Do closet cases attract closet cases?

[Lube]

I don't want to hijack another thread, so I'm reposting here, with additional comments:

Originally Posted by Lube

I just think it's hilarious that so many guys here insist they're straight acting and no one knows they're gay... and yet when some asks about a "straight" friend, we always assume they're straight and not in the closet.

It doesn't make sense to me.

Well, statistically the odds are somewhere between 1:10 and 1:20 that a guy is gay. Those aren't good odds, so it's safe to assume that a guy is straight until proven otherwise.

We all want to find things in common with people, so there's a hope that friends or guys we're interested in might be gay or bi.

This doesn't apply to this OP but a general observation: Too often, the question is not, "Is he gay?", the question being asked is really, "Can he be had?".

Well those statistics make sense only in terms of random interactions.

But we're never talking about random interactions. We're talking about (best) friends and roommates, usually.

And despite all the "I'm straight acting" talk, most gay men are pretty darn gay (myself included). And their male friends tend to be gay, gay-acting, or closet cases in my experience.

I mean, most straight guys are pretty darn boring.

But seriously, people tend to befriend people most like themselves. There are always exceptions, but I think most gay guys who question their friends' or roommates' sexuality have a reason to believe they are gay, bi, or closet cases.

Now, that doesn't mean that these friends or roommates are capable of dealing with their sexuality--and may remain closet cases for their entire life--but it's just silly to assume that they're straight.

Because they're probably gay.

 

[tonyboy]

I don't want to hijack another thread, so I'm reposting here, with additional comments:

Originally Posted by Lube



Well those statistics make sense only in terms of random interactions.

But we're never talking about random interactions. We're talking about (best) friends and roommates, usually.

And despite all the "I'm straight acting" talk, most gay men are pretty darn gay (myself included). And their male friends tend to be gay, gay-acting, or closet cases in my experience.

I mean, most straight guys are pretty darn boring.

But seriously, people tend to befriend people most like themselves. There are always exceptions, but I think most gay guys who question their friends' or roommates' sexuality have a reason to believe they are gay, bi, or closet cases.

Now, that doesn't mean that these friends or roommates are capable of dealing with their sexuality--and may remain closet cases for their entire life--but it's just silly to assume that they're straight.

Because they're probably gay.

Most gay guys do talk, act, behave as straight...
Not sure what part of the world you are from my friend...

It is damned tough to figure out if a guy (other than the fem guys) are straight or gay.

For a guy that is not 'out' it's very tough to figure out if someone he is interested in is gay or not.
Yeah, it's getting easier now days... I write to lot's of guys through pm and email that are young and still have a tough time dealing with figuring out if they want to 'out' themselves.

My best online buddy is 23.. he has been 'out' for a few years.. he does not give a damn if anyone know he is gay... but you would not know he is gay if he did not tell you..
He is as masculine as any man could be.
Got a young friend that is not on jub.. I know him through email... he's 16.. plays basktetball and football in his school.... you would look at him and not know he was gay.
And he is haveing a damned tough time trying to figure out who to talk to about this.. I try to help him figure it out.. but it's up to him..

With the exception of one friend all my friends are straight.. and that one friend of mine died a few years ago... we never had sex together.. but I knew he was gay and he knew I was.

My friends are my friends, not cause I think they are gay... hell, most of my friends are in to things I am not... but they are my friends because they are good people..
they trust me and like me because I'm a good guy. I don't think they give a damn if I like to be with guys.. but they would not know that I do like that because I never have shared that part of my life with them.

 

[KingofFaeries]

Alot of peolpe asking the 'Are the gay?' question are not people that truly believe that whoever they are asking about is really gay. If they had any strong leanings about whether or not the person was gay then they would probably have the courage to ask about it directly and then there wouldn't be any need to ask us about it.

Generally I've found that when people ask 'Is he gay?' it has little to do with that persons sexuality, but has quite alot to do with their desire for that person to reciprocate their fantasy. People think that their best friend/roommate/ co worker/classmate would make an awesome boyfriend because 'we have so much in common' so they build up an elaborate fantasy in their head and then try to make that person fit into that fantasy in the real world. Usually the ambitious ones fails and ruin their relationships with those people. Only on rare occasions have I ever seen that work.

As for the people befriending people like themselves, perhaps I'm an exception, but none of my friends are anything like me. Sure they all share some of my inconsistencies but overall we are dramatically different. Really the only thing I can think of that we all have in common is that we are friends. /shrug

 

[Lube]

Perhaps you guys are misinterpreting what I'm saying.

