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Do You Believe In An Afterlife?

Tantric-Master said:
www.newtoninstitute.org

Dr. Michael Newton - Michael Newton Institute

Dr. Michael Newton was a highly acclaimed international spiritual regressionist, who discovered how to enable people to access the wisdom of the spirit world and their higher guidance whilst living their lives.Known as a pioneer of afterlife exploration, his dedicated research over 30 years...
www.newtoninstitute.org www.newtoninstitute.org

EXCERPT:

Dr. Michael Newton held a doctorate in Counselling Psychology, was a certified Master Hypnotherapist, and a member of the American Counselling Association. He was also a practicing Psychologist who held positions in the faculty of higher educational institutions as a teacher in Los Angeles. In his lifetime he also spent time as a corporate consultant, and worked as a behavioral counsellor and group therapy director for community mental health centers and spiritual renewal organisations in cooperation with hospital and social service agencies.
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Thanks, but I had already read that page and do not consider that credentials. It's practically hearsay.

Credentials would be a verifiable biography, i.e., "Michael Newton studied at Penn State University, taking his doctorate in Clinical Psychology in 1990. He has won the XYZ award for Blah, blah, blah, and was named a Senior Fellow at the OPQ Consortium for Hypnotherapy in Los Angeles, CA in 1998.

His career began in the Orange County Mental Health Clinic and progressed to Head of Psychology at the Perkins Institute.

While heading the institute, Dr. Newton taught as adjunct at the SoCal Leingruber School of Advanced Psychology.

Searching the internet provided ZERO independent references to Dr. Newton's biography or his credentials. Everything is from his own institute. The blurb provided is little more than an anecdotal reference of self-promotion, and vague beyond words.

I am completely open to believing in the power of hypnosis as a therapy, but if a doctor is a published author with such a grandiose claim as to posit that he can provide evidence of pre-birth memories, then there should be all sorts of peer acclaim, objective source references to his work, and researchable abstracts, etc. I can't find any of that.

If I were to accept the late doctor's writing based on nothing more than his own subjective self-description and claims, how is that different than listening to a religious leader or guru making similar claims?
 
rareboy said:
Too much focus on what comes after instead of what comes now.
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Great, now I have to find my copy of The Color Purple.

"Did you tell Harpo to beat me!?":)

What was it she said? "You ought to bash Mister's head and think about heaven later."
 
Tantric-Master said:
Specifically, what type of empirical evidence would you need? Realistically, what would actually convince you that life exists after physical death?
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Observable, verifiable, repeatable evidence. Evidence which is tested and confirmed by multiple qualified people under controlled conditions. Evidence which all other evidence must conform to, in order to confirm its veracity using standard scientific methods.

In other words, "Show me the beef.".
 
NotHardUp1 said:
Thanks, but I had already read that page and do not consider that credentials. It's practically hearsay.

Credentials would be a verifiable biography, i.e., "Michael Newton studied at Penn State University, taking his doctorate in Clinical Psychology in 1990. He has won the XYZ award for Blah, blah, blah, and was named a Senior Fellow at the OPQ Consortium for Hypnotherapy in Los Angeles, CA in 1998.

His career began in the Orange County Mental Health Clinic and progressed to Head of Psychology at the Perkins Institute.

While heading the institute, Dr. Newton taught as adjunct at the SoCal Leingruber School of Advanced Psychology.

Searching the internet provided ZERO independent references to Dr. Newton's biography or his credentials. Everything is from his own institute. The blurb provided is little more than an anecdotal reference of self-promotion, and vague beyond words.

I am completely open to believing in the power of hypnosis as a therapy, but if a doctor is a published author with such a grandiose claim as to posit that he can provide evidence of pre-birth memories, then there should be all sorts of peer acclaim, objective source references to his work, and researchable abstracts, etc. I can't find any of that.

