Loved seeing Tom Oliphant rip him a new one on PBS Newshour a few years back. As for Hillary being extreme rightwing Democrat, no. She's a tad (very small tad) left of center. And when she was a registered Republican, that party was a shitload more liberal than today.

Note: I'm not sticking up for Hillary. I am a Bernie supporter.

 

[T-Rexx]

David Cameron is but you know that

and you're dishonest "david brooks says" is as usual specious

from YOUR quoted piece which I guess you didn't read or expected no one else to

you decide the ending of the book and then right the narrative to fit LOL

try again

Brooks is critisizing Obama from the left - because Obama is to the right of David Brooks.

try again, Ben

 

[TX-Beau]

I'm sticking up for all of them, Obama Hilary AND Bill, Bernie and the other guy, because the only universes in which any of them could be considered "conservative" as that word is bandied about in 2016, would be some kind of Bizarro World.

No, for the most part they are not as left as I am, but any of them are better than Ted FUCKING Cruz or any of the other extremists on the right.

 

[TX-Beau]

By a HUGE fucking margin.

 

[T-Rexx]

No, for the most part they are not as left as I am, but any of them are better than Ted FUCKING Cruz or any of the other extremists on the right.

Herein lies the problem.

Our American Republican Party is so absurdly skewed to the right that anyone to the left of that is considered "left wing." Which is an absurd definition, when the policies most of such people espouse can hardly be considered "left" by tradition measures.

National health care, for example, is enjoyed by every single industrial democracy on earth. Every last one of them. Except, of course, the United States. But bringing the USA up to world standards is somehow regarded as "left wing" socialist extremism by Republicans. That's absurd. National health care is as centrist as centrist gets.

America has two political parties: Right and Far Right.

 

[TX-Beau]

Herein lies the problem.

Our American Republican Party is so absurdly skewed to the right that anyone to the left of that is considered "left wing." Which is an absurd definition, when the policies most of such people espouse can hardly be considered "left" by tradition measures.

National health care, for example, is enjoyed by every single industrial democracy on earth. Every last one of them. Except, of course, the United States. But bringing the USA up to world standards is somehow regarded as "left wing" socialist extremism by Republicans. That's absurd. National health care is as centrist as centrist gets.

And we are all supposed to celebrate the "democracy" that only provides us with a choice of bat-shit fucking crazy fascist asshole, or Centrist figurehead.

Sometimes I get very jealous of the parliamentary system.

 

[TX-Beau]

The horrible irony is that if you ask Americans about those socialist programs individually, omitting the buzz words, we want those things.

It pisses me off.

 

[jbrown329]

The horrible irony is that if you ask Americans about those socialist programs individually, omitting the buzz words, we want those things.

It pisses me off.

Amazing that when I was a teenager (70s), I had a far better grasp/knowledge of socialism. I guess it was because of those damn "liberal" teachers I had.

 

[Benvolio]

We are by far the largest and richest industrial democracy, and we have gotten here be fending off socialism as best we can, and defending the other industrial democracies from communism. I doubt if people would be as satisfied with their socialized medicine had they not have had the beneft of the vast sums we have spent on research and development, and subsidized theirs.

 

[TX-Beau]

We are by far the largest and richest industrial democracy, and we have gotten here be fending off socialism as best we can, and defending the other industrial democracies from communism. I doubt if people would be as satisfied with their socialized medicine had they not have had the beneft of the vast sums we have spent on research and development, and subsidized theirs.

YO Canada! Scandanavia! Europe! WE PAID for your UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE!!!!!!



Oh man, that's at least a three whiskey assertion.

- - - Updated - - -

BEN! You need to slow down and let the rest of us catch up!