When I say I'm pretty gay, I don't mean I squeal about Madonna and keep up on the latest celebrity gossip and lisp from my 90-pound, tall, hairless frame. But I do like the arts and 80's music and my Vespa scooter and bicycling and my Mac and iPhone and Volkswagen Jetta. Any one of those things does not make me gay, but put them all together and that's pretty damn gay! My bf/partner is very handsome and muscular and you probably couldn't tell just by looking at him. But he loves Ella Fitzgerald and Broadway soundtracks and knows the color of Gracie Mansion and has a poodle and drives a Jeep Wrangler for god's sake! LOL. You'd have to be blind or in denial to not realize he's gay.

Also, I'm not saying gay men seek out gay men as friends. And I'm not saying friends are all clones of each other.

What I am saying is that people tend to aggregate around other people who share similar world views, similar views on politics (in a broad sense) and similar views on religion (I am not saying that Catholics don't hang out with Presbyterians or Jews, but more like people who are so-so about going to church every week tend to hang out with similarly-minded people, and über-religious people tend to hang out together, etc.). Especially close friends.

I am painting in broad swaths--not specifics about which sports team you like or who's your favorite actor.

It's funny that gay men here on JUB keep insisting on how straight-acting their friends are. A high school friend of mine (a lesbian) and I recently got together for the first time in ages. We reminisced about high school (good and bad) and asked each other about who we thought was gay or lesbian (no one was out back then: not a single person). And you know what? We came up with pretty much identical lists.

And so many people from my past have turned out to be gay or lesbian now. It's like we see something in each other subconsciously--we seek out our 'differentness'.

And you meet the families of your gay friends, and they're the only out person in the family. And you look at the family and think: OMG, there is so much gayness in this family, it just screams out! (Many studies have shown gayness is inherited. You're not the only one in your family.)

And you see it in 10-year old kids playing/fighting. They can pick out the "faggy" kid in 10 seconds. And yet here we are, gay adult men, saying it's impossible to say who's gay and who's straight. So how do kids figure it out?

It's like JUBbers are that guy from the British comedy Little Britain: I'm the only gay in this village!

Really? I don't think so. Open your eyes.

 

[Lube]

Alot of peolpe asking the 'Are the gay?' question are not people that truly believe that whoever they are asking about is really gay. If they had any strong leanings about whether or not the person was gay then they would probably have the courage to ask about it directly

Except that these are usually people who can't even come out themselves. So how could they have the courage to ask someone else--since that would inevitable out themselves?

 

[bounder]

When I say I'm pretty gay, I don't mean I squeal about Madonna and keep up on the latest celebrity gossip and lisp from my 90-pound, tall, hairless frame. But I do like the arts and 80's music and my Vespa scooter and bicycling and my Mac and iPhone and Volkswagen Jetta. Any one of those things does not make me gay, but put them all together and that's pretty damn gay! My bf/partner is very handsome and muscular and you probably couldn't tell just by looking at him. But he loves Ella Fitzgerald and Broadway soundtracks and knows the color of Gracie Mansion and has a poodle and drives a Jeep Wrangler for god's sake! LOL. You'd have to be blind or in denial to not realize he's gay.

Nothing you described there screams out gay to me...well, maybe the poodle.

 

[CudDULL]

Lube I see where you are coming from and to an extent you are right. But I think there are other guys out there are the biggest mind fucks that confuse themselves and everyone else around them. But I do get the jist of what you are saying and pretty much agree.

 

[Alex00]

My friends are my friends, not cause I think they are gay... hell, most of my friends are in to things I am not... but they are my friends because they are good people..
they trust me and like me because I'm a good guy. I don't think they give a damn if I like to be with guys.. but they would not know that I do like that because I never have shared that part of my life with them.

That point is quite interesting cause in addition to likes and common things, a lot of friendships are born from more deep things, like way of life, thinking, etc. Furthermore, I'd dare to say that most reflective people tend to that kind of friendship. In my case, my friends are waaay different from me in certain things, but somehow we're still kind of the same.

It's funny that gay men here on JUB keep insisting on how straight-acting their friends are. A high school friend of mine (a lesbian) and I recently got together for the first time in ages. We reminisced about high school (good and bad) and asked each other about who we thought was gay or lesbian (no one was out back then: not a single person). And you know what? We came up with pretty much identical lists.

And so many people from my past have turned out to be gay or lesbian now. It's like we see something in each other subconsciously--we seek out our 'differentness'.

According to Jung, that is called intuition, and some people develop this intuition in a deeper way. You should realize that some kind of personalities need clear and solid proof in order to say something, and that's the reason why some guys cannot perceive differences among people. Lube, you're not seeking out anything special, I am almost sure that besides recognizing gay people, you're the one in your group that always sees something that people cannot see.

