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Does God exist?

Does God exist?


  • Total voters
    83
Daniel Dennett has written on this. See, for example, his book Breaking the Spell: Religion as a Natural Phenomenon, which draws in part from the work of anthropologist/cognitive psychologist Pascal Boyer.[...]
Now that was interesting... if I'm reading this aright, we're positing that early man, gifted by evolution with a tendency to ascribe intent without visual backup (bumps in the night), when confronted with natural phenomenon he doesn't understand will also ascribe intent to that; and by assuming that the natural force has an intent, he comes to believe that it also has a mind like his own? And then starts worshipping it?

That makes a lot of sense. But it's the leap from point A to point B that I don't buy. All animals ascribe danger or benefit to various sensory stimuli without pausing to analyze them... to leap from instinctive reaction to unknown stimulus to an assignment of intent... well, it's no more a leap than thinking that those early humans, or probably prehumans, sensed the existence of a supernature and formed his thinking around that.

And undoubtedly the ability to believe in gods, this "religion gene," has been an evolutionary benefit... religion is one of the central necessities of civilizations, after all, without which we would never have grown into the species we are today.

Anyway, I think we've wandered rather far off topic. I'm going to sit and ponder on the difference of man evolving a gene that believes in a god as a byproduct of other genes, and man evolving a gene that believes in God because that's what God wanted. A bit of a puzzler.
 
No. Life is too cruel to be created by a creator that truly cares for his creations. If God exists and has been letting us do all the horrible things we have been doing, shame on God.

As for gay people, isn't being gay against the nature of evolution? What is the use of unproductive males when the primary goal of mankind is reproduction? If we were animals, gay males would be left alone and eliminated by natural selection.

Don't hate me I'm just thinking out loud but let's face it, nature wants a male and a female to produce babies. It will always need one female and one male. Two males or two females without the opposite sex can't help continue our existence. We have science and technology to compensate for that but think about animals. Homosexuals can't survive in nature.

All of that makes me think being gay is a mistake by nature..? How can you explain it? I understand love is a different concept and I'm not judging anyone, just desperately searching for anwers.
 
Personally I don't believe in a God, admittadly this is mainly on the evidence presented by "organised" religions, and as such its more accurate to say I don't believe in a God that has been presented by main religions.

Do I believe in a being that created the earth? I've not heard anything that has caused me to think "Actually, yeah, there IS a god." As such I would say I do not hold religious, nor spiritual, views. I do believe in science and the theory of evolution though, due to the evidence that I have seen for it (I took evolution modules during university) and my own personally observations and experience has caused me to think "Yeah, this seems legit."

No... you see, hundred-dollar bills exist, you know they do. You've probably held one in your hot little hand. Where they are and where they go are mundane matters of location.

Now, could you believe in something that doesn't exist? Something not made up of pieces and bits of things that already exist in your world (i.e., science fiction), but something that bears no relation to reality as you know it? Could you believe in the existence of something to which there is no correlative in your world?

And now assume that you're a prehistoric man who has no written language, no concept of the world outside of his own immediate area, no real way of remembering the past or imagining the future... how is that person going to make up a thing that doesn't exist? And then pray to it? I don't think it can be done.

I think that prehistoric man instinctively felt that there is Something Out There; and for him to feel that, I believe it had to have been there. Whether that Something was God, or Alpha Centaurians, or transdimensional beasties, or even just the ghosts of dead humans, I can't say.

I choose to believe what I believe, as do you. That's what a belief is, a choice you make in the absence of evidence. We don't like not knowing things, so we fill in the blanks with beliefs. Unless you refuse to alter your beliefs in the face of solid empirical evidence, or try to force others to believe what you believe, there's really neither good nor harm in it.

And I promise not to belittle your beliefs, swear to Whomever.

