does the US govt owe LGBT reparations?

[fabulouslyghetto]

I think we Norwegian Americans should get reparations from the government for allowing some dastardly villain to foist lutefisk on us. And lets not forget the poor Finnish immigrants, they have been the brunt of Finlander jokes for decades...they have become a laughing stock.
Uff da!

Yeah because inequality sponsored by the state is totally tantamount to mean jokes. I'm going to let you in on a little secret that may come as a shock to you..... other people exist besides you. Shocking, right?

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

It is an interesting idea.


I think healthcare for all though would be better though with a strong mental health program.

That is a very very very very very very important part of this whole concept, that we need programs to start healing LGBT mentally because a lot of us are screwballs and if it were just at the hands of citizens I wouldn't even be considering this but it was promoted, supported and written into law by a govt we all pay taxes to.

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

I wonder if these gals have even considered just how much homophobia has been written into law and/or sponsored by the US govt. Don't Ask Don't Tell and marriage equality was on the books til practically fucking yesterday, are we allowed to donate blood yet? How many assaults have been committed against LGBT and handled poorly after "gay panic defense" became an actual defense? It's too early for me to even think about all the ways the govt has given us the middle finger and I can't imagine the limitless ways they could fund programs that help to lift us up out of the dirt. The "I'm fine so this is unnecessary" crowd reeeeeeeeeeally haven't considered the magnitude of our problems and sorely-needed solutions.

I mean Hawaii is the 12th state to ban Conversion Therapy for minors, again... 12th. People are just out of touch or don’t pay attention to how much still exist and how damaging it actually is.

Let me add that a lot of people don’t have empathy or sympathy outside of their own circles.

 

[peeonme]

In particular cases yes, especially to those who lost employment due to the Lavender scare and the ban on LGBT immigration.

This I agree with, my cousin was fired from a few jobs when it was found that her partner was of the same gender.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

This I agree with, my cousin was fired from a few jobs when it was found that her partner was of the same gender.

I hope that's the sound of some of you reconsidering your position.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

I mean Hawaii is the 12th state to ban Conversion Therapy for minors, again... 12th. People are just out of touch or don’t pay attention to how much still exist and how damaging it actually is.

Let me add that a lot of people don’t have empathy or sympathy outside of their own circles.

Quoted for absolute motherfucking truth. You're always a voice of reason in my threads. Bolded for emphasis.

 

[bankside]

there are a number who have literally suffered economic loss and enjoyment by the pernicious persecution by the State. If they can prove their loss, they should be compensated.

This is very different from “gay people should get reparations”. You want to make the state to make good on a particular wrong it did to a particular person. That’s a fair principle whether the person is gay or straight or bi. But that’s a different question.

 

[bankside]

You don't think the govt should pay into programs that benefit LGBT? Are you not aware how many homeless gay teenagers are out there sucking dick for a place to lay their head at night? Police departments need training on dealing with domestic issues involving gay couples. Businesses need diversity training similar to what Starbucks is doing about the incident in Philly. Yall are so fucking short-sighted and self-absorbed I'm amazed you were able obtain driver's licences.

I literally said that governments should support social programs like that in the post you are quoting. Go get your own damn glasses.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

This is very different from “gay people should get reparations”. You want to make the state to make good on a particular wrong it did to a particular person. That’s a fair principle whether the person is gay or straight or bi. But that’s a different question.

I think the word "reparations" has a negative connotation to it because people immediately think of lazy blacks wanting a free check. Who could argue that gay men are in dire need of outreach and programs for a host of issues we suffer from? The idea here isn't every homo gets a nice lil chunk of change for a spa day or to throw an extravagant party.

 

[KaraBulut]

does the US govt owe LGBT reparations?

Aren't reparations something paid after the discrimination ends?

From where I'm sitting, the discrimination isn't over and the meter's still running.

 

[peeonme]

Aren't reparations something paid after the discrimination ends?

From where I'm sitting, the discrimination isn't over and the meter's still running.

