No Animated GIFs Duck Fuc**** Dynasty has ruined my Christmas!

[TX-Beau]

So, now that I've calmed down a bit.......

The gist of the conversation wasn't them defending what he said, it was how horrible the gays were for ruining his career - with the heavy implication coming from some people that there was malice involved. That we were out to "get" him because he just "exercised" his God given rights.

I'm not going to rehash the whole argument which went into the toilet pretty quickly after that. Suffice it to say that instead of discussing WHAT he said about us (not to mention anyone else) certain members of my family were commiserating with the poor dear and demanding to know why WE were treating poor little 'ole him so terribly.

Why did we have to be so pushy and shrill, and why can't we just be quiet and go live in San Francisco.

Right.


Generally to the table - tolerance is not tolerating the hate. It's not tolerating the "right" of bigots to be bigots, tolerance is tolerating that people are different and we should ALL be treated with respect, and if the Klan isn't willing to do that, they get no tolerance.

You know what, you can say what you want, then you can deal with the consequences. You throw hate, you get it back.

Just in case anyone is interested in the resolution of this sordid and petty little spat - I didn't go home - I'm not leaving and if we have to have that same atmosphere of pins and needles and no one looking at the elephant in the corner - that I survived it when I was coming out - so be it; I'm not running now.

If they want to side with bigots, they can damn well feel uncomfortable about it.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh yeah, thank you for letting me vent all over y'all.

 

[TX-Beau]

I think your family loves you & that you should stay. If they didn't care about you at all or if they could not tolerate you being gay, they would have disowned you or told you to never come home again.

Hopefully they're done talking about Duck Dynasty. If they still want to talk about it, try to gently change the subject. If that doesn't work, calmly explain why you thought his comments were hurtful towards you.

The bigot was the proximate cause of the offense, but not ground zero. The offense was that by implication gay people should not do exactly what he did and say what they mean. It's OK for some bigot but you and I don't HAVE the right to criticize him.

I'll give you three guesses what's underpinning that sentiment.

 

[G-Lexington]

I'm getting a bit tired of being told how intolerant I am for not accepting people who say horrible things about me.

If I were in such a family, my only comment would be "If you feel more like supporting the man who says such things about me than supporting me, then I guess there's nothing more that needs be said." But I'd stay. I'm much easier to hate when I'm not in the room, I've found.

Lex

 

[TX-Beau]

To the OP.

Thanksgiving and Christmas are all about stress. And families pissing on one another.

My advice? Don't say shit if your mouth is full of it. Just let them know that the discussion is over and that you are all apparently entitled to your own opinions and won't change, so arguing is a sterile and negative exercise. But tell them very clearly that the discussion is closed once and for all and that the topic is either over or you are in your car and on the way home because it has upset you so much.

If they are adults, they will respect this. And if they don't, then you should make good on the promise and remove yourself before you lash out.

What you do after this is all to come. I appreciate that you feel betrayed and it is apparent that your own family has some distance to go to fully accept who you are. But this is their journey and not yours. The pity is, you probably won't ever feel as close to them as before but you still share more in common than things that drive you apart.

hmmmmmmm.........

I don't like conditional acceptance, so I have to deal with them as they are. It's not all of them. But it gets tiring tilting at this particular windmill year after year after year after year..........

That said the rhetoric on the 'phobe side HAS gotten more vicious and nasty. I can tell that they are getting a lot of this from places like Fox, it's to pat and too consistent to be the spontaneous opinions of various people.

Which is why kiddies, standing up to people like the bigot matters, and making the phobes uncomfortable in their own homes matters. Hate grows where people feel comfortable airing it out. All Southerners know this, it's been a hallmark of Southern racist code speak for three hundred years.

 

[TX-Beau]

I'm getting a bit tired of being told how intolerant I am for not accepting people who say horrible things about me.

If I were in such a family, my only comment would be "If you feel more like supporting the man who says such things about me than supporting me, then I guess there's nothing more that needs be said." But I'd stay. I'm much easier to hate when I'm not in the room, I've found.

Lex

HA beat me to it.

 

[rareboy]

The one thing to point out is that everyone in the right wing media is flying a false flag and everyone is playing right into it.

It wasn't his comments about the fags that got his ass canned.

It was his comments about the blacks. But FOX and Fiends immediately realized that his free speech rights wouldn't be worth a bucket of spit if he is racist, so they zoomed in and made his exile about his comments on homos.

Nicely played there.

 

[TX-Beau]

TX, I think you might feel less rage and frustration if you tried to identify the source of their hurtful opinions.

Does it come from malice? That is, does your sister really despise gays? Does she really think of gays as kin to zoophiles?

Or does it come from ignorance? I suspect this is the case. Your family cares about you, but isn't able to understand why the homophobia bothers you. Explain it to them, as kindly as you can, as though they are slightly dull children. If they are not trying to hurt your feelings, don't try to hurt their feelings back. Just educate them about how incorrect and disrespectful the DD comments are.

Ignorance with a capitol I, a willful tossed in for good measure, and a dash of Baptist disgust for the Butt Sex.

