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Do you believe in God ?

This intrigues me and I would love to hear about your experiences.

On the first experience, when I was in my twenties, I was on a week-end religious retreat. There was a picture on the wall in my room of Christ knocking on a door which was on the opposite side of the room from the door to the room. I had seen this picture before. When I was coming back from a meeting and opened the door of my room the image of this picture flew across the room and hit me in the face. I assumed that God wanted me to become a priest. I immediately started to pray and cry and ask God to take away this request because I didn't want to become a priest. After a couple of minutes I realized that this was the wrong prayer and asked God to help me accept his wishes. Then I felt better and I never became a priest.

The second time I had been laid off at the age of 58 during a recession. To put it mildly, I was trying to find employment unsuccessfully for several months and my benefits were slowly approaching a cut-off date and it was stressing me out. I was praying to God to help me find employment. Then the idea popped into my head that I would find employment in the fall. I didn't know if it was an answer from God or just a thought of mine. When fall came and I hadn't found a job, I prayed to God that it was already fall and I still hadn't found a job and I asked God when I would find employment. Then the idea popped into my head that it would be in November, like it was an answer from God. November came and I still was not working and I kept praying to God. Around the last week of November I received a job offer and it was the only job offer I received in 9 months and I accepted it.
 
The second time I had been laid off at the age of 58 during a recession. To put it mildly, I was trying to find employment unsuccessfully for several months and my benefits were slowly approaching a cut-off date and it was stressing me out. I was praying to God to help me find employment. Then the idea popped into my head that I would find employment in the fall. I didn't know if it was an answer from God or just a thought of mine. When fall came and I hadn't found a job, I prayed to God that it was already fall and I still hadn't found a job and I asked God when I would find employment. Then the idea popped into my head that it would be in November, like it was an answer from God. November came and I still was not working and I kept praying to God. Around the last week of November I received a job offer and it was the only job offer I received in 9 months and I accepted it.

Amazing.
 
I do not believe there is a specific god. However, I do believe we are all a part of the singularity we know as Life. Or, as presented in "Star Wars", "The Force".

The "Higher Power" that we all sense, some more than others, is "God" speaking to us. We call it intuition. (o) (group)
 
I do not believe there is a specific god. However, I do believe we are all a part of the singularity we know as Life. Or, as presented in "Star Wars", "The Force".

The "Higher Power" that we all sense, some more than others, is "God" speaking to us. We call it intuition. (o) (group)

I understand what you are saying and think that it is possible that we are all a part of God and will keep my mind open to that possibility that we are all part of the God force, but will not believe it at this time and continue to believe in a separate God for now. Thanks for your input.
 
I don't consider myself an agnostic or atheist, but I'm not conventional, either. I believe there is an energy, a soul, a life force that goes on after physical death, and we are connected by it. I could be wrong, but if after death there is nothing, it will not matter... there will be nothing to feel or see. If there is something, it will be a wonderful new world to explore in itself. So I'm hopeful rather than certain, never want to be arrogant enough to presume and insist. I guess I don't have great faith, but I do believe if there is a God, that entity wants us to explore and grow and consider as many possibilities as we can fathom... some people may sense it, may connect to it a lot better than others and to some to may seem non existent.
 
Yes, I'm Christian but I don't believe in organized religion. I believe anything that stifles man's journey in search of God to be a problem. I believe organized religion does that.

I don't have a problem with anyone that is part of an organized religion either.
 
Yes, I'm Christian but I don't believe in organized religion. I believe anything that stifles man's journey in search of God to be a problem. I believe organized religion does that.

I don't have a problem with anyone that is part of an organized religion either.
I'd imagine you follow the bible and that's a product of organized religion. So the thing that informs you of the religion would not exist without the very thing you think stifles it. Doesn't that seem contradictory?
 
The older I get, the more screwed up the world gets, added to the total, absolute, complete, stone-wall silence from above about anything; then the less I believe God exists; or if God does exist the less I believe he cares.

