Do You Require Your Significant Other to Be Out?

[FunFunk]

Excellent posts FunFunk, Bankside, and FallenGod!! And I agree with everything you've said!!

Now ... let me try to untangle this a bit ...

Yes, my immediate family knows I'm gay, knows "My" Kev, and, I suspect, even like him more than they do me!

And, my Dad has been Very vocal, and very much "out", about the Methodist Church not only accepting Gays, but also ordaining them as ministers. And, that was even before I came "Out" to him! :/

What I was trying to offer was support, understanding, empathy, for AsianDream's cultural/social situation, and his perspective on the Public's "Right to Know", which does not exist, even though "The Public" thinks it does.

I'm 60. So ... when I was growing up it truly was a different era, atmosphere, than it is now. And, this isn't just about my being Gay! It's also about "The Public" thinking they had a "Right" to JUDGE me (and everyone else). Oh, Look! Chaz was SMOKING Cigarettes! Chaz was drinking Alcohol!! I heard Chaz SWEAR!!! Chaz wasn't dressed "Properly"!!!! Chaz was seen in a pool hall!!!!! Chas was Hitchhiking!!!!!!

Can you imagine what the "Buzz" would be if I got caught Skinny Dipping? Smoking Weed?? Let alone Sucking Dick????

So, yeah!, MY "rep" would reflect on my social standing, and my Family's "rep" as well, given the "business" they were in.

It didn't take much to stir up a "scandal", as small as it might be. Therefore, I was quite sensitive to "The Public's" impression of me, and would "automatically" avoid any "misconceptions" (unadulterated Truth)!

None of this was a reflection on "My" Kev, nor our relationship. It was a reaction to the snoopy Public, and it being None of their Damned business!!

I am, and have been, OUT to friends and immediate family, but only those that could be Trusted. As far as the General Public WAS concerned, and who knew when/where "They" might be, "They" were something to be guarded against.

I hope that's making some sense ...

Keep smilin'!!
Chaz

Thanks for clarifying. I had a feeling generational differences were a factor. And it's good that your family is accepting of you and Kev. I think, though, in this day and age it shouldn't be seen as a big deal to come out in public. So what if the public sees the two of you, say, holding hands or even French kissing in the middle of a crowd? So what if they approve or disapprove. Your relationship doesn't involve them and, again, they have no right to judge. Honestly, I think you'd have a harder time smoking in public than kissing.

As far as AsianDream is concerned, as someone who grew up in a setting tainted by homophobia, I can understand the gist of his predicament firsthand. But, in life, sometimes it's better to do what may be, at first, painful in order to ultimately achieve a better quality of life. Support can be found in lots of places and come at times and from sources that are unexpected. I maintain that if his environment and the circle of people that currently surround him cannot accept him for who he honestly is, he should seriously consider surrounding himself with new circle of people who totally accept him in a more hospitable environment.

 

[thisisinteresting]

If you can't love and accept yourself how the hell can I expect you to love and accept me?

Yep. I would not date someone who was too ashamed to admit they were dating me. Part of it may be that I almost exclusively like older men and if you're over 30 or 40 and you're still not comfortable with it, how can I be so sure you ever will be?

I need someone who's comfortable with themselves. Insecurity is a very unattractive trait to me.

I will never again date someone with whom I have to pretend to be just regular friends with in public. If there's some awkward family event on a rare occasion and you don't want to introduce your 22 year old b/f, okay, but everywhere and anywhere? I'm sorry but no.

We don't have to be making out on the street corner and frolicking down the street holding hands but I'm just done pretending. In general, the personality type that is fear-based enough to still be closeted is not a personality type I'm usually attracted to. I like outgoing. It just doesn't work.

 

[AsianDream]

As far as AsianDream is concerned, as someone who grew up in a setting tainted by homophobia, I can understand the gist of his predicament firsthand. But, in life, sometimes it's better to do what may be, at first, painful in order to ultimately achieve a better quality of life. Support can be found in lots of places and come at times and from sources that are unexpected. I maintain that if his environment and the circle of people that currently surround him cannot accept him for who he honestly is, he should seriously consider surrounding himself with new circle of people who totally accept him in a more hospitable environment.

