Do You Mind Being Called 'Girl' ?

[72-Jay]

I don't know that it necessarily fucks people up though.
Sometimes it is the best place to be and/or you can't avoid it.

Yes, you are correct. Sometimes it is the best place to be. Then own up to it and don't be offended by it.

In my case, yep I'm closeted, and will admit it / am not offended by it. Its just how it has to be. (plus even if that wasn't the case I don't wish to be/am not ready to be out anyway)

Sometimes it is the best place to be and/or you can't avoid it.

It can be successfully argued that being in the closet is a "better" place to be, as opposed to say being killed like a gay Ugandan, or beaten like Brandon White from Atlanta.
But it is never the "best" place to be.

I don't know that it necessarily fucks people up though.

Then you haven't been paying attention. Take a peek down into the Coming out and relationship forum sometime and you can read for yourself thread after thread of closeted gay men with depression, anxiety, paranoia, and fear. Yes, we can segment and separate our lives into manageable bits. And for a lot of gay men other pieces of themselves take precedence over their sexual natures, I get that. But what I don't get is the wholesale denial that gay men don't have to develop and make visible those aspects of themselves and can still be considered on par with their heterosexual counterparts.

Helen Keller said it best...

Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. . .Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. . . Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."

Maybe "better place" is a more proper choice of words over "best place" .. I don't really know there LOL

And no I don't think I've ever looked in the Coming Out And Relationship forum here (There's another site I've read some of Coming Out threads on... and yeah there's allot of people where it goes well and they are happy, but there is some where its a bad experience)
I've also seen a couple posts about being depressed/etc due to being closeted. I guess a better wat to say this would be "I don't know that it necessarily fucks all people up" - some can deal some can't.

talking about me hating myself. if you were in my shoes dealing with homophobic parents, a father who has possible mental issues, around homophobic family members, coworkers and etc, you would be in the closet too. matter of fact, i think it's sad that someone who's gay can't even understand my situation of being in the closet.

If you actually do happen to hate yourself, well just give it time, that will eventually fade away (at least for me it did)
And being around homophobic family-members / neighbors / etc. yep that i fully understand, since same for me.


-
----
And now..
Thinking back on the original subject..
I remembered something from a while back: there's a woman at work who has called me 'bitch' as a joke before - even infront of the gay guy who worked there at the time (and no neither knows about my gay side). Actually didn't bother me at all, I just kinda laughed. But I've also used the same towards her in jokes so LOL its all good

 

[fetaby]

In my case, yep I'm closeted, and will admit it / am not offended by it. Its just how it has to be. (plus even if that wasn't the case I don't wish to be/am not ready to be out anyway)


Maybe "better place" is a more proper choice of words over "best place" .. I don't really know there LOL

And no I don't think I've ever looked in the Coming Out And Relationship forum here (There's another site I've read some of Coming Out threads on... and yeah there's allot of people where it goes well and they are happy, but there is some where its a bad experience)
I've also seen a couple posts about being depressed/etc due to being closeted. I guess a better wat to say this would be "I don't know that it necessarily fucks all people up" - some can deal some can't.


If you actually do happen to hate yourself, well just give it time, that will eventually fade away (at least for me it did)
And being around homophobic family-members / neighbors / etc. yep that i fully understand, since same for me.


-
----
And now..
Thinking back on the original subject..
I remembered something from a while back: there's a woman at work who has called me 'bitch' as a joke before - even infront of the gay guy who worked there at the time (and no neither knows about my gay side). Actually didn't bother me at all, I just kinda laughed. But I've also used the same towards her in jokes so LOL its all good

Just two things.

1.

Its just how it has to be. (plus even if that wasn't the case I don't wish to be/am not ready to be out anyway)

The section I put in bold is easily disputed. I won't do that because of the section I underlined. You are obviously involved in a situation where being in the closet is tolerable, and I do respect that is your decision to make for yourself. However, the closet is most definitely not "how it has to be", it is how you "prefer it to be."

Hardly anybody aside from masochists wish for negativity and hate and disapproval to be brought into their lives. I get that. But you can't tell me that when there are Ugandans fleeing their country under threat of death, your closet is a necessity because you don't want to deal with your Aunt Bernice giving you the side eye during Thanksgiving dinner.