What is being proposed in that link doesn't end discrimination. Companies with less than 15 employees would be exempt. I have seen employers keep their number of employees under what ever Federal law they want to avoid.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tanyat...eel-about-the-new-equal-pay-law/#61a08f3a4f13
Iceland set a number 25 employees for equal pay.

If right is right, then no employer should be exempt.

 

[luckynumbah7]

What is being proposed in that link doesn't end discrimination. Companies with less than 15 employees would be exempt. I have seen employers keep their number of employees under what ever Federal law they want to avoid.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tanyat...eel-about-the-new-equal-pay-law/#61a08f3a4f13
Iceland set a number 25 employees for equal pay.

If right is right, then no employer should be exempt.

I'd think that would depend on the job and the position. A woman's bookstore, owned & run would probably prefer women as employees. I'm willing to bet most men wouldn't be too keen on having a woman as a coach when there's a locker room involved, either. I can think of all kinds of jobs that are currently gendered for positions that are based on the norm's of society's social comfort - the construction of which is far from an inborn trait.

 

[KaraBulut]

What is being proposed in that link doesn't end discrimination. Companies with less than 15 employees would be exempt. I have seen employers keep their number of employees under what ever Federal law they want to avoid.

That kind of limitation on the number of employees is boilerplate policy for small businesses. It was discussed in the ACA discussion that small businesses are generally exempted from federal requirements imposed on business.

The larger point is that you can get married to your same-sex partner on Saturday, and then your employer can fire you on Monday for being gay; your landlord can kick you out at the end the month because you're a gay couple. It's perfectly legal and in most States there's not a damn thing you can do about it.

It's a mystery why we've gotten the idea that times are great for gay people because we're equal. Back in the 1970s, companies would hire private detectives to write down license plates of cars in the parking lot outside gay bars. If one of their employees matched the list of car owners, the employee was fired. In most places, that would still be legal today.

Chances are that reparations for some past bad deed wouldn't be near the value of having a secure job today.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

It's a mystery why we've gotten the idea that times are great for gay people because we're equal. Back in the 1970s, companies would hire private detectives to write down license plates of cars in the parking lot outside gay bars. If one of their employees matched the list of car owners, the employee was fired. In most places, that would still be legal today.

Does the bolded part not explain the underlined part? Of all people I know well that we have a lot of work to do, I talk about that all the time, but glass half full we are much further along than I personally ever thought we'd be, we have come a long way in just a short period of time, women couldn't vote til around the great depression and it took hundreds of years for black people to go from sub-human to equal citizens [give or take a dignity or two or ten], equal rights for us homos does seem to be happening at lightning speed compared to previous civil rights matters and if we mobilized and opened up our doors to people who don't resemble Sean Cody models it could happen even faster. there is untapped political power within LGBT, persons of color and trans are largely exempt from activism because nobody is reaching out to them [to be honest, for lack of care or or concern] and it's definitely not something that's taught to them or encouraged by their families, peers and communities. the die-hard repubs we have here, their hints of self-loathing are tame compared to attitudes about equality from LGBT of color who actually support inequality. conversations about gay marriage usually go like this

"fags cheat anyway"

"why should we be allowed to marry? we can't even blah blah blah blah"

"i'm never getting married"

"one man one woman"

what is a minority here is the majority for black gays-- you won't find too too many who are politically active in our favor. it's a shame because with just a little patience and guidance they could be an valuable political tool. Same goes for trans.

 

[luckynumbah7]

Does the bolded part not explain the underlined part? Of all people I know well that we have a lot of work to do, I talk about that all the time, but glass half full we are much further along than I personally ever thought we'd be, we have come a long way in just a short period of time, women couldn't vote til around the great depression and it took hundreds of years for black people to go from sub-human to equal citizens [give or take a dignity or two or ten], equal rights for us homos does seem to be happening at lightning speed compared to previous civil rights matters and if we mobilized and opened up our doors to people who don't resemble Sean Cody models it could happen even faster. there is untapped political power within LGBT, persons of color and trans are largely exempt from activism because nobody is reaching out to them [to be honest, for lack of care or or concern] and it's definitely not something that's taught to them or encouraged by their families, peers and communities. the die-hard repubs we have here, their hints of self-loathing are tame compared to attitudes about equality from LGBT of color who actually support inequality. conversations about gay marriage usually go like this

"fags cheat anyway"

"why should we be allowed to marry? we can't even blah blah blah blah"

"i'm never getting married"

"one man one woman"

what is a minority here is the majority for black gays-- you won't find too too many who are politically active in our favor. it's a shame because with just a little patience and guidance they could be an valuable political tool. Same goes for trans.