I am lucky to have been studying in Australia for the last 7 years

Howver back in Hong Kong and China - if it was known I was Bi-sexual it would cause shame for my family - and seriously impact on my professional work in mainland China.

Being "Out" is still very much a western luxury enjoyed ny people in the USA and Europe - I gues it is typical of western arrogance that some people there think this sort of freedom exists in other cultures.

Maybe you should go to Saudi Arabia (a US ally) and try being "out" - assuming you escape the death sentence - the long time in jail in would maybe allow you to reflect that being "Out" is not neccesarily good for everyone.

Then maybe you'd have the humility not to try and suggest that others should reveal their sexual preferences in public - unles they chose to do so.

 

[bankside]

I am lucky to have been studying in Australia for the last 7 years

Howver back in Hong Kong and China - if it was known I was Bi-sexual it would cause shame for my family - and seriously impact on my professional work in mainland China.

Being "Out" is still very much a western luxury enjoyed ny people in the USA and Europe - I gues it is typical of western arrogance that some people there think this sort of freedom exists in other cultures.

Maybe you should go to Saudi Arabia (a US ally) and try being "out" - assuming you escape the death sentence - the long time in jail in would maybe allow you to reflect that being "Out" is not neccesarily good for everyone.

Then maybe you'd have the humility not to try and suggest that others should reveal their sexual preferences in public - unles they chose to do so.

Human rights, by definition, cannot be a kind of arrogance or cultural conceit. I don't doubt that many cultures have to catch up to a modern understanding of basic human rights and equality to which every person is entitled.

This sort of freedom does exist in other cultures, because its basis inheres in all of us as individuals. The freedom is not respected by wrongheaded people within that culture.

What seems out of place is an allegiance to those cultures as though this deficiency of rights is unchangeable, proper, and worthy of accommodation, if not outright respect. If people have a propensity to wallow in a sense of shame because a relative is gay, let them.

BTW, where there is a risk of physical violence or financial ruin because of cultural homophobia, by all means hide it and escape. But escape, don't defend the culture, or even make allowances for it. To suggest that others, who are simply living their lives, are dreaming in some kind of bubble of luxury is to miss the point entirely. Can anyone say that the culture of Uganda is truly uplifting or worthwhile? No! Inasmuch as it makes life a living hell for gay people, it is to be rejected and condemned.

 

[GiacomoPisani]

i do need that my partner be at least out to his parent, not necessarily so to his co-workers.i can even understand that sometimes being out in the workplace can be difficult but to be in a relationship with a guy that is constantly hiding is emotionally destructive.i have a 3 years relationship with a bisexual guy( a son of a b*tch),but i'm cheating on him with his gay cousin,he is not out yet but hopefully once he buys his own house,we are gonna live together ,and of course,he is gonna have to tell his parent.he is a lawyer so i don't want him to come out to his coworker because i fear that it may damage his career.just look what happened to ricky martin ,his career is totally destroyed now.so coming out is not always a good choice, it depends on the conditions you are in.

 

[MarquisOrias]

I personally am not out yet, but not completely in the closet. I feel I have one foot in and one foot out.

If we were out on a date I wouldn't be afraid of holding hands in public or anything ..well I'd just find it weird, I really hate holding hands, and if people asked who we were I wouldn't be afraid to say "he's my boyfriend" , but .....

I haven't told my family , because they're gigantic homophobes and I'd be kicked out (can't afford that right now, poor college student hi!) but at the same time, if I found the guy of my dreams and my living situation is stable , I'd have no problems telling them.

I desperately want to be out because it's killing me on the inside that I have to keep getting into a fight whenever my parents hound me to marry some dumbass chick that they think would be a good match for me (btw my parents have really shit taste in girls haha), but every day I remind myself 2012 my courses are over and it's job & life time.