A few points on your theory that jumped out at me; Is there evidence for pre-historic mans belief in diety/ies? I'm assuming (so correct me if I'm wrong) that by pre-historic you mean either mans pre-evolutions, such as Homo Erectus and Homo neanderthalensis or what we refer to as Homo Sapien, but before historical records. So generally I assume you mean before historical record and as such we can't really say what they believed.

The paragraph before your last (beginning I choose to believe) is a great point, and one that I feel is the reason for many peoples beliefs. They don't know hwo the world works and here's this book, or books, that tells you how everything became and even how you should live your life. Its also a reason why I don't believe in any religion or God. Just because we haven't discovered why doesn't mean we wont nor does it mean that a wizard must have done it.

Yes, I believe God exist.

We are too wonderfully made, our world/universe is too complicated, and we interact with our environment too well to have all just happen. Evolution doesn't even come close in explaining the whats, hows, and whys. There has to be a master engineer as the cause of it all.

We interact with our environment quite horribly actually. We are very slowly destroying it via pollution, logging, clearing rainforests to make room for cattle for meat, causing the environment to change quicker that ity should, overly farming fossil fuels, cutting down forests to make room for farms to grow plants to make "eco friendly" bags with, making products that need large land fills. We're the single worse species on this planet for interacting with our environments.

Which brings me to the point of how things aren't as perfect as people suggest. If we were perfect beings we would be able to interact and take advantage of much more of our world. We can't survive on the majority of the planet due to it being water, then there's the part where not all of the none watery parts is livable either due to being too cold, too hot, having volcanoes that will cover you in ash and lava, mountains that are too slanted, areas where you wouldn't be able to get water or food to live off etc, etc. I suppose some would say that with all that against life, life MUST be a miracle, but personally the world just looks too chaotically put together for a creator.
 
What started god?

Thats the chicken and the egg theory.
Though just by coincindence, I was discussing this with a co-worker the other day, He called it the Moebius Continuum- There is no beginning or end,just an endless loop- God creates man- Man creates god.
The only thing I do know for a fact is any Religion that claims they have it right is absolutely wrong. :twisted:
 
Yes, but one can't argue there must be a god because everything is started by something. Because then you have to explain what started god.
If you say that god didn't need something to start it because it was always there or that god started itself; then why can't one as validly argue that the universe (matter, being, existence ... fill in the blank) was always there, or started itself?
If you validly argue that the universe started itself, Then by default the universe is god.
Religion made God a person, I believe god is everything that exists.
 
No. Life is too cruel to be created by a creator that truly cares for his creations. If God exists and has been letting us do all the horrible things we have been doing, shame on God.

As for gay people, isn't being gay against the nature of evolution? What is the use of unproductive males when the primary goal of mankind is reproduction? If we were animals, gay males would be left alone and eliminated by natural selection.

Don't hate me I'm just thinking out loud but let's face it, nature wants a male and a female to produce babies. It will always need one female and one male. Two males or two females without the opposite sex can't help continue our existence. We have science and technology to compensate for that but think about animals. Homosexuals can't survive in nature.

All of that makes me think being gay is a mistake by nature..? How can you explain it? I understand love is a different concept and I'm not judging anyone, just desperately searching for anwers.
You may say that being Gay is natures way of Population control.
In the animal world only the strongest, healthiest survive and reproduce.
 
I believe in a SPIRIT 'god.'

(RUAH; ruu-wah: A Hebrew word for spirit which means-- wind, air, breath)

This Spirit exist with no beginning and will never end (everlasting).

This SPIRIT created US and breath a life inside of US which make US the way we are.

This GREAT Spirit also created everything that exist that we see, feel, smell and so on...


Yes, I believe this spirit is real because this SPIRIT is also partly inside of us.

This Spirit also show me things that of none you may not ever image because you don't believe on what I believed in because you may never took a chance to experience this SPIRIT.

I seen miracles happened that took place in my life. I can feel and sense my own future, like what psychic person can do and see happened. Believe me, I know. :cool:
 
Did you post this here instead of in the Religion forum because that's a no-flame zone? Just curious.
 