2.

I guess a better wat to say this would be "I don't know that it necessarily fucks all people up" - some can deal some can't.

No. It would be disingenuous for me to say that. The idea that some can deal and some can't would mean there is some sort of measure. That if they dug in deep enough they'd eventually get to pass go and collect the two hundred dollars. That being in the closet could actually be a good thing and Mr. Thomnas will rim your asshole for a nickel so you don't have to have those pesky sexual urges in public.

The measure isn't one gay man to another. One who is out, one who is in, one who creeps when no one is looking... The measure is in the comparable counterpart, the straight man. How many straight men do you know who actively hide the fact that they are straight? Have you ever had a friend who was married with children and didn't know it? Have you ever not been invited to a wedding because the couple didn't want to throw their sexuality in your face?

So that is my question. Why should anyone accept that double standard?

------

As before, I can't go off anything except what you give me to post off. And this isn't meant to be an accusation or interrogation of you. I simply can not be complicit of what amounts to voluntary mental and emotional castration. A person who is in the closet cuts off their sexuality and shoves it in their pocket... please do explain to me how that isn't fucked up.

 

[fetaby]

Goddamn double post...


Go post count, go!

 

[refujiunderground]

Then stop putting up some kind of false facade and stop jumping on everyone who questions what you say like your life depended on it.

so i can't joke around? geez, get a sense of humor. you seem like the type of person that goes to a comedy show with an angry face wondering why everybody around you is laughing.

like there's people actually dedicating pointless essays about me joking around about biting someone's hand off because i don't like being called girl then going to say that i'm the one that needs help.

 

[refujiunderground]

If it's not you typing into the keyboard, then who is it? Some persona you've made up? To what end? Depending on the answer you're either a troll or disingenuous. If it's a) then you deserve no respect, if it's b) then why are you acting offended?

here's what i'm going to leave this here at because i just think you're being ridiculous and you really need to retire that sig of yours because you claim about not giving a damn since 2009 when you do.

persona, huh, persona? i just type whatever i feel like typing up. this is NOT a job. it's a hobby i do at my leisure time which means i do not feel obligated to act like how i do at my job or at school. i'm not getting paid for so why do you and some of the other guys in here come at me as if i'm supposed to act a certain way for YOU. do you see me running around telling people how to sound or how to be or whatever else? NO because i don't give a fuck. i let you guys be you so wtf is the problem? you don't even know me talking about persona. once again, quit acting like you know me, dude. you don't know how i act, you don't know how i feel when i say these words to you on the computer. you seriously think i spend time on this shit and craft some persona where i state my opinion to piss some people in here who are way oversensitive and take things too seriously off. you know, for real... i just say whatever i have to say and keep it moving. i don't make threads or say things with the intention of pissing people off even though i worry about that sometimes because i know how oversensitive some people in here could be where they are ready to argue over the slightest disagreement. ready to throw hissy fits over nothing. what offends me is how certain people in here simply just can't respect an opinion or whatever and make a big issue out of nothing. in order to be an asshole, you have to fuck with people. i didn't fuck with anybody with what i said unlike your ass all trying to take this into a personal grudge.


like for real, i seriously wish you well but i also feel sorry for you for harboring feelings of anger and hate towards me as if i did something to you. i didn't do SHIT to you yet you're coming at me like i did something. all of this simply because of my opinion. you need to learn to respect opinions or otherwise, people will treat you the same way you treat them whether you like what is being said or not. quit running up on me on some "you can't say that, refuji" because it's annoying. i don't run up to any of you in here telling you to watch your mouths or judging your personalities based on whatever the hell you say whether i think it's crazy, idiotic, stupid, or whatever else but yet ya stay on talking shit so quit doing it with me.

 

[altlover85]

I think what some of us are frustrated with refujiunderground is that you tend to get very defensive and aggressive about things. Your posts turn into rants at times and I think it distracts from whatever point you are trying to make.

 

[matty20]

That's never happened to me, but yes, I would mind. I am a man, not a woman. How does being gay make anyone less of a male than if he were straight?

 

[72-Jay]

Just two things.
1.