Hey up there, everything is a mess down here. Show up. How about some actual hands-on guidance? We need you.
 
I'd imagine you follow the bible and that's a product of organized religion. So the thing that informs you of the religion would not exist without the very thing you think stifles it. Doesn't that seem contradictory?

Actually, no. I don't believe in sola scriptura either. That's mainly an evangelical/fundamentalism belief also practiced within mainline Protestantism. Given how they have treated the GLBT community as a whole, I have no love for those beliefs either. The bible is not infallible. Many mainline Protestants believe in sola scriptura but a few denominations had taken aspects of Catholicism with them. Namely, the Anglicans and Lutherans both practice the Eurcharist.

So I asked myself this. Why were only certain books (writings over a period of time) accepted to be part of the makeup of the Bible, yet other books, which are in the Vatican library, not included? Why do Catholics retain within their bibles books which have been rejected by Protestants as heretical but as canon by the Catholic Church? Why are there so many Christian denominations, denominations that read the same bible, by the way, but they cannot agree on interpretation?

When I began to see how Christians couldn't agree on interpretation, condemning one another as heretical because of sola scriptura or tradition, I found myself wanting to breakaway from all that mess. In my search I was becoming more spiritual in my beliefs but retained the only two tenents that encompass all of what I was finding on my journey; love God and loving one another. Nothing else mattered. Tradition didn't matter. Trying to figure out the book of Revelation didn't matter. I was in the here and now. And I wanted to make a difference in my life and with others with God himself guiding my life and not have the trappings of organized religion.

If there are people that are happy within organized religion, I'm happy for them. It's not for me.
 
Yes, I do; I was raised Catholic ... tried the Espispicoialian Church that welcomes all, and it didn't feel right. I even attended a few open Mosque and Native American Sweat Lodge ceremonies, but I still can't find my niche'.

I have a quite a few friends of several races that say that they don't need a pile of bricks (churches or mosques) or seasonal feasts (Native Americans) to believe. It's all more important that we do good for (not well in front of or before) others!

The most spiritual and giving of people I know do not belong to any organized religion, and on the other hand ... well, we all know.
 
I don't go to church but I do believe in God and their is a heaven too and I'm catholic too
 
The most spiritual and giving of people I know do not belong to any organized religion, and on the other hand ... well, we all know.

I agree - this is also my experience.
 
I don't go to church but I do believe in God and their is a heaven too and I'm catholic too

Former Catholic here. I wasn't raised in any church. I attended Baptist, Foursquare (Pentecostal), Lutheran, Seventh Day (briefly), almost became LDS (mom didn't want to give up the cig), but I eventually became Catholic at eighteen. Went to many churches growing up but never stayed in one place.

I'm just a spiritual person now.
 
I'd imagine you follow the bible and that's a product of organized religion. So the thing that informs you of the religion would not exist without the very thing you think stifles it. Doesn't that seem contradictory?

The Bible a product of organized religion.... interesting proposition. For the Old Testament, pretty much; for the New, I'd say the writings were a product of barely organized religion and that organized religion was a result of the writings.
 
Actually, no. I don't believe in sola scriptura either. That's mainly an evangelical/fundamentalism belief also practiced within mainline Protestantism. Given how they have treated the GLBT community as a whole, I have no love for those beliefs either. The bible is not infallible. Many mainline Protestants believe in sola scriptura but a few denominations had taken aspects of Catholicism with them. Namely, the Anglicans and Lutherans both practice the Eurcharist.

So I asked myself this. Why were only certain books (writings over a period of time) accepted to be part of the makeup of the Bible, yet other books, which are in the Vatican library, not included? Why do Catholics retain within their bibles books which have been rejected by Protestants as heretical but as canon by the Catholic Church? Why are there so many Christian denominations, denominations that read the same bible, by the way, but they cannot agree on interpretation?