~Coughs~

The same doesn't quite go for trans people. Just because people don't reach out doesn't mean we haven't made our own resource areas or formed our own political opinions. Granted, that's usually on the liberal or anarchist side of things; I haven't seen that many Republican trans people, fer instance, and the ones I have found I generally wouldn't want to interact with. Most of us are quite for our own rights. Actually, we're all for our own rights, even the gop-esque handful of trans people. The argument from them is 'more hoops', but everyone still insists on the rights themselves. That's more a purity argument than 'we don't deserve X'. That might have something to do with the severity and overall-ness; it's much more difficult to be ambivalent about something when you're the only one around.

-unless you want me to count the random ass who insists 'We don't need anything because 'Sticks-&-Stones minus the words', but I didn't get the impression that's what you were saying.

-Or possibly it's because the weaker members end up being 'culled' by society, for lack of better phrasing.

---Tho I have seen mildly homophobic trans people. I dunno that I'd consider it as common as in 'gen pop', tho, since if you're transitioning you're likely to be seen as gay either before or after.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

The same doesn't quite go for trans people. Just because people don't reach out doesn't mean we haven't made our own resource areas or formed our own political opinions.

At the risk of turning this into a triangle, the same does go for LGBT of color, there are pockets of groups here and there but by and large the face of the movement for equality isn't terribly diverse, although that's as much maybe more the media's fault than our own, still I do think there's a large room for improvement in outreach and bridge-building.

 

[pat grimshaw]

There must be Intersectionalist Reparations!

 

[luckynumbah7]

---Tho I have seen mildly homophobic trans people. I dunno that I'd consider it as common as in 'gen pop', tho, since if you're transitioning you're likely to be seen as gay either before or after.

I strongly suspect the cause of quite a bit of that might be bitterness and misplaced anger.

Either way, can't say I've seen the 'we don't deserve x because we can't dance on the head of a pin'.

I mean, take your "I'm never getting married" example. Most people's first reading would be a decision on whether they wanted to be married and what laws would allow that, you know, the usual drill. Community expectations, even - 'Do people in my community have relationships. Or hell, sex at all?".

Marriage was not something I had previously considered, I'd assumed it was automatically off the table before puberty. I could believe it of the lg & b, but I doubt trans people our age as a group were regularly considering marriage as a possibility after transition, regardless of race.

Mind you, fuck only knows about the younger set.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

I strongly suspect the cause of quite a bit of that might be bitterness and misplaced anger.

Either way, can't say I've seen the 'we don't deserve x because we can't dance on the head of a pin'.

I mean, take your "I'm never getting married" example. Most people's first reading would be a decision on whether they wanted to be married. Marriage was not something I had previously considered, I'd assumed it was automatically off the table before puberty.

Oh yeah I know where it comes from, at least on my side, some LGBT of color are going to have to be dragged kicking and screaming into tolerance and equality, they've internalized the anti-gay teachings of the church and don't believe that we deserve equal rights under the law. Somebody has to have the patience [fuck-tons of it] to teach them to love themselves and then other gay people. Of course that's exactly the kind of program that should be funded by the government because A] nobody else with the same level of resources is gonna do it and B] the govt spent years legitimizing homophobia ipso facto self-hatred with discriminatory laws. They had a direct hand in anti-gay bigotry this isn't some 6 degrees of separation type shit so I'm not sure why people are speaking as if I'm asking some non-complicit 8th party to pick up someone else's tab at an entirely different bar.

 

[opinterph]

There must be Intersectionalist Reparations!

Please explain how that remark is related to the topic of discussion.