If they disown me then, I don't care. I'll be living my life as myself and no more hiding.

 

[Seasoned]

I bristle at your use of the word, require. Once I begin requiring anything of my partner I set up a relationship of unequals. I'd change to wording to make it about me and not him. Would I chose to be in a relationship with someone who was closeted? There's no accounting for love so my answer is that I could provided there was a desire and a commitment to open the closet door.

 

[altlover85]

Human rights, by definition, cannot be a kind of arrogance or cultural conceit. I don't doubt that many cultures have to catch up to a modern understanding of basic human rights and equality to which every person is entitled.

This sort of freedom does exist in other cultures, because its basis inheres in all of us as individuals. The freedom is not respected by wrongheaded people within that culture.

What seems out of place is an allegiance to those cultures as though this deficiency of rights is unchangeable, proper, and worthy of accommodation, if not outright respect. If people have a propensity to wallow in a sense of shame because a relative is gay, let them.

BTW, where there is a risk of physical violence or financial ruin because of cultural homophobia, by all means hide it and escape. But escape, don't defend the culture, or even make allowances for it. To suggest that others, who are simply living their lives, are dreaming in some kind of bubble of luxury is to miss the point entirely. Can anyone say that the culture of Uganda is truly uplifting or worthwhile? No! Inasmuch as it makes life a living hell for gay people, it is to be rejected and condemned.

I agree with this, but I also understand that some cultures place a much higher focus on family and not on individuality, which can place a larger wall on escaping from such cultures, than it would in the states or Canada.

I bristle at your use of the word, require. Once I begin requiring anything of my partner I set up a relationship of unequals. I'd change to wording to make it about me and not him. Would I chose to be in a relationship with someone who was closeted? There's no accounting for love so my answer is that I could provided there was a desire and a commitment to open the closet door.

Perhaps require was the wrong word. I think it's better to say "Would I choose to be in a relationship with someone in the closet" but the basic message is similar enough that I can understand why it was worded the way it was.

For me, I'd prefer to be with someone who was at least out to family and friends. I don't like having to sneak around or pretend to be friends in public.

 

[USEDCAR]

It wouldn't bother me either way if i dated an out guy i would want him to have respect not to out me in front of family and certian people. Or try to rush me out of the closet I am semi out of the closet some friends and co workers know, my family don't know they still think im a shy virgin.


If a guy comes along and blew me out of the water like my current crush (i am trying to get over him). I know it would be hard as hell to keep it a secret from my family.


And a totally in the closet guy is fine also as long hes not a chicken to show pda in safe places in another town or in the car. I would tell him eventually we have to come out of the closet as a couple and/or move to California

 

[FunFunk]

Human rights, by definition, cannot be a kind of arrogance or cultural conceit. I don't doubt that many cultures have to catch up to a modern understanding of basic human rights and equality to which every person is entitled.

This sort of freedom does exist in other cultures, because its basis inheres in all of us as individuals. The freedom is not respected by wrongheaded people within that culture.

What seems out of place is an allegiance to those cultures as though this deficiency of rights is unchangeable, proper, and worthy of accommodation, if not outright respect. If people have a propensity to wallow in a sense of shame because a relative is gay, let them.

BTW, where there is a risk of physical violence or financial ruin because of cultural homophobia, by all means hide it and escape. But escape, don't defend the culture, or even make allowances for it. To suggest that others, who are simply living their lives, are dreaming in some kind of bubble of luxury is to miss the point entirely. Can anyone say that the culture of Uganda is truly uplifting or worthwhile? No! Inasmuch as it makes life a living hell for gay people, it is to be rejected and condemned.

Well said, bankside.

 

[FunFunk]

I am lucky to have been studying in Australia for the last 7 years

Howver back in Hong Kong and China - if it was known I was Bi-sexual it would cause shame for my family - and seriously impact on my professional work in mainland China.