I intentionally posted this thread in HT because I didn't want folks feeling hindered by a no-flame zone policy. Besides, I thought I would get more of a response in HT than in the Religion forum.

Did it occur to you that there's a REASON for the no-flame policy in Religion? Like, say, they don't want flaming religious discussions on JUB?
 
It seems that you already answered your own question. If homosexuality serves no evolutionary purpose, then natural selection would indeed, most likely have "taken care" of it by now, but that is obviously not the case.
Homosexual behavior is observed in over 400 of the world's higher species (humans included), yet natural selection has so far failed to interfere.

There is a very simple reason behind that. Only humans can fight against natural selection because we can think and have our own rights and wrongs apart from nature's. We've got feelings that lead us to make room for anyone in the world. We save millions of people from dying thanks to science but actually that is against natural selection too.

I'm not a scientist and didn't say homosexuality has no evolutionary purpose at all because frankly I don't know if it has or not. It just isn't useful for reproduction. As someone said maybe it's population control. It's still sad that gays are either a mistake of nature or a natural condom.
 
If homosexuality serves no evolutionary purpose, then natural selection would indeed, most likely have "taken care" of it by now, but that is obviously not the case.
Homosexual behavior is observed in over 400 of the world's higher species (humans included), yet natural selection has so far failed to interfere.

Natural selection as an agent of evolution only works on INHERITED CHARACTERISTICS. If homosexuality is not genetic in origin, then there is no selection pressure either way.
 
There is a very simple reason behind that. Only humans can fight against natural selection because we can think and have our own rights and wrongs apart from nature's. We've got feelings that lead us to make room for anyone in the world. We save millions of people from dying thanks to science but actually that is against natural selection too.

"The whole point of having society is to be less unforgiving than nature." --Arthur Hlavaty
 
There is no way to know one way or the other. Each is just as plausible or implausible as the other. Some folks point to the complexities of life as proof there is a god (such as looking at a watch and saying that is so complex it had to be made by someone). But for some reason folks seem to neglect or chose to ignore that if we were in fact created in some god's image then the god that created us should logically be more complex or at least as complex as we are. So doesn't it then stand to reason that something had to have created god? Then you spiral backwards to the chicken and the egg argument.

The same is true for saying there is no god and the universe sprang into being from nothing (or the big bang). At some point you have to ask where did matter come from to begin with? All matter was compressed into a single point which then exploded to form the universe, but the matter/energy or whatever you call it had to have come from somewhere. So again you are stuck with the chicken or the egg argument.

If theorists are correct and the universe is nearly infinite with infinite diversity (yeah ok that's a vulcan thing ;) ) then there should be a being out there with characteristics similar to what the various religions on earth ascribe to being god's characteristics. But then you have to ask where is that being and did it create us? Again an argument that we can not actually provide evidence for or against.

So i chose to be agnostic. I do not think the god of christian or the other religions on earth exists, but I am not about to tell someone who does believe in them they are wrong, because I can't provide evidence to support my theories or dispute their beliefs. :)
 
Yes, I believe God exist.

We are too wonderfully made, our world/universe is too complicated, and we interact with our environment too well to have all just happen. Evolution doesn't even come close in explaining the whats, hows, and whys. There has to be a master engineer as the cause of it all.

How doesn't evolution explain it? Why does presuming god exists give a better answer?
 
There is no way to know one way or the other. Each is just as plausible or implausible as the other. .

Just because science cannot yet completely account for existence of the Universe or provide a complete explanation of all it's phenomena does not mean the supernatural explanation ("God did it"--not really an explanation at all) is equally probable. Neither does the inability of science to disprove the existence of God (science can't really disprove anything).

