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Does is bother when some gay men says it's a "choice?"

Maybe he did choose to be? I don't think that's impossible. I wish I could choose to be straight but I can't.
 
Toy-Boy said:
For the life of me, I will never understand how some gay men claim that they "chose" to be gay. Do we blame society for conditioning their own self-hatred, or are there other factors that lead people to believe this?
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It doesn't bother me anymore. People can think what they want to think. My identity isn't threatened by someone else's perception of themselves and others.
 
Well, it depends
Some say it because they wish to be straight, or have been brainwashed by the Christian society.

Some say it because they are straight, and want to be gay!
it happens
 
reone said:
He just means he chooses to live the gay lifestyle. Doing that and choosing to be gay are obviously two different things though :).



Nice to know :lol:.
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Sorry I react so strongly. I have never known a gay man who wouldn't choose to be straight if it were possible. Living a straight life is the path of least resistance. It is the easier "choice." It's NOT possible.
I find it irritating and offensive for anyone to imply that deciding to like the same sex is a choice. It is the hand we were dealt. We can choose to ignore it and live a lie, but we can not choose to be straight.
I have a redneck Republican uncle who honestly believes gays actively go out and recruit straight boys...convince them to choose to be gay. It's just asinine. It's stunning to me to hear gays say they choose to be gay. You only choose not to live a lonely isolated lie. To say different is, as I said, irritating and offensive, and ultimately dangerous. If we tell people this lifestyle is a choice, we give fuel to the fire they can convince us to choose differently. Hello re-education camps.
:soapbox:
Holy crap!
](*,)
 
Getting a little off subject here but still relevant, I don't mind straight people saying that they think homosexuality is a choice. Let the religious right think that way as well. The reason? If and when science ever discovers the genetic "cause" of homosexuality, who's to say straight couples won't choose abortion over having a gay fetus? There are straight people, God bless them, who still think homosexuality is a genetic defect and believe, wholeheartedly, that bringing a gay baby into this world would only cause it misery. Terminating the pregnancy is the only merciful think to do. And please don't everyone get on my case about how women would never choose that. There are many, many straight people who believe that gay people endure misery, even the most liberal minded. Of course, we all know ethnic people and women endure racism and sexism but no one advocates terminating ethnic babies or female fetuses. Of course that may be a whole other subject. Anyway, if straight people want to believe it's a choice I say "sure!"
 
terry751 said:
Getting a little off subject here but still relevant, I don't mind straight people saying that they think homosexuality is a choice. Let the religious right think that way as well. The reason? If and when science ever discovers the genetic "cause" of homosexuality, who's to say straight couples won't choose abortion over having a gay fetus? There are straight people, God bless them, who still think homosexuality is a genetic defect and believe, wholeheartedly, that bringing a gay baby into this world would only cause it misery. Terminating the pregnancy is the only merciful think to do. And please don't everyone get on my case about how women would never choose that. There are many, many straight people who believe that gay people endure misery, even the most liberal minded. Of course, we all know ethnic people and women endure racism and sexism but no one advocates terminating ethnic babies or female fetuses. Of course that may be a whole other subject. Anyway, if straight people want to believe it's a choice I say "sure!"
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Hmmmmm.
This is a whole topic.
I have endured misery. I have contemplated not being born. I have thought I wouldn't want a child of mine to suffer a gay life. But I WAS born, and I AM gay. It wasn't a choice. To say it is a choice is nothing other than a dangerous lie.
 
Again, not to get too off topic but that's one of the reasons I've done a complete 180 on abortion. With the exception of sexual assault and medical reasons, I believe abortion is wrong. Of course, I have an issue with the government telling people what to do with their bodies as well. Since it's still legal I believe a woman should have the right to have a safe and legal abortion. But I'll be honest and say that if abortion is overturned, I for one will not mourn its demise.
 
It's a pity it is not a choice. It would be the most valuable choice ever.
 
bulge said:
It's a pity it is not a choice. It would be the most valuable choice ever.
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A bigger pity would be the day a scientist discovers the genetic trait that causes homosexuality. I can almost guarantee the vast majority of gay men will do a 180 on their liberal abortion beliefs. And you know the ironic part? The Religious Right will do a similar move by saying "merciful terminations."
 
Wow this thread is going in a totally different direction lol. But to answer the topic at hand I've never heard any gay men say their orientation is a choice. I didn't choose to be attracted to men, I just am. But I can understand if they meant they chose to live their life openly as gay, which is the best choice in my opinion ..|
 
I do sometimes wonder if it was actually some kind of brainwashing or other sort of influence that made me gay. But I'll never know for sure.
 
BrownBoi89 said:
Wow this thread is going in a totally different direction lol. But to answer the topic at hand I've never heard any gay men say their orientation is a choice. I didn't choose to be attracted to men, I just am. But I can understand if they meant they chose to live their life openly as gay, which is the best choice in my opinion ..|
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Sorry if I got off the subject of the original thread. I guess my point is (and it was already mentioned earlier) is that even if it wasn't a choice, that's not gonna stop the bigots and the haters in the world. People don't choose their race or gender when they're born but that doesn't stop the racists and the chauvinists from doing what they do. Maybe we should just accept what is and not what could have been. At least that's what i think.
 