Its just how it has to be. (plus even if that wasn't the case I don't wish to be/am not ready to be out anyway)

The section I put in bold is easily disputed. I won't do that because of the section I underlined. You are obviously involved in a situation where being in the closet is tolerable, and I do respect that is your decision to make for yourself. However, the closet is most definitely not "how it has to be", it is how you "prefer it to be."

Hardly anybody aside from masochists wish for negativity and hate and disapproval to be brought into their lives. I get that. But you can't tell me that when there are Ugandans fleeing their country under threat of death, your closet is a necessity because you don't want to deal with your Aunt Bernice giving you the side eye during Thanksgiving dinner.

Yep i'm situation where being in the closet is indeed tolerable, and infact I'm completly ok with it
Don't really want to discuss details this part, but also in a situation where if I was outed to the wrong people, there's a very good chance I would end up homless/on the streets (which IDK at that point I might choose to end it all - lets just say I don't want to find out). Who knows but, sometime in the future this part of my situation could end up changing...
(and I've taken some 'risks'...and almost got caught - example being there's a reason I won't be attending a certain parade anymore, even if its cool to see)
But I agree that Ugandans (other countries too) are in a far worse situation

2.

I guess a better wat to say this would be "I don't know that it necessarily fucks all people up" - some can deal some can't.

No. It would be disingenuous for me to say that. The idea that some can deal and some can't would mean there is some sort of measure. That if they dug in deep enough they'd eventually get to pass go and collect the two hundred dollars. That being in the closet could actually be a good thing and Mr. Thomnas will rim your asshole for a nickel so you don't have to have those pesky sexual urges in public.

The measure isn't one gay man to another. One who is out, one who is in, one who creeps when no one is looking... The measure is in the comparable counterpart, the straight man. How many straight men do you know who actively hide the fact that they are straight? Have you ever had a friend who was married with children and didn't know it? Have you ever not been invited to a wedding because the couple didn't want to throw their sexuality in your face?

So that is my question. Why should anyone accept that double standard?

Yeah there is a double standard..straight people have no reason to hide their "straightness" nothing bad can come of it, and it sucks. Should someone accept this double standard? No, probably not, but some choose to weather it be for personal safety or simply their choice...

------
As before, I can't go off anything except what you give me to post off. And this isn't meant to be an accusation or interrogation of you. I simply can not be complicit of what amounts to voluntary mental and emotional castration. A person who is in the closet cuts off their sexuality and shoves it in their pocket... please do explain to me how that isn't fucked up

I don't take it as a accusation or interrogation.. just questions
I can say for me being closeted/hiding big secrets hasn't fucked me up(at least not yet). I will add that I'm single, always have been, never once gone on a date. (sure sometimes feel a bit lonely, and yeah I doubt being closeted helps, but the overriding factor there is both being shy, and sorta socially awkward)
People don't need to to know what "my evil side" is, nor do they question (and yeah I know thats a bad choice of words..but its my choice)

 

[fetaby]

here's what i'm going to leave this here at because i just think you're being ridiculous and you really need to retire that sig of yours because you claim about not giving a damn since 2009 when you do.

persona, huh, persona? i just type whatever i feel like typing up. this is NOT a job. it's a hobby i do at my leisure time which means i do not feel obligated to act like how i do at my job or at school. i'm not getting paid for so why do you and some of the other guys in here come at me as if i'm supposed to act a certain way for YOU. do you see me running around telling people how to sound or how to be or whatever else? NO because i don't give a fuck. i let you guys be you so wtf is the problem? you don't even know me talking about persona. once again, quit acting like you know me, dude. you don't know how i act, you don't know how i feel when i say these words to you on the computer. you seriously think i spend time on this shit and craft some persona where i state my opinion to piss some people in here who are way oversensitive and take things too seriously off. you know, for real... i just say whatever i have to say and keep it moving. i don't make threads or say things with the intention of pissing people off even though i worry about that sometimes because i know how oversensitive some people in here could be where they are ready to argue over the slightest disagreement. ready to throw hissy fits over nothing. what offends me is how certain people in here simply just can't respect an opinion or whatever and make a big issue out of nothing. in order to be an asshole, you have to fuck with people. i didn't fuck with anybody with what i said unlike your ass all trying to take this into a personal grudge.