If I were to accept the late doctor's writing based on nothing more than his own subjective self-description and claims, how is that different than listening to a religious leader or guru making similar claims?
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Your points are quite valid regarding Dr. Newton. Take his book for whatever it's worth to you ... or simply ignore it.

I recently attended a continuing education class by Dr. David Spiegel, MD/Psychiatrist who is a Professor of Medicine at Stanford Medical School. In his lecture, he pointed out that hypnosis (as well as meditation or any intense focused concentration technique) quiets the default mode network (ego, conditioning, whatever) and seemingly extraordinary things such as physical healing as well as revelations can happen in that state. Hypnosis is just one way. I am personally inclined to meditation. Each can explore this subject in one's own preferred manner.

Our backgrounds are probably different in that I had a mind-boggling,life transforming NDE early in life which led me to encounters with extraordinary beings. Each of us investigates such things in one's own way based on our experiences and interactions. I have no doubts whatsoever about the existence of the afterlife IN SOME FORM.

NOTE: I have no vested interest in promoting any theories but rely strictly on validating direct experiences. I just thought that Dr. Newton's book was quite interesting and consistent in many ways with my understanding though I express myself with very different terminology than Dr. Newton.
 
Thanks.

I'm sure meditation is beneficial.

The problem I see in accounts is that perception is involved. And the perception of a person, for instance, consuming peyote, may be enhanced, or it may be delusional. When describing images, people, events, or memories when they are allegedly historical, one would ultimately need some kind of proof that would be indisputable evidence, else the perceived revelations could just as well be fantasies.

There has been much study done of near death experiences, and the whole going through a tunnel thing has been debated about it's physical cause or supernatural, as well as the "life flashing before my eyes" aspect.

It's hard to come down on one side or another without more widely established evidence.

Whether Dr. Newton's conclusions are bona fide or not, the lack of any apparent effort by his institute to have his research corroburated is diminishing the credibility. It leaves it very much in the zone with Scientology and its thetans.
 
NotHardUp1 said:
Thanks.

I'm sure meditation is beneficial.

The problem I see in accounts is that perception is involved. And the perception of a person, for instance, consuming peyote, may be enhanced, or it may be delusional. When describing images, people, events, or memories when they are allegedly historical, one would ultimately need some kind of proof that would be indisputable evidence, else the perceived revelations could just as well be fantasies.

There has been much study done of near death experiences, and the whole going through a tunnel thing has been debated about it's physical cause or supernatural, as well as the "life flashing before my eyes" aspect.

It's hard to come down on one side or another without more widely established evidence.

Whether Dr. Newton's conclusions are bona fide or not, the lack of any apparent effort by his institute to have his research corroburated is diminishing the credibility. It leaves it very much in the zone with Scientology and its thetans.
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Once again, your points are quite valid. Regarding meditation, it is indeed beneficial in probing the depths of one's consciousness. However, as you duly noted, "the problem I see in accounts is that perception is involved". My understanding is that meditative accounts differ primarily because the speakers have not completely purified themselves and hence traces of their beliefs color their experiences. In addition, translating even such experiences into words presents obvious challenges. As you also noted, the perception of a person consuming psychedelics such as peyote for example, can be even more colored by one's beliefs and conditioning. However, even with the distortions introduced by traces of conditioned beliefs, there is unquestionably some commonality from which to draw at least some conclusions regarding this matter.

My experience has been that virtually all the so-called gurus, priests, etc. have some traces of conditioning coloring their stated experiences and even the more purified beings are challenged by communicating their experiences in words. There are, however, the "hidden masters" who have very few disciples and appear outwardly in most cases as very ordinary people. They understandably avoid the spotlight since, as one sage explicitly stated, "there are numerous primary teachers to teach the alphabet". Those primary teachers are often business persons who charge money for their "services". LOL When one is fortunate to meet a truly purified being (or one who as purified as possible and yet understandable to a more limited entity), communication is often done in complete and utter silence telepathically. Such communication is getting closer to the truth. I recall such a communication with a Taoist Master in Chengdu, China, who was inaccessible to the masses. All my "questions" were answered during a 3-hour silent one-on-one session and even then there was only so much I could digest at the time due to my own personal limitations. My sense is that he could have gone even deeper if I had been capable of receiving more.