It's homophobia pure and simple, and they know precisely why it horks me off (I'm not exactly the shy retiring type,) The ones in question know it, I know it, and I can't edumacate rednecks who don't want to be edumacated - plus it's being exacerbated by right wing loons stirring it up for political gain. In the last few years some of my relatives have actually regressed in their tolerance.

They aren't going to disown me, that's not how we roll, but they will (and did) try to make my life a living hell, shun me at family gatherings in an attempt to shame me into line, etc...

 

[TX-Beau]

The one thing to point out is that everyone in the right wing media is flying a false flag and everyone is playing right into it.

It wasn't his comments about the fags that got his ass canned.

It was his comments about the blacks. But FOX and Fiends immediately realized that his free speech rights wouldn't be worth a bucket of spit if he is racist, so they zoomed in and made his exile about his comments on homos.

Nicely played there.

I pointed that out and surprise surprise, black people don't have the right to criticize him either. It's his right to say what he means in an upstanding and honorable way and the pink black yellow and brown should applaud the quintessential American-ness of his right to hate speech.

After all saying what he says like that all right out in the open takes a FREE society and lots of courage.

Blah, blah blah blah, ad nauseum....

 

[TX-Beau]

This TV buffoon I've never heard of before has the lowest possible opinion of us as human beings. He compares us to pedophiles. We pass laws to control pedophiles and exclude them from everyday society! The obvious consequence of his position is that our lives and our freedom are beneath contempt. He isn't "expressing a different opinion," he is evidence of a hateful cancer that is dangerous to our civilization and to us in particular.

He is the lowest of the low. Why would anyone think my opinion of him should be any higher? Why would anyone think my opinion of anyone who sides with him should be any higher? He really thinks we are subhuman. In reality, it is his values that fail the test of human civilization. In reality it is his views that need to be controlled and contained by the law. It is he that needs to be excluded from everyday society. You don't "just try to get along" with his kind any more than we would try to get along with a pedophile or a nazi.

I don't think it requires shouting to explain that to someone in the family who may be a bit simple and hasn't really thought it through before opening his mouth. But I think that once it is explained to them, they will either see what you mean and come around, or they will make it clear where their allegiance lies. Instead of storming out, have this family relationship on your terms, or let them walk away from it. That's the easiest way to stick to the high ground.

I hate the high ground, being a petty bitch is so much more satisfying, but OK, if you insist.

 

[Musik2400]

...He compares us to pedophiles.... The obvious consequence of his position is that our lives and our freedom are beneath contempt...He really thinks we are subhuman

And yet:
It is he that needs to be excluded from everyday society. You don't "just try to get along" with his kind any more than we would try to get along with a pedophile or a nazi.
Its fine for you to compare him to a pedophile, AND a Nazi. Even though all he's done is quote the Bible. His beliefs are misguieded: true. His beliefs are oppressive to us: false. He doesn't see us as a community that needs to be controlled by law or eradicated. He sees us as a community that needs his help to be saved, and to 'inherit the kingdom of god". His comments and beliefs, as warped and wrong as they are, don't come from hate, just misunderstanding. If you actually read some of his interviews too, you can tell that his beliefs come in large part from the times when he was cheating on his wife before he became a religious man.

In reality it is his views that need to be controlled and contained by the law.

Oh ya, cuz government control over what we're allowed to think is totally the way to go.

And who is listening? Certainly not the rednecks who watch Duck Dynasty.

I disagree. A million plus viewers look up to this guy - the types who don't listen to the voices speaking for us. For them he is a cultural icon. What he says matters.

First, I'm willing to bet there's some overlap in those two groups. A lot of overlap.

But I get where you're coming from. As soon as someone becoems a celebrity, or any kind of image/icon which people might listen to, we should just lobotomize them all so they can't HAVE opinions. Avoid the whole debacle before it begins right?

I'm all for mind control, and having the government take charge. We might wanna get on this fast though, or the other side might beat us to it... then who knows, maybe OUR opinions will be the illegal ones.

 

[TX-Beau]

The last time we had a conversation you blew up at me.

I think you might need some Xanax honestly.

HA! Out here in the Meat world I'm actually a pretty laid back kind of dude.

We just get a little heated talking about the things we talk about in here. Plus if that's your bulge in your avatar, I'd like to lick your package.

Did I just say that out loud!?!

(inside voice , inside voice)

 

[Adrock-JD]

The one thing to point out is that everyone in the right wing media is flying a false flag and everyone is playing right into it.

It wasn't his comments about the fags that got his ass canned.

It was his comments about the blacks. But FOX and Fiends immediately realized that his free speech rights wouldn't be worth a bucket of spit if he is racist, so they zoomed in and made his exile about his comments on homos.

Nicely played there.

Exactly. If you're racist in America, you'll be shunned for being so ignorant but if you're homophobic it's suddenly all about "free speech" (hate speech that encourages hate crimes, by the way) and "religious beliefs" That's total bullshit.