like for real, i seriously wish you well but i also feel sorry for you for harboring feelings of anger and hate towards me as if i did something to you. i didn't do SHIT to you yet you're coming at me like i did something. all of this simply because of my opinion. you need to learn to respect opinions or otherwise, people will treat you the same way you treat them whether you like what is being said or not. quit running up on me on some "you can't say that, refuji" because it's annoying. i don't run up to any of you in here telling you to watch your mouths or judging your personalities based on whatever the hell you say whether i think it's crazy, idiotic, stupid, or whatever else but yet ya stay on talking shit so quit doing it with me.

And thanks to the latest Wall 'o' text, I see you've chosen b) disingenuous. Thanks for playing. Have a good day.

 

[refujiunderground]

And thanks to the latest Wall 'o' text, I see you've chosen b) disingenuous. Thanks for playing. Have a good day.

well if that's what you think. go ahead. i really don't give a shit. it's not like i'm going to meet you anyway at some point in my life so. i don't have to answer to you to do whatever i feel like doing. if i feel like laughing @ this video, then i have every right to. quit coming around on some "i don't approve of that shit".

you get this as a video, breh, for your dedication and caring. happy kwanzaa

 

[fetaby]

Yep i'm situation where being in the closet is indeed tolerable, and infact I'm completly ok with it
Don't really want to discuss details this part, but also in a situation where if I was outed to the wrong people, there's a very good chance I would end up homless/on the streets (which IDK at that point I might choose to end it all - lets just say I don't want to find out). Who knows but, sometime in the future this part of my situation could end up changing...
(and I've taken some 'risks'...and almost got caught - example being there's a reason I won't be attending a certain parade anymore, even if its cool to see)
But I agree that Ugandans (other countries too) are in a far worse situation


Yeah there is a double standard..straight people have no reason to hide their "straightness" nothing bad can come of it, and it sucks. Should someone accept this double standard? No, probably not, but some choose to weather it be for personal safety or simply their choice...


I don't take it as a accusation or interrogation.. just questions
I can say for me being closeted/hiding big secrets hasn't fucked me up(at least not yet). I will add that I'm single, always have been, never once gone on a date. (sure sometimes feel a bit lonely, and yeah I doubt being closeted helps, but the overriding factor there is both being shy, and sorta socially awkward)
People don't need to to know what "my evil side" is, nor do they question (and yeah I know thats a bad choice of words..but its my choice)

Just two more things...

1.

but also in a situation where if I was outed to the wrong people, there's a very good chance I would end up homless/on the streets (which IDK at that point I might choose to end it all - lets just say I don't want to find out). Who knows but, sometime in the future this part of my situation could end up changing...

Without going into details, would it be fair to say that you don't spend as much time/energy towards ensuring the bolded section is accomplished, or do you feel that is out of your hands?

2. Do you think if you felt secure financially that,

(sure sometimes feel a bit lonely, and yeah I doubt being closeted helps, but the overriding factor there is both being shy, and sorta socially awkward)

could also be a situation you could invest time and energy into changing, if you felt so inclined?

Also, allow me to thank you for your ability to discuss the matter with civility.
----

And just so this doesn't go completely off-topic...

That's never happened to me, but yes, I would mind. I am a man, not a woman. How does being gay make anyone less of a male than if he were straight?

Because the world suffers under the "no true scotsman" fallacy. No "true" man could be gay, therefore any "gay" man can't be true. Mixed in with a bit of false dichotomy... If you're not a "true" man, then you must be the polar opposite....

It's nothing more than stereotypical thinking on a massive scale.

 

[freefall]

An input since some people actually think they can get away with everything they do the Net:

YOU CAN'T JUST TYPE WHATEVER YOU WANNA TYPE. YOUR FACE WOULD MELT AWAY WITH YOUR DRAMA ATTITUDE.

 

[SLOPPYSECONDS]

wanna se ma pussy?

haaaa

 

[72-Jay]

Just two more things...
1.

but also in a situation where if I was outed to the wrong people, there's a very good chance I would end up homless/on the streets (which IDK at that point I might choose to end it all - lets just say I don't want to find out). Who knows but, sometime in the future this part of my situation could end up changing...