The existence of God however, is a scientific hypothesis like any other because his existence (or non-existence) would necessarily make a difference on how the Universe functions--and if you're going to try to postulate some laissez-faire God who started the Universe then stood back and let it all happen, you're paring down the concept of "God" to such an extreme that you may as well eliminate the unnecessary step and call the Universe "God" and say it created itself. We at least have evidence for the existence of the Universe.


I mean, everything we imagine is based on something we know, even if only the tiniest kernel at the base of the abstraction. I don't know what animal observation, what instinctive primate behavior, what naturally-occurring construct would provide the kernel for making up gods. If you have any ideas on that, I'd love to hear them.

Unclean provided a fairly plausible explanation. I have my own; there are others. While none of them provides a perfect explanation, they are grounded in studies of the world (evolutionary biology, psychology, anthropology) while your belief that God might have done it instead seems to be based on nothing more than your inability to comprehend how it could have happened otherwise. This in my experience is one of the fundamental failures of logic in the religious mind.

I won't be surprised if you're not convinced. ;)
 
How doesn't evolution explain it? Why does presuming god exists give a better answer?

Honestly, evolution proof this Great SPIRIT 'god' existence (in my opinion), even though evolution is not made to proof or disproof the GREAT Spirit 'god'.

;)
 
I'm not sure i understand. Are you saying that homosexuality in humans has gone under the radar of natural selection because of man's ability to think for himself? If so, then what about all the other species?



I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing to see homosexuality as a "natural condom" (lol at that btw), seeing as we're still not physically incapable of reproducing, but i also don't agree that our prime goal as a species is to just reproduce ad infinitum. Sure, it's necessary for our survival - but so is eating, amongst many other things.
I don't understand how with all of mankind's various accomplishments, our worth is still based on our basic ability to simply reproduce - something that ALL species are capable of anyway by default.

Then it leads me to believe it's an error. Humans can also heal the ones that would die without medicine. Maybe we are worsening our immune system by doing that, by saving weak people. Maybe we've been preparing our end in the long run. One day we might not be able to resist viruses, an epidemic might wipe us all out unless it's goverment made like h1n1 with the cure already waiting of course. This is all irrelevant if homosexuality can occur after birth by enviromental factors by the way which I think is bullshit. Again I'm just thinking out loud. These are just my opinions based on what I've read&studied etc but by no means facts.

All humanly way of thinking aside, sadly our only goal is to reproduce. Why do you think sex is so irresistable? We just can't help it even with the brain we've got. Long story short nature wants babies lol.
I know it's very sad when you see life as a big waste of time like this. That's why I think we have these spiritual, creative sides that keep telling us to aim for more. Also believing in something greater than you makes this whole process easier to bear.
I'm telling you ignorance is bliss.......

As smart creatures, we are the toughest to keep alive. People commit suicide every day. I'm pretty sure most people here have thought about killing themselves at some time in their lives. I know I have and still do sometimes. Nature wants us alive and religion is a very strong motive. But when you realize nothing really matters and love/sex is all we need (haha), you just want to jump off a building.
 
I also want to add that some that don't believe in this GREAT Spirit may not even know that they believe it, or maybe never will realize that they actually do believe in this GREAT Spirit 'god.'

Did you ever believe in yourself? Think about it! That SPIRIT lives inside of all people, and one thing for sure this spirit is in you, is like another person and this spirit can not disobey the Great Spirit 'YHWH'.



Watch this, now...



Many of these so called straight people who denies themselves as "GAYS" are people that deny the GREAT Spirit because they don't believe themselves and are astray from the true person that this SPIRIT has place upon that boy life WHO created him, and created the NATURE of him.

No wonder many are not happy, because what Satan is trying to do is to slave them and using religion to use evil men to indoctrinated them out of FEAR with all these false teachings! The Great SPIRIT is trying free them out of bondage just like my GOD has did to me.

;)

ONLY a people like you who is confuse and can not see what is in the spiritual realm as myself... It's OK, the GREAT Spirit allowed this to happened. I will never know for sure, till I die.
 
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