Being "Out" is still very much a western luxury enjoyed ny people in the USA and Europe - I gues it is typical of western arrogance that some people there think this sort of freedom exists in other cultures.

Maybe you should go to Saudi Arabia (a US ally) and try being "out" - assuming you escape the death sentence - the long time in jail in would maybe allow you to reflect that being "Out" is not neccesarily good for everyone.

Then maybe you'd have the humility not to try and suggest that others should reveal their sexual preferences in public - unles they chose to do so.

I would never visit a place where I would feel unwelcome by the people who lived there, whether or not the country in question was a US ally (in this case of convenience, solely for oil) or even certain locales in the US itself which have chosen to remain noticeably homophobic (or racist, for that matter). The US is allies with many countries that have social and human rights policies that contradict values of the US government itself and/or its citizens. Those partnerships are made for the economic and political convenience and enrichment of those in power. That's completely unrelated to the topic at hand in this thread. As the saying goes, politics makes for strange bedfellows (and not in a good way).

You would tolerate countries that encourage homophobia and that punish gays for being who they are. Would you also tolerate the Nazis and the holocaust? Or would you tolerate slavery or jim crow laws? What about apartheid? Would you look the other way at ethnic cleansing in Boznia and other countries? Is it tolerable that people are attacked merely because they follow the "wrong" religion? There was a time in the US when Japanese (and, I'm sure, anyone who looked even vaguely similar) were persecuted just for being Japanese. There was also the McCarthy era, which pitted citizen against citizen in attempts to root out communists, but had the larger effect of destroying innocent people's lives. Do you believe situations like those should just be tolerated, especially if you happen to be a citizen of a country in which situations like that are happening? Would you prefer to be treated as second class (or worse)? Or do you think you should try to either 1. help make positive changes or 2. find someplace better to live?

In any case, being out is not at all about Western condescention toward other cultures. It's not about imposing one culture generally on others. And it is most certainly not a luxury. It's a civil right, first and foremost. It's about the rejection of intolerance and the damaging effect intolerance has on people to live their lives as they are and the damaging effect it has on families and careers. It is about being treated with respect for who you are, living openly and not keeping secrets from loved ones, friends and other important people in your life who you would do everything you could to not hurt. It's about not feeling ashamed. It is about basic human dignity. In my mind, for anyone who cares about their quality of life, it's the only option.

 

[FunFunk]

I personally am not out yet, but not completely in the closet. I feel I have one foot in and one foot out.

If we were out on a date I wouldn't be afraid of holding hands in public or anything ..well I'd just find it weird, I really hate holding hands, and if people asked who we were I wouldn't be afraid to say "he's my boyfriend" , but .....

I haven't told my family , because they're gigantic homophobes and I'd be kicked out (can't afford that right now, poor college student hi!) but at the same time, if I found the guy of my dreams and my living situation is stable , I'd have no problems telling them.

I desperately want to be out because it's killing me on the inside that I have to keep getting into a fight whenever my parents hound me to marry some dumbass chick that they think would be a good match for me (btw my parents have really shit taste in girls haha), but every day I remind myself 2012 my courses are over and it's job & life time.

If they disown me then, I don't care. I'll be living my life as myself and no more hiding.

It's good you have a plan to come out and consider it part of your growing independence. Once you completely attain it, it will be a nice feeling, trust me.

 

[FunFunk]

I bristle at your use of the word, require. Once I begin requiring anything of my partner I set up a relationship of unequals. I'd change to wording to make it about me and not him. Would I chose to be in a relationship with someone who was closeted? There's no accounting for love so my answer is that I could provided there was a desire and a commitment to open the closet door.

I think the next questions for many people would be "When exactly would the closet door be opened? How much time would pass in the relationship before the door finally opens?" A lot of people just don't want that uncertainty.