Without going into details, would it be fair to say that you don't spend as much time/energy towards ensuring the bolded section is accomplished, or do you feel that is out of your hands?

I think its some of both, sure I could be out there looking for a better paying job/more hours/etc...
but there is also something to be said for these two:
>actually having a job in this economy
>and at a place you don't mind working

2. Do you think if you felt secure financially that,

(sure sometimes feel a bit lonely, and yeah I doubt being closeted helps, but the overriding factor there is both being shy, and sorta socially awkward)

could also be a situation you could invest time and energy into changing, if you felt so inclined?

This is a really tough one:
If I were more financially secure I could buy a place of my own, thus and be living alone/have independance. that would deff help things overall (whith the exception of lonelyness)
I have gotten better with the shyness but it'll always be there even if eventually its just in the background.
I used to not even like being around crowds but that doesn't really bother me anymore. Example would be I went into the city to watch fireworks on the 3rd (because everything near me was canceled due to high fire danger) there was something like 100,000+ people there, and no nerviousness or anything being in that massive crowd (deff one of the biggest I've ever seen, if not the biggest).
Riding the train back towards home was packed to the point where noone else could get on (again being around that many people/standing that close to others in the past woulda made me atleast somewhat nervious...but there was none of that)
I also used to avoid eye-contact/ignore others/etc as much as I could .. just to avoid the dreaded hi/etc from random people you might get when passing someone in a store/etc LOL - again a shyness thing that I've tried to get over

socially awkwardness...that one I don't think I can change with any amount of effort..I think its hard-wired into me.

Also, allow me to thank you for your ability to discuss the matter with civility.

Welcome. And thanks to as you have been completly civil in this as well. I'm not here to get in some big arguement, or jump all over someone just for questions/comments. I'd rather give an answer of "I prefer not saying" or such..

 

[Kabluey]

I think I'd be a fugly girl.

 

[72-Jay]

wanna se ma pussy?

wait ... that was almost readable?
The real question is: Is sloppyseconds a...
...guy?
...girl?
...or some sorta bot/computer?
LOL

I think I'd be a fugly girl.

Best to stay as a cute guy then

 

[justdra]

This is so surreal. Yesterday I went to help my neighbor out and we went over to his parents house and were were talking about her living out in the country and I said it was too quiet, etc and she was like "girl blah blah", "girl this that and the other" and I'm dying laughing inside because this fucking thread popped in my head. On the way home, I told her son, my neighbor about it and he said oh thats show she talks to gay people because her brother (his uncle) is gay and that's how they talk to each other. It just cracked me up.

 

[Audio Tech]

I think I'd punch someone's teeth out if they called me Girl after the first warning.

There's nothing "girl" about me. Probably why I have only straight friends... we get along much better.

 

[refujiunderground]

Wow at your avatar! If that isn't misogynist then I don't know what is. You're not joking around... you've crossed several lines into downright offensive behavior. I'm not writing up essays about what I think of your behavior. Unlike others, I keep things simple and to the point.

you are one sorry ass dude, you know that?

for real, even at times when i'm obviously joking around or being sarcastic, you have to ruin it. it's like dayum, do you know how to joke around or even laugh @ times? do you even smile? i'm really getting tired of having to explain every single thing that comes out my mouth to you. i'm offended at your need to be serious every single thread you make. it's the INTERNET for crying out loud.

and i got no ma'am from married with children (a show that i like to this day and as a kid, i watched religiously every sunday along with the simpsons). it doesn't hurt but to ask, man, if you're curious. it was based on a JOKE. you like to argue just to argue. you probably argue with your boyfriend too over which side of the bed you guys are going to sleep on at night or what station to watch. being that you argue over everything in here even the things that are about nothing.

 

[refujiunderground]

It's evident enough. I don't care for that show. It's still misogynist. I'm not the one that is a sorry ass dude. Not here.

it's a JOKE. it's not meant to be taken seriously.

for real, if i ever meet you, i'm taking you to a comedy show because you seem uptight and serious about everything.


this is for you.