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Do You Believe In An Afterlife?

Tantric-Master said:
Yes. The "spiritual" stuff is indeed very very interesting and absorbing. Unfortunately, as you duly noted, the churches and most organized "religious" organizations are not particularly helpful since they are geared towards the masses and making money. Religion can be very profitable.

You might enjoy this video by Alan Watts about "religions" -- "They made it all up".


Then we can move on to the real spiritual stuff which simply requires undoing all the conditioned garbage that we've been fed.
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Alan Watts was an intelligent religious philosopher. He was especially known for his knowledge and views of Eastern religions, but I think his insights on Christianity were no less profound. Have you ever known someone who spotted a fraud, and immediately called out the fraud for their bullshit no matter what the fraudster came up with, even though everybody else seemed to fall for it? Well, I see Alan Watts as having the same relationship with traditional Christianity: He saw through Christianity's bullshit.

As for where the video is going, Alan Watts quotes Jesus saying "I have said you are gods," meaning everybody, not just one person.
 
Araucaria said:
As for where the video is going, Alan Watts quotes Jesus saying "I have said you are gods," meaning everybody, not just one person.
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kk
Araucaria said:
Alan Watts was an intelligent religious philosopher. He was especially known for his knowledge and views of Eastern religions, but I think his insights on Christianity were no less profound. Have you ever known someone who spotted a fraud, and immediately called out the fraud for their bullshit no matter what the fraudster came up with, even though everybody else seemed to fall for it? Well, I see Alan Watts as having the same relationship with traditional Christianity: He saw through Christianity's bullshit.

As for where the video is going, Alan Watts quotes Jesus saying "I have said you are gods," meaning everybody, not just one person.
Click to expand...
I was once somewhat drawn to Alan Watts ... and his intelligent critique of certain aspects of Christianity appears to be right on target. However, having met masters from various wisdom traditions ... especially the "hidden masters" .... my focus shifted away from him rather quickly.

Nonetheless, you correctly pointed out "where the video is going" ... namely towards the quote from Jesus "I have said you are gods". Your interpretation that this is "meaning everybody, not just one person" is consistent with my own understanding of the Reality. Therein lies the importance of the eastern practices leading to discovery of one's "true nature" ("you are gods" may be an understatement ;) ). Once one discovers one's "true nature", the question of "afterlife" does not even arise.

As for Watts, this article about reconsidering Watts may be of interest.

tricycle.org

Alan Watts Reconsidered

Alan Watts remarkable journey from the young student who contacted the Buddhist Lodge to the independent scholar who helped introduce the East and Buddhism to a whole generation of Americans.
tricycle.org tricycle.org
 
Oh Dear.

Another one who saw the light that saw the light.

And manages to say nothing except what he 'feels' and imagines consciousness to be.

Probably did Ayahuasca once at a retreat.

​

​

 
metta said:

I changed my views studying near-death experiences; consciousness isn't as we think.​


MSN

www.msn.com
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That's a good article written by some one who is "scientifically" investigating the nature of consciousness. He is correct that the University of Virginia's Division of Perceptual Studies has indeed done much research on this subject. (YouTube videos by Dr. Bruce Greyson of the UVa program are quite compelling.) The author's article, however, strongly suggests that he himself has not experienced such phenomena directly himself. Nonetheless, investigations such as the ones that he is doing are a great first step.

As I've mentioned before, my own NDE (near death experience) many years ago left me convinced that there is an expanded consciousness to which all can attune through various "undoing methodologies". That expanded consciousness reveals another vantage point from which all things literally are possible. My NDE also convinced gave me insights into the body-mind-spirit connection and the nature of healing as I emerged from my 3 day "irreversible coma" NDE completely SYMPTOM-FREE to the shock of the medical staff at the hospital.

As one investigates more deeply as the author of that article seems to be doing, one meets people who can do such things (but who refuse to perform for the general public) and , eventually, one starts to have such experiences for one's self at which point one no longer needs convincing.

QUESTION FOR YOU: Has this article changed any of YOUR views regarding near-death-experiences and the nature of consciousness?
 
rareboy said:
Oh Dear.

Another one who saw the light that saw the light.

And manages to say nothing except what he 'feels' and imagines consciousness to be.

Probably did Ayahuasca once at a retreat.

​

​

Click to expand...
Well put ---- "another one who saw the light that saw the light". 😂👌

As I mentioned in my post, I suspect that the author has not had direct experiences himself ... but I can't rule out him having "done Ayahuasca once at a retreat". 😂
 
Tantric-Master said:
What is your current view on near death experiences and the nature of consciousness ... after reading that article which you posted?
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I don't really have an opinion on them. I would need to see scientific proof to believe it. I have heard many stories. I have a friend that believes that when he meditates he can leave his body and travel over the place.

The human mind can also be illogical. I think the human brain is wired for survival more than logic. For example, tribalism, which can be positive in some ways and very bad in others.

So it is important to be careful when making judgements. The human brain can make up stuff to compensate for its errors. I see that with people with dementia. It can make up stuff and believe in things that are not true, even when facts are presented, to support its tribe. See MAGA supporters as one example. Also look at the various religions.

I believe that human beings do not possess any special soul more than any other living being/animal. I believe that humans (homosapiens) are part of the animal kingdom, not separate from it. Genetics can prove that pretty clearly.
 
metta said:
I don't really have an opinion on them. I would need to see scientific proof to believe it. I have heard many stories. I have a friend that believes that when he meditates he can leave his body and travel over the place.

The human mind can also be illogical. I think the human brain is wired for survival more than logic. For example, tribalism, which can be positive in some ways and very bad in others.

So it is important to be careful when making judgements. The human brain can make up stuff to compensate for its errors. I see that with people with dementia. It can make up stuff and believe in things that are not true, even when facts are presented, to support its tribe. See MAGA supporters as one example. Also look at the various religions.

I believe that human beings do not possess any special soul more than any other living being/animal. I believe that humans (homosapiens) are part of the animal kingdom, not separate from it. Genetics can prove that pretty clearly.
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Your position is quite reasonable in that you "would need to see scientific proof to believe it". I too was once a similar skeptic on such matters....until my near death experience when I saw a vast panorama from a different vantage point ("traveling" in the context of your post) with verifiable sightings. Unfortunately for you, the advanced beings who do such things seem to have no particular interest in proving anything to anyone. As a matter of fact, in the east, it is considered inappropriate to attract a following or attention by performing "miracles". In addition, powers (siddhis) such as leaving the body and traveling all over the place are duly noted in Pantanjali's Yoga Sutras as a natural byproduct of meditation ... with the warning that seeking to acquire and/or display such powers is actually a hindrance to further evolving and should be avoided.

Your points on the mind making up stuff and believing in things that are not true ... are very valid even with people without dementia who "just believe" blindly and project their beliefs into "visions".

A visionary experience during my near death experience (completely alien to my Roman Catholic background and hence not a projection) served as a catalyst for my investigation of eastern meditation practices ... as meditation at that time seemed to be the way (for me, not necessarily the only way for all) to get back to that NDE vantage point among other things. I am glad that I was intuitively drawn to meditation.

I also agree with your position that "human beings do not possess any special soul more than any other living being/animal".
 
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