 

[G-Lexington]

>>>And despite all the "I'm straight acting" talk, most gay men are pretty darn gay (myself included). And their male friends tend to be gay, gay-acting, or closet cases in my experience.

Oh, get off the fucking high horse, Lube. Are you seriously saying that I can throw all my friends into one of three categories: faggots, straights-who-act-like-faggots and faggots-who-are-too-chicken-shit-to-admit-it? And if, by some sort of miracle of fate, one of my friends actually IS straight, it reflects somehow on me? Either negatively, because I'm hanging around with a boring breeder, or positively, because I deign to devote some of my gloirous gayness to their wretched lives?

Because that's how I read your post. No matter how many winks and LOLs you want to couch it in.

The truth of the matter is I have more straight friends than gay. Not because I'm self-loathing, and can't stand to hang out with other "queers". But because I have friends across the spectrum. I have gay friends, sure, but my social activities extend out beyond my sexuality. I don't just go to drag shows and pride parades. Yes, we tend to have friends who like the stuff we like, but the key word there is "tend". I'm not stuck with homosexual, rock-listening, cartoon-loving, indoor lacrosse fans who don't like movies and love to read. Because if I were, I'd be pretty fucking lonely. Yes, I've got gay friends. Straight-acting ones, gay-acting ones, drag queens, you name it. I also have straight friends. Are they "gay-acting"? A couple, maybe, depending on how much you want to bend your definitions. A is kind of soft-spoken and likes the arts, so sure, let's call him gay-acting. D likes to shop for clothes, so sure - closet fag. G works with rock musicians, wears beat-up T-shirts, mainly listens to metal...wait, he doesn't like sports much, so I guess the G stands for 'gay". And K works in auto parts, married with kids, dresses like a slob, is a NASCAR fan...well, only one option there - he's a closet case. Hope his wife bears the news well.

These aren't "random encounters", either. These are my closest friends. And I don't think I'm all that unusual. Yes, gay people tend to have more gay friends than straight people do. Yes, gayness can run through a family. But you're not just "painting with broad swaths" - you're whitewashing.

Lex

 

[Alex00]

I have gay friends, sure, but my social activities extend out beyond my sexuality. I don't just go to drag shows and pride parades. Yes, we tend to have friends who like the stuff we like, but the key word there is "tend".
(. . .)These aren't "random encounters", either. These are my closest friends. And I don't think I'm all that unusual. Yes, gay people tend to have more gay friends than straight people do. Yes, gayness can run through a family. But you're not just "painting with broad swaths" - you're whitewashing.
Lex

Gotta add that if you are a person that lives in the common, connected world and not in the alternative B-side of the world, statistics say that you are likely to have more straight people of every kind, profession and colour around you, because most people in the world is straight.
Agree with you Lex, it's a bit cut on the bias to label people that way- every single person is an exception to the rule in something.

 

[bounder]

>>>And despite all the "I'm straight acting" talk, most gay men are pretty darn gay (myself included). And their male friends tend to be gay, gay-acting, or closet cases in my experience.

Oh, get off the fucking high horse, Lube. Are you seriously saying that I can throw all my friends into one of three categories: faggots, straights-who-act-like-faggots and faggots-who-are-too-chicken-shit-to-admit-it? And if, by some sort of miracle of fate, one of my friends actually IS straight, it reflects somehow on me? Either negatively, because I'm hanging around with a boring breeder, or positively, because I deign to devote some of my gloirous gayness to their wretched lives?

Because that's how I read your post. No matter how many winks and LOLs you want to couch it in.

Lex

I think the nail has been hit on the head, rather squarely in fact.

 

[Telstra]

mmmm Do closet cases attract closet cases?

Maybe !!! or maybe not.

 

[Lube]

Nothing you described there screams out gay to me...well, maybe the poodle.

Really? Because it doesn't get any more GLBT than a Jeep Wrangler, VW, Audi, BMW, or Subaru (or a convertible of any kind). And everyone from flamers to the leatherest of leathermen often have little white dogs. Surely you've seen that? Opera, Broadway, 80's/dance/disco music, and Barbra (Streisand), Madonna, and Kylie are very very very gay.

I want to emphasize that not every gay guy likes all of those things. But add them up, and the more checkmarks you have, the more likely you are to be gay.

Don't you think Subaru advertises so heavily in The Advocate for a reason?

Lube I see where you are coming from and to an extent you are right. But I think there are other guys out there are the biggest mind fucks that confuse themselves and everyone else around them. But I do get the jist of what you are saying and pretty much agree.

Thanks. Yes, there are confused guys out there. And, hopefully, as the stigma of being GLBT dissipates, they will become less confused and more true to themselves, whatever it may be.