 

[TX-Beau]

And yet:
It is he that needs to be excluded from everyday society. You don't "just try to get along" with his kind any more than we would try to get along with a pedophile or a nazi.
Its fine for you to compare him to a pedophile, AND a Nazi. Even though all he's done is quote the Bible. His beliefs are misguieded: true. His beliefs are oppressive to us: false. He doesn't see us as a community that needs to be controlled by law or eradicated. He sees us as a community that needs his help to be saved, and to 'inherit the kingdom of god". His comments and beliefs, as warped and wrong as they are, don't come from hate, just misunderstanding. If you actually read some of his interviews too, you can tell that his beliefs come in large part from the times when he was cheating on his wife before he became a religious man.



Oh ya, cuz government control over what we're allowed to think is totally the way to go.



First, I'm willing to bet there's some overlap in those two groups. A lot of overlap.

But I get where you're coming from. As soon as someone becoems a celebrity, or any kind of image/icon which people might listen to, we should just lobotomize them all so they can't HAVE opinions. Avoid the whole debacle before it begins right?

I'm all for mind control, and having the government take charge. We might wanna get on this fast though, or the other side might beat us to it... then who knows, maybe OUR opinions will be the illegal ones.

See, thing is he doesn't "just want us all to go to heaven" the preachers who want that are very different kinds of Christians. This guy wants to FEEL superior, above, holier, etc.

It doesn't matter how many gay people he hurts or how many offended happy darkies there are a'singin' in the cotton fields (Do what ya want, jus pleeze doan throw me in dat dere Briar Patch!), the goal is to inflate himself.

And he's gonna get there by pissing on you.

 

[Rolyo85]

I don't know how I'd respond in a situation like that. I'd like to think I'd be caustically sarcastic and make them feel like they have Down syndrome, but the sad truth is that I don't have a very big family and they're all fairly intellectual, so this kind of spiteful behavior isn't something I've ever had to deal.

Also, if you're all that into licking packages, come visit me in the Chi.

Also do that if you're not all that into licking packages

 

[eastofeden]

And yet:
It is he that needs to be excluded from everyday society. You don't "just try to get along" with his kind any more than we would try to get along with a pedophile or a nazi.
Its fine for you to compare him to a pedophile, AND a Nazi. Even though all he's done is quote the Bible. His beliefs are misguieded: true. His beliefs are oppressive to us: false. He doesn't see us as a community that needs to be controlled by law or eradicated. He sees us as a community that needs his help to be saved, and to 'inherit the kingdom of god". His comments and beliefs, as warped and wrong as they are, don't come from hate, just misunderstanding. If you actually read some of his interviews too, you can tell that his beliefs come in large part from the times when he was cheating on his wife before he became a religious man.



Oh ya, cuz government control over what we're allowed to think is totally the way to go.



First, I'm willing to bet there's some overlap in those two groups. A lot of overlap.

But I get where you're coming from. As soon as someone becoems a celebrity, or any kind of image/icon which people might listen to, we should just lobotomize them all so they can't HAVE opinions. Avoid the whole debacle before it begins right?

I'm all for mind control, and having the government take charge. We might wanna get on this fast though, or the other side might beat us to it... then who knows, maybe OUR opinions will be the illegal ones.

Stop It! This is NOT about free speech...he has complete free speech and the government doesn't say jack shit about it.

I support free speech 100% and that includes the free speech for the people who are calling him on the carpet. You can't have one without the other. This man is NOT a victim.

I am still more shocked at his comments about black people being "happy" picking cotton as if he can speak for an entire race because he saw someone singing....WTF??????

 

[Rolyo85]

Exactly, but the attempt to silence him will only drive him and his followers to a more extreme radicalism. Their side doesn't need a martyr (vocationally/politically.) Our cause is better served by him having enough rope to hang himself.

Very different. I readily call out bigotry when I hear it on JUB, but the debate is just that, debate. You have not, and will not hear me campaigning to get anti-religion posts banned, or the person censured or censored.

And to your point, the same people who find it acceptable to bash all religion and religionists are some of the most outraged by the Duck guy's statement.

Real hate speech is more than this. This is just a reason to rant.

I'm sorry, I fail to see how remaining silent does anything for us other than validate that guy's bullshit.

And I also don't think I've ever seen or heard of a gay person trying to censor religion... To make comparisons between our outrage at pulpit-spewed hatred and the canning of that lowlife is simply absurd.

 

[G-Lexington]

Let's not confuse "censoring religion" with "pointing out how stupid you must be to believe such bullshit". Two totally different things.

lex

 

[Adrock-JD]

Let's not confuse "censoring religion" with "pointing out how stupid you must be to believe such bullshit". Two totally different things.

lex

Amen to that.

 

[nycguydowntown]

The ducks were millionaires before this show---they don't need this show for money---but the fact that A&E just announced the show will be back with new episodes that will include this duck--shows that A&E calculated that it can deal with the wrath of the gays more then the can deal with the wrath of the hillbillies of this country---

 

[bankside]

I hate the high ground, being a petty bitch is so much more satisfying, but OK, if you insist.

At least stay until you get presents.