When I began to see how Christians couldn't agree on interpretation, condemning one another as heretical because of sola scriptura or tradition, I found myself wanting to breakaway from all that mess. In my search I was becoming more spiritual in my beliefs but retained the only two tenents that encompass all of what I was finding on my journey; love God and loving one another. Nothing else mattered. Tradition didn't matter. Trying to figure out the book of Revelation didn't matter. I was in the here and now. And I wanted to make a difference in my life and with others with God himself guiding my life and not have the trappings of organized religion.

If there are people that are happy within organized religion, I'm happy for them. It's not for me.

First we have to define what "canon" is: the term means a rule or measure. So what was the rule? It was simple: what is read in the churches. What we now call the canon began with individual churches/congregations writing to each other and saying, "These are the books we read in church during worship; what do you read?" And if the second church didn't have all the ones the first church listed, they'd ask for copies, and if they had some they read in church that the first didn't list, they'd send copies along. It didn't take long before all the churches within a couple of days' travel had the same lists, and when they got together to discuss issues -- what came to be called "councils" -- they'd repeat the process, sending their list over to other churches that met in their own local area councils. Before the end of the second century the lists were virtually identical everywhere, but regional councils were still comparing lists, and by the end of the third century the process had gotten up to the councils held by the various patriarchs.

So when Athanasius and others sent out their lists of what was being read for worship in their churches, they weren't issuing decrees to be followed, they were issuing lists that met the measure of "what is read in the churches" -- the decision of what was recognized didn't come from the top down but from the bottom up, and the level of agreement between churches across the Roman Empire and outside it as well was pretty amazing; the Hebrew scriptures were accepted unanimously, along with all but seven of the New Testament books. Those seven, noted as "spoken against" because some (or many) churches didn't approve them, were included as being read in the churches, but they were kept on a distinct second level, and that level came with a restriction: no doctrine was to be founded on those books; they could only be used to support doctrine founded on the undisputed books. The same was true of the "Old Testament" books that had been originally written in Greek; they were read in the churches, but not to be used to establish doctrine, only to support what the unanimously-approved books taught. And those Old Testament books written originally in Greek are what have come to be called "Apocrypha" by many, or "Deuterocanonical", meaning "second canon".

And there's a huge divide between churches who do you all those books in church and those who don't: those who do turn out to be the ones who, as you say, "practice the Eucharist". They also tend to be the ones who honor the church Fathers, which is a no-brainer for anyone who reads the New Testament and actually pays attention: Jesus promised that the Holy Spirit would lead the apostles into "all truth", and Paul explained that the Spirit gives teachers to the church -- apparently giving the means through which the promise Jesus gave takes place. So who are those teachers sent by the Spirit to expound truth? That's a question the radical Reformation as well as most Calvinists can't give an answer to, since in practice they operate as though Jesus never made such a promise and the Spirit never did what Paul epxlained (or they point to the people who founded their denomination as the fulfillment, ignoring the fact that this must mean that the promises weren't acted on for most of church history!).

That divide shows up in how the different groups treat the term "sola scriptura": those who essentially ignore the Fathers treat it as meaning that the scriptures are the only source needed for understanding theology -- epitomized by the ludicrous "King James Only" movement that teats that one translation as though it was the inspired word, and that no one needs to read any other book at all! But Lutherans and Anglicans understand that "sola scriptura" isn't the answer to "What's the only thing I need to read?" but to the question "What is the final authority in matters theological?"

It's not hard to guess that the astoundingly vast numbers of denominations and sects (and cults) that go their own way and disagree with everyone else come from those who hold to the first treatment of "sola scriptura", a meaning that, if the Reformers had meant it, would have been termed "nuda scriptura", "naked scripture". Since they have in essence rejected the promise of Jesus and the teaching of Paul concerning the action of the Holy Spirit in leading the church universal into truth, they are left with no authority but their own imaginations -- as one Orthodox observer noted, "each leader their own little pope" (and as another Orthodox observer pointed out, the explosion of sects is the fruit of the seed Rome planted", since Rome was the first to assert that all truth came from them). If they don't acknowledge the handful of fully ecumenical councils and don't honor the Fathers, they have no anchor.