Most people, whether they realize it or not, or admit it or not, set up requirements and parameters when considering a relationship with other people. Age, physical characteristics, personality, HIV status, monagamous vs. open relationships, religion, nationality, culture, political and social views, etc. Being out is simply another trait that people often decide to make a requirement of their potential partners or not. In that regard, it's really not that much different from the other characteristics I mentioned above in this post.

 

[altlover85]

Great posts, FunFunk!

 

[Gosgonue]

My lover's sexuality is my lover's business.He can play straight with his friends and family all he wants as long as he knows he's gay and genuinely wants to be with me,because,in all honesty,that's what's most important.I don't want to be the the guy that forces his boyfriend to do things he's really not all that comfortable with,because if the situation was reversed,how would I feel about being dragged out of the closet before I was ready?I remember being in the closet,I remember being terrified at the thought of coming out of that closet,and I can't imagine myself ever trying to force a guy to come out before he was ready.

I will say that there is one type of closet case I will not tolerate (and thankfully have yet to have to deal with myself),and that is a lover with a pretend girlfriend.I don't give a FUCK if it's a fake,just for appearances sake thing,I refuse to be that gay guy with that kind of relationship.This was something I decided a long time ago when I witnessed a friend go through something similar.I find that pathetic,and any man that tries to put me into a situation like that will find themselves dumped and,more than likely,their ass kicked.

I can only be accepting to a certain extent.

 

[nicko89]

No, i think it's completely selfish to make your significant other be out just to date you. he may not be ready, and it's horrible to pressure someone into something that he isn't ready for. give him time to feel comfortable in his skin, and see things from his perspective - what if he has a strict family who are entirely against his sexual orientation?

i agree with gosgonue over the closet cases, i hate when gay men pretend and deny it.

 

[MMMonsterBoy]

It depends. Is he telling his mom 'I'm talking to this really cool girl' and pretending to hit on girls with his friends? If so, then that doesn't work for me. This shows me he is not ready to embrace himself, therefore cannot truly embrace me. Is he out to close friends, but not his nosy co-workers? Understandable.

I don't want my man to hide his sexuality because he is ashamed. I don't want to be anyone's guilty pleasure. By the end of the day, he has to be comfortable with himself. It all stems down to image. I am wildly attracted to guys with confidence/self-awareness. So if you're in the closet because you want to be, then it wouldn't work for me. If you're in the closet because you need to be, I understand. It isn't everyone's business who you sleep with.

My boyfriend is out, as am I. Both to our friends and family. My mom knows I am seeing him, much to her disapproval, but his mom doesn't know about me. Does it bother me? Not at all. He has his reasons. I know that he is fine with being gay. We can hold hands without being sketchy. We can kiss in front of our friends and all that. So like I said before, it is more about where he is at with himself as opposed to where he is at with others

 

[nialltt]

I just feel that being gay is part of your identity. If he is still finding himself then he isnt ready for a relationship. It would end up in a rocky relationship. I came out for that sole reason, I didn't want to be putting pressure on the person im seeing. I didn't even know at the time that coming out will affect me drastically and make me happier and better.

 

[MyReply]

I think it's arrogant to place any expectations on how the other guy lives his life and relates to the other people around him. I'm not out to my friends and family, and who are you to tell me I should be? Who are you to come in and try to regulate this? If I took up with an 'out' guy, I would be perfectly willing to come into HIS world and play the part of his BF. If he wants to introduce me as his BF to his mother, friends and accepting old aunt, then I'd be happy to oblige him on how he relates to HIS circle. But he'd have no right to tell me how I should interact with my own mother. If I would rather attend my family's 4th of July barbecue solo, then he should respect that. Don't assume everyone congregates with their family and friends the same way you do, or that they should. They're the ones who have to deal with any fallout that may come with coming out, while you get to sit there spectating. How convenient for you. And if you push me to come out, and it's an unpleasant experience...goes who I'm going to wind up being angry at?

 

[HoodedRat]

Yep ... I'm far too old to waste my time being someone else's dirty little secret .. although, to be fair, I've felt like this for the past 35+ years ... ever since I came out at 14.