Edward Twinkletoes said:
It doesn't bother me anymore. People can think what they want to think. My identity isn't threatened by someone else's perception of themselves and others.
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Great answer (even if we do disagree on whether we're born gay or not).
 
In a way it is a choice.

Even though one may be born gay, he can still choose whether to come out or not.

It's a tough choice some guys can never make.
 
wwanderlust said:
The fact that "I can't help it" shouldn't be used to try and sway people towards sympathizing for gay marriage, for example. That just makes our sexuality seem like a disability. We should be trying to make people understand that even if every one of us chose this, it doesn't make the denial of our equality any less wrong.
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:=D:

Worth repeating.
 
Life itself is a choice, but not everything is a choice. You actually choose to do something about yourself and everything around you, not what you want to be. Like simply saying, you may say you choose to be a police (or any jobs) but it wouldn't happen if you don't do something about it.

The same thing happens with gay. People may or may not be gay. But what makes someone actually loves their own sex or not is whether they accept it or not. A gay won't be considered a gay if he keeps on denying himself forever and chooses to hook up with a girl.

Simply to say, someone is gay because they choose to be one by determination, not just saying, "Hey, I'm gay!" out of the context.
 
>>>The fact that "I can't help it" shouldn't be used to try and sway people towards sympathizing for gay marriage, for example. That just makes our sexuality seem like a disability. We should be trying to make people understand that even if every one of us chose this, it doesn't make the denial of our equality any less wrong.

And I think this is where we tend to get our wires crossed with the conservative/religious "being gay is a choice" argument. That and the "love the sinner, hate the sin".

Let's move this away from homosexuality into something more...sinister. Something obviously wrong. Say instead of being born being attracted to guys, I was attracted to five-year-old girls. Or even further, say I enjoyed torturing them. How much distance do you think I could get by saying "this isn't a choice", or "I never chose to like torturing five-year-old girls - I was born this way"? Their response would probably be the same as your response - "I don't care if you were born that way or not. You'd best get some fucking help and NOT have sex with/torture any kids."

Those who argue against homosexuality find it to be analogous, if not identical. "Perhaps you were born that way, but that way is wrong. You need to choose to get some help so you can fix yourself." But many of us homosexuals instead just come out as gay, and live our lives as gay. Which of course infuriates them, because we not only are "miswired", but we're actually proud of that "miswiring".

This is why I emphasize that I didn't choose to BE gay, but I chose to LIVE gay. I didn't choose to live gay because I couldn't help it. If need be, I COULD live as straight. I'd be hellaciously unhappy, but if for whatever reason I HAD to do it, I probably could. I chose to live gay because I decided there was nothing wrong with it. That it not only wouldn't harm anybody else by being gay, but I could possibly make other gay men happy by doing so. And I think THIS is the argument that needs to be pressed. Not the "I'm gay and I can't help it" one. To do so doesn't invite acceptance. It invites them to try to perfect their "ex-gay" programs.

Lex
 
NVRMOR said:
Sorry I react so strongly. I have never known a gay man who wouldn't choose to be straight if it were possible.
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I wouldn't. No fucking way. I don't like women. I can't imagine wanting to.

If I had a clean slate and a choice, I'd pick to be straight because it would be easier, but considering I am gay, I don't want to be anything else.

And I don't want anyone ever to find out what makes us gay, precisely because it'd give society the easy way out. Rather than make a more equitable place for everyone, we'd prevent births so that everything is smoother and we don't have to try. Or we'd stop hormone "im"balances in the womb. Or whatever.

I'm pro-abortion (not pro-choice, I'll call it what it is), but the idea that someone might only have an abortion because they are worried their kid will have a hard life because they will fall in love with people of the same sex is fucking terrifying

And it's not a choice... that's like saying you chose to fall in love with the person you fall in love with. Or like saying you chose to be attracted to twinks more than bears. I prefer to think of it as the same as a preference for blondes over brunettes. Or vice versa. It happens. You can't do anything at all. I don't like the idea of a biological basis.

My sexuality is mine, and it is something I have constructed, even if I didn't know it at the time, and maybe sometimes I haven't liked aspects of it, ranging from my preferred sex to the people I have crushes on, but it demeans it to say that it is a choice, or it is fixed by my biology, or anything else that boils it down.

So pretty much, guys that call it a choice are scared of what it means, and I think that's sad for them, because if they stop trying to analyse why it is there, they'll have a better time in life.
 
>>>I'm pro-abortion (not pro-choice, I'll call it what it is), but the idea that someone might only have an abortion because they are worried their kid will have a hard life because they will fall in love with people of the same sex is fucking terrifying

Again, that's why I think the aim shouldn't be to insist "this isn't a choice". It makes it sound like it's some heavy burden that we can't do anything about. I don't want people to pity me for being gay. I want people to ACCEPT me for being gay. If we can make them understand that being gay really ISN'T any big deal, then they won't feel the need to try to "solve this problem" for us. Either in vitrio or after birth.

Lex
 
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