And the way Jesus spoke that promise points to why the heirs of the radical Reformation are without an anchor: it isn't a promise to "you", singular -- as just about every one of those sects treats it -- it was a promise to "you" plural ("y'all", for students of New Testament Greek), a promise not to the apostles as individuals but to them jointly as the leaders of the church... not just part of the church, but all of it. And the conditions for that haven't been met since the Council of Chalcedon in 451 A.D., when due more to politics than to a desire for the truth much of the church (now referred to as oriental Orthodox and known as miaphysites) was kicked out of fellowship by the leadership of the church in the Roman Empire. So until all those who honor the Fathers -- who are the ones who "practice the Eucharist" -- get together as equals, the only fulfillment of that promise that we have is found in the early councils and the Fathers.

.
.

BTW, the book called "Revelations" was the lowest on the 'totem pole' of what was read in the churches, since it was objected to on multiple grounds: its authorship was uncertain (the majority held it to be by a different John, John the Elder rather than John the Apostle), its message unclear (not a solid witness to the Gospel, plus hard as heck to understand), and its usefulness in edification (i.e. building a spiritual life) was dubious. I agree with Martin Luther concerning it, that until a Christian has a firm grasp on the Gospels, Paul's letters to the Romans and to the Galatians, Genesis, and the Psalms, "Revelations" should stay closed.

As for being "happy with organized religion", the apostle does admonish us to not forsake gathering with the fellowship of the saints, which essentially boils down to church on Sunday. Being happy with the organized part isn't required, though; I know a number of Christians whose attitude toward organized religion is amusement, but they attend because worship together with others is beneficial to spiritual life.
 
First we have to define what "canon" is: the term means a rule or measure. So what was the rule? It was simple: what is read in the churches. What we now call the canon began with individual churches/congregations writing to each other and saying, "These are the books we read in church during worship; what do you read?" And if the second church didn't have all the ones the first church listed, they'd ask for copies, and if they had some they read in church that the first didn't list, they'd send copies along. It didn't take long before all the churches within a couple of days' travel had the same lists, and when they got together to discuss issues -- what came to be called "councils" -- they'd repeat the process, sending their list over to other churches that met in their own local area councils. Before the end of the second century the lists were virtually identical everywhere, but regional councils were still comparing lists, and by the end of the third century the process had gotten up to the councils held by the various patriarchs.

So when Athanasius and others sent out their lists of what was being read for worship in their churches, they weren't issuing decrees to be followed, they were issuing lists that met the measure of "what is read in the churches" -- the decision of what was recognized didn't come from the top down but from the bottom up, and the level of agreement between churches across the Roman Empire and outside it as well was pretty amazing; the Hebrew scriptures were accepted unanimously, along with all but seven of the New Testament books. Those seven, noted as "spoken against" because some (or many) churches didn't approve them, were included as being read in the churches, but they were kept on a distinct second level, and that level came with a restriction: no doctrine was to be founded on those books; they could only be used to support doctrine founded on the undisputed books. The same was true of the "Old Testament" books that had been originally written in Greek; they were read in the churches, but not to be used to establish doctrine, only to support what the unanimously-approved books taught. And those Old Testament books written originally in Greek are what have come to be called "Apocrypha" by many, or "Deuterocanonical", meaning "second canon".