That point is quite interesting cause in addition to likes and common things, a lot of friendships are born from more deep things, like way of life, thinking, etc. Furthermore, I'd dare to say that most reflective people tend to that kind of friendship. In my case, my friends are waaay different from me in certain things, but somehow we're still kind of the same.

That's what I meant by world view. Sometimes it is the little things that mark someone as gay-ish (car brands, as mentioned above). But even ignoring that, looking at a higher level, people hang out with other people with similar world views. I'm an atheist and tend to have friends who are atheist or agnostic or spiritual or somewhat religious, but the religion doesn't drive their lives. I couldn't stand being around someone who let religion rule their life. It doesn't fit my world view, and I don't want to hang around someone like that.

According to Jung, that is called intuition, and some people develop this intuition in a deeper way. You should realize that some kind of personalities need clear and solid proof in order to say something, and that's the reason why some guys cannot perceive differences among people. Lube, you're not seeking out anything special, I am almost sure that besides recognizing gay people, you're the one in your group that always sees something that people cannot see.

Like dead people?

Just trying to lighten things up a bit here.

Thanks. I don't think I have ESP or Super-Gaydar® or anything, but maybe I'm more perceptive than the average Joe--or Sebastian.

 

[Lube]

Because that's how I read your post. No matter how many winks and LOLs you want to couch it in.

These aren't "random encounters", either. These are my closest friends. And I don't think I'm all that unusual. Yes, gay people tend to have more gay friends than straight people do. Yes, gayness can run through a family. But you're not just "painting with broad swaths" - you're whitewashing.

I do think you're misinterpreting my posts. I think if you read post #4 with an open mind--as if a good friend of yours were saying it--I think it would come across differently. I really do.

Secondly, let's turn this on its head:

Think about the people who aren't your good friends. Not necessarily your enemies (although you can include them if you want), but even just acquaintances from work or the club or pub or whatever:

Why aren't these people good friends of yours?

Is it their hair? Their looks? Their attitude? World view? The way they treat other people? Age? Gender? Interests? I'm not saying there's any one answer; it's just a thought exercise about what makes someone become a good friend of yours.

Why isn't that perfectly friendly receptionist your best friend?

Gotta add that if you are a person that lives in the common, connected world and not in the alternative B-side of the world, statistics say that you are likely to have more straight people of every kind, profession and colour around you, because most people in the world is straight.
Agree with you Lex, it's a bit cut on the bias to label people that way- every single person is an exception to the rule in something.

Yes, as I've said, no one is the embodiment of a stereotype/caricature. Not every gay man likes Madonna or Cher or Broadway or opera. But they like enough things that other gay men like, that advertisers can target market them. Look at the ads in Out and The Advocate. Aren't they significantly different than the ads in Time magazine? And I'm not talking about the sex phone lines. I'm talking mainstream advertising in the front of the mags.

How can advertisers know what makes us tick, but we can't see it in ourselves?

 

[Alex00]

Yes, good point, but as I said before, you're gifted with a good intuition. Albeit this skill is not always accurate, you can understand that is really useful.
But not everyone has got this ability developed. By the way. consider that intuition has always been taken as something feminine, and sometimes men try to supress this. Some people will never need intuition that much in their lives or workplace. Advertising is a job that needs creativity and intuition, so that's why advertisers are keen on this thing of reading others' minds.
I understand your position of trying to open some eyes. While you'll be able to make a lot of people aware of this, there will be some dudes that will not get it at all. You are a quite perceptive person- that means that you're not in the average level.

 

[spencer]

I have friends from work that I have hung out with that are republican bible thumpers. If they knew I were gay, they wouldn't invite me out. One of them, their family ostracized their uncle for living a gay lifestyle.

 

[martin6]

I've been in denial all along!

I watch NASCAR religiously, enjoy a good beer (or even a bad beer), drive a Mustang GT and loooove the loud noise the engine makes, my fanciest attire is currently a plain T-shirt and jeans, have few gay friends, and currently sleep on the floor of my studio apartment because I'm too cheap to buy a new inflatable mattress.

My God, I'm straight! Oh but I guess I used to own a Subaru WRX, so that's pretty gay.


For real, though, I'm NOT the exception to the rule. You know how to tell if someone is gay? When they tell you "I'm gay."

 

[Willie Boy]

Yes I believe closet cases do attract closet cases. Every time I put a case in my closet for a day the other cases are drawn to it throughout the night and I find them all in a pile touching each other in the morning.

 

[Alex00]

Hahahahahahah good one!

 

[Willie Boy]

Glad you liked it. Took me all of five seconds to come up with it as I read the title of this thread. Nice to know my time wasn't wasted.