Since my own near death experience, I have read extensively about the near death experiences of others. More often than not, as I think you were suggesting, the NDEs seem to be projections of one's own belief systems. Christians seem to have vision of Jesus or angels or Mother Mary. Hindus have visions of Krishna or Ram. Believers in other religions tend to have visions of beings from their own personal belief systems. In my case, my vision was completely alien to my Roman Catholic belief system and turned me eastward towards meditation. My vision was definitely not based on my belief system and that is why it was so mind-boggling and life-transforming.


FYI, I was a Phi Beta Kappa in college and intellectually-challenged since it was difficult at one time to go past thinking and intellectualism. My current understanding based on direct validating experiences is that, when one quiets the mind and abides in pure alert thought-free awareness, one gravitates towards an expanded consciousness (Jung called it the collective unconscious; others call it God-consciousness; etc.) and knows intuitively without traditional thought thereby getting a better understanding of the nature of the Reality which includes the mysteries of life and so-called "death".


I'm not sure what else to add. You alone can decide whether this makes any sense to you and/or whether it stirs you to further investigation in a manner that resonates well with you. What drew me to my teacher was her point that "if a teacher does not point you to the direct (validating) experiences, then go elsewhere". If one does not feel confident with the words of others, as I did with an "infallible" Pope whom I didn't think was so "infallible", one must go and discover directly the nature of the Reality ... as best as possible .. in the way that resonates most. I chose purification and meditation.
 
In the end all is dust.
 
I am perfectly fine with the prospect of not waking up, both literally and transcendentally. On this side of oblivion or Judgement, I happily repair to my betters:


If indoctrination or cultural conditioning is the reason, rather than the Divine, I am fine with that, too, and trust each fellow creature to respond or not as he is inclined.
 
rareboy said:
Too much focus on what comes after instead of what comes now.
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In my experience, that is more of an outsider's perspective of religion, not someone who has attended church and participated in the life of the church. Can't speak for mosques or synagogues, although I have attended them only a few times. Most sermons and homilies and lessons are on day-to-day life, and how we treat others, and how we regard material possessions.

Churches I have attended and supported did not preach on the afterlife or spend significant time teaching about it. The focus was on a moral code, a social imperative, and included centrally, aid to the poor, and community support. Churches I have known personally were Calvinist, Evangelical, Liturgical, and Episcopal, variously.

They sponsored children's activities, including sports teams and recreational trips. They sponsored and hosted food banks, free clothes "stores", shelters, scout troops, hay rides, Heifer International, voter registration drives and poll volunteers, English as Second Language Instruction, LGBTQ support groups, Alcoholics Anonymous groups, Narcotics Anonymous groups, Habitat for Humanity chapters, disaster relief teams, exercise and yoga classes, public concerts of various genres, farmers markets, Halloween carnivals, spaghetti dinners, Valentines Day banquets, senior activities, scholarships, tutoring and donations to local school supply drives, winterization and home repairs for the elderly, transportation to clinics and hospitals, community gardens, art shows and sales, craft fairs, provided services and facilities for weddings & funerals, and supported legislation for social justice.

Religion is guilty of many things, but it is also responsible for many positive things in a community.

What I consistently found in most churches was a propensity to talk about what "those people" were doing somewhere without "those people" being present to answer. I hear exactly the same thing in reverse from anti-religious people, imputing various things from yesteryear or some worst examples rather than the typical. It's very much like the political divide in the US: both the right and the left exaggerate the ills of the other, both the right and the left lie about the truth, and both the right and the left are right about some of their claims.

Thinking people are sick of the demands from both sides for polarization.

Pogroms are not the solution.
 
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