And there's a huge divide between churches who do you all those books in church and those who don't: those who do turn out to be the ones who, as you say, "practice the Eucharist". They also tend to be the ones who honor the church Fathers, which is a no-brainer for anyone who reads the New Testament and actually pays attention: Jesus promised that the Holy Spirit would lead the apostles into "all truth", and Paul explained that the Spirit gives teachers to the church -- apparently giving the means through which the promise Jesus gave takes place. So who are those teachers sent by the Spirit to expound truth? That's a question the radical Reformation as well as most Calvinists can't give an answer to, since in practice they operate as though Jesus never made such a promise and the Spirit never did what Paul epxlained (or they point to the people who founded their denomination as the fulfillment, ignoring the fact that this must mean that the promises weren't acted on for most of church history!).

That divide shows up in how the different groups treat the term "sola scriptura": those who essentially ignore the Fathers treat it as meaning that the scriptures are the only source needed for understanding theology -- epitomized by the ludicrous "King James Only" movement that teats that one translation as though it was the inspired word, and that no one needs to read any other book at all! But Lutherans and Anglicans understand that "sola scriptura" isn't the answer to "What's the only thing I need to read?" but to the question "What is the final authority in matters theological?"

It's not hard to guess that the astoundingly vast numbers of denominations and sects (and cults) that go their own way and disagree with everyone else come from those who hold to the first treatment of "sola scriptura", a meaning that, if the Reformers had meant it, would have been termed "nuda scriptura", "naked scripture". Since they have in essence rejected the promise of Jesus and the teaching of Paul concerning the action of the Holy Spirit in leading the church universal into truth, they are left with no authority but their own imaginations -- as one Orthodox observer noted, "each leader their own little pope" (and as another Orthodox observer pointed out, the explosion of sects is the fruit of the seed Rome planted", since Rome was the first to assert that all truth came from them). If they don't acknowledge the handful of fully ecumenical councils and don't honor the Fathers, they have no anchor.

And the way Jesus spoke that promise points to why the heirs of the radical Reformation are without an anchor: it isn't a promise to "you", singular -- as just about every one of those sects treats it -- it was a promise to "you" plural ("y'all", for students of New Testament Greek), a promise not to the apostles as individuals but to them jointly as the leaders of the church... not just part of the church, but all of it. And the conditions for that haven't been met since the Council of Chalcedon in 451 A.D., when due more to politics than to a desire for the truth much of the church (now referred to as oriental Orthodox and known as miaphysites) was kicked out of fellowship by the leadership of the church in the Roman Empire. So until all those who honor the Fathers -- who are the ones who "practice the Eucharist" -- get together as equals, the only fulfillment of that promise that we have is found in the early councils and the Fathers.

.
.

BTW, the book called "Revelations" was the lowest on the 'totem pole' of what was read in the churches, since it was objected to on multiple grounds: its authorship was uncertain (the majority held it to be by a different John, John the Elder rather than John the Apostle), its message unclear (not a solid witness to the Gospel, plus hard as heck to understand), and its usefulness in edification (i.e. building a spiritual life) was dubious. I agree with Martin Luther concerning it, that until a Christian has a firm grasp on the Gospels, Paul's letters to the Romans and to the Galatians, Genesis, and the Psalms, "Revelations" should stay closed.

As for being "happy with organized religion", the apostle does admonish us to not forsake gathering with the fellowship of the saints, which essentially boils down to church on Sunday. Being happy with the organized part isn't required, though; I know a number of Christians whose attitude toward organized religion is amusement, but they attend because worship together with others is beneficial to spiritual life.



And that is a major problem I see with the Reformation. The reformers were so eager to breakaway from such rigid tradition and the authority of the Pope, they were willing, no, they had to, disregard most previous church teachings of the last 1500 years as heretical. Some explain that the true church fell into error, after the death of the apostles, and was lost until the Reformation. Those like Luther wanted to reform the church within and not initially break from it. He eventually was excommunicated by the Pope, only after the Reformation set Europe on fire. And it wasn’t until the damage by the Reformation that the Catholic Church started a Counter-Reformation, finally, to correct its errors; one being selling of indulgences to escape the fires of Hell and to solidify its beliefs and the authority of the Catholic Church on Earth (the Pope).


Those that call themselves catholic (small “c”) are those that continue the apostolic succession, tracing itself back to the original twelve apostles. Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Lutherans, Anglicans, and Episcopals all claim apostolic succession. The first two are not Protestant, but are the Western and Eastern Rite Churches, which are still separated today, but are continuing dialog to resolve their differences. I guess you can call the Great West and East Schism of 1054 AD the precursor to the Protestant Reformation. While the Protestant Reformation only affected the Roman Catholic Church, the schism did shake up the universal church as a whole.

Calvinists believe in Predestination. I’ve read John Wesley didn’t believe in Predestination. I also heard they can be a difficult lot to deal with.


Yes, Jesus promised to send the Holy Spirit to the apostles but you’d think that it wasn’t mentioned at all given how these Conservative Christians go on about the Bible being the only authority in all matters of faith and practice. Where does the Holy Spirit fit into that? In fact, I've been on some Christian sites that list their beliefs in the Bible first as infallible, perfect, and without error. Then they list Jesus as the Son of God. Lol! Wouldn’t you call that bibliolatry? So has the Holy Spirit been demoted to raise up the Bible? I've heard many say that the Bible is Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth?

Yes, I'm fully aware being in communion with one another is a good thing. I just no longer feel comfortable in a church. For the last twenty five years I've read too much negativity about our community from other Christians and its left a bad taste in my mouth. I don't feel fully welcome. If I did go back, I'd be Catholic again. Perhaps one of those denominations that broke away from the Roman Catholic Church (Old Catholic) but still has apostolic succession. I do love Mass. That I miss the most.


P.S. I considered at one time converting to Judaism. But I decided not to.
 
First we have to define what "canon" is: the term means a rule or measure. So what was the rule? It was simple: what is read in the churches. What we now call the canon began with individual churches/congregations writing to each other and saying, "These are the books we read in church during worship; what do you read?" And if the second church didn't have all the ones the first church listed, they'd ask for copies, and if they had some they read in church that the first didn't list, they'd send copies along. It didn't take long before all the churches within a couple of days' travel had the same lists, and when they got together to discuss issues -- what came to be called "councils" -- they'd repeat the process, sending their list over to other churches that met in their own local area councils. Before the end of the second century the lists were virtually identical everywhere, but regional councils were still comparing lists, and by the end of the third century the process had gotten up to the councils held by the various patriarchs.

So when Athanasius and others sent out their lists of what was being read for worship in their churches, they weren't issuing decrees to be followed, they were issuing lists that met the measure of "what is read in the churches" -- the decision of what was recognized didn't come from the top down but from the bottom up, and the level of agreement between churches across the Roman Empire and outside it as well was pretty amazing; the Hebrew scriptures were accepted unanimously, along with all but seven of the New Testament books. Those seven, noted as "spoken against" because some (or many) churches didn't approve them, were included as being read in the churches, but they were kept on a distinct second level, and that level came with a restriction: no doctrine was to be founded on those books; they could only be used to support doctrine founded on the undisputed books. The same was true of the "Old Testament" books that had been originally written in Greek; they were read in the churches, but not to be used to establish doctrine, only to support what the unanimously-approved books taught. And those Old Testament books written originally in Greek are what have come to be called "Apocrypha" by many, or "Deuterocanonical", meaning "second canon".

And there's a huge divide between churches who do you all those books in church and those who don't: those who do turn out to be the ones who, as you say, "practice the Eucharist". They also tend to be the ones who honor the church Fathers, which is a no-brainer for anyone who reads the New Testament and actually pays attention: Jesus promised that the Holy Spirit would lead the apostles into "all truth", and Paul explained that the Spirit gives teachers to the church -- apparently giving the means through which the promise Jesus gave takes place. So who are those teachers sent by the Spirit to expound truth? That's a question the radical Reformation as well as most Calvinists can't give an answer to, since in practice they operate as though Jesus never made such a promise and the Spirit never did what Paul epxlained (or they point to the people who founded their denomination as the fulfillment, ignoring the fact that this must mean that the promises weren't acted on for most of church history!).

That divide shows up in how the different groups treat the term "sola scriptura": those who essentially ignore the Fathers treat it as meaning that the scriptures are the only source needed for understanding theology -- epitomized by the ludicrous "King James Only" movement that teats that one translation as though it was the inspired word, and that no one needs to read any other book at all! But Lutherans and Anglicans understand that "sola scriptura" isn't the answer to "What's the only thing I need to read?" but to the question "What is the final authority in matters theological?"

It's not hard to guess that the astoundingly vast numbers of denominations and sects (and cults) that go their own way and disagree with everyone else come from those who hold to the first treatment of "sola scriptura", a meaning that, if the Reformers had meant it, would have been termed "nuda scriptura", "naked scripture". Since they have in essence rejected the promise of Jesus and the teaching of Paul concerning the action of the Holy Spirit in leading the church universal into truth, they are left with no authority but their own imaginations -- as one Orthodox observer noted, "each leader their own little pope" (and as another Orthodox observer pointed out, the explosion of sects is the fruit of the seed Rome planted", since Rome was the first to assert that all truth came from them). If they don't acknowledge the handful of fully ecumenical councils and don't honor the Fathers, they have no anchor.

And the way Jesus spoke that promise points to why the heirs of the radical Reformation are without an anchor: it isn't a promise to "you", singular -- as just about every one of those sects treats it -- it was a promise to "you" plural ("y'all", for students of New Testament Greek), a promise not to the apostles as individuals but to them jointly as the leaders of the church... not just part of the church, but all of it. And the conditions for that haven't been met since the Council of Chalcedon in 451 A.D., when due more to politics than to a desire for the truth much of the church (now referred to as oriental Orthodox and known as miaphysites) was kicked out of fellowship by the leadership of the church in the Roman Empire. So until all those who honor the Fathers -- who are the ones who "practice the Eucharist" -- get together as equals, the only fulfillment of that promise that we have is found in the early councils and the Fathers.

.
.

BTW, the book called "Revelations" was the lowest on the 'totem pole' of what was read in the churches, since it was objected to on multiple grounds: its authorship was uncertain (the majority held it to be by a different John, John the Elder rather than John the Apostle), its message unclear (not a solid witness to the Gospel, plus hard as heck to understand), and its usefulness in edification (i.e. building a spiritual life) was dubious. I agree with Martin Luther concerning it, that until a Christian has a firm grasp on the Gospels, Paul's letters to the Romans and to the Galatians, Genesis, and the Psalms, "Revelations" should stay closed.

As for being "happy with organized religion", the apostle does admonish us to not forsake gathering with the fellowship of the saints, which essentially boils down to church on Sunday. Being happy with the organized part isn't required, though; I know a number of Christians whose attitude toward organized religion is amusement, but they attend because worship together with others is beneficial to spiritual life.

We've had this argument before. Scripture means fully and only what a particular sect wants it to mean, if you or I don't agree, or even if there empirical evidence it's bunk - like Mormons, on it goes, because scripture is just a prop. The Bible has been interpreted a million different contradictory ways that have evolved and changed and gotten more begin or less as the vicissitudes of history progress, and that will never change.

There is only the question of who the believers are, and what they desire. No one knows anything of "God," but what they tell themselves.
 
Yes, I think that God and Christ Consciousness is within us and is a state that all of us have the power to reach by operating on a higher vibe/higher frequency and staying away from things that are low vibrational. I realize that I'm writing this on a website that caters to lust and porn so I don't know where this fits in with respect to high and low vibrations.

What I'm still unsure of is whether angels or "fallen angels" are actually aliens. Texts in organized religions call them angels. Scientists call them aliens. But both agree that they come from the sky to earth and have human-like features. I feel like science and religion both agree that we are not the only ones in the universe.
 
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