On-Topic Edward Snowden: NSA Whistleblower Revealed, Interview

[evanrick]

Whoa -- you're deciding what a thread someone else started is about, and adding to its purpose things he didn't state in the opening post? And you're jumping on Corny for being nice about things (as opposed to just deleting your posts and letting us all know there was a crybaby issue)?





You're wrong: according to the sources you gave, most Americans do NOT agree with you, they agree with Snowden (his views, if not his actions). The issue isn't whether, given court orders, the NSA can track the communications of Americans believed to be connected with terrorist activities -- that's what most Americans think is fine -- but whether, without any court approval at all, the NSA can record and keep on file all your email, all your text messages, all your phone calls, all your faxes, and a lot more, along with those of numerous citizens of our allies, not just of known criminals and suspects.

Id have to agree with this premise, Americas opinions about warrantless wiretapping and the new NSA scandal isnt fully developed yet. To say the American people support the NSA doesn't make their activity any less unconstitutional.

 

[evanrick]

SO here is a goofy question for all of you end of the world people... the government is getting this from private corporations. SO what you are saying is that it is ok for Apple or Google or ATT to track your every movement but not for the government to look for terrorist movements in that same pile. What a crock of shit.

Nobody is saying its ok, not sure where you got than from. To assume that because something happens it suddenly makes it acceptable, thats the worst reason to justify anything if i ever heard one.

 

[Kulindahr]

For those interested in standing with him, there's an interesting pair of petitions at www.whitehouse.gov -- go there and search for the snowden petitions.

 

[JayHawk]

Its not the same. Say Prostitution and porn are illegal.
You are already guilty and caught by this spy network. What is your defense ?

That is in no way how it is being used. It could evolve into something akin to warrant less searches where the info is used in a court of law but only after our constitution is amended... which it wont be.

 

[JayHawk]

Who here has said it's okay for the companies to do this? My position has always been that if they're going to collect data on their customers, they should have to pay for every piece -- say, fifty cents per item of information, every time it's used or shared.

BTW, like LostLover, you're being deceptive about the issue: it isn't that they're looking for terrorists, it's that they're looking at everything everyone does, and saving it all in archives -- where it can, and at their whim, will be used against you.

Nobody is saying its ok, not sure where you got than from. To assume that because something happens it suddenly makes it acceptable, thats the worst reason to justify anything if i ever heard one.

Do either of you have a phone or internet service? Read the user agreement... YOU accept those conditions in that contract. THAT is who says it is alright...

Weird...

- - - Updated - - -

This is the place where the unworkable idealism meets reality on these discussion forums.... lol

 

[Lostlover]

Meanwhile the guy disappeared. Apparently he signed out of the hotel right after the interview. Maybe it was just a ruse and he had tickets to get out of HK all the time?

So, are you still using Google, Yahoo!, Microsoft, Bing, Twitter, Apple and other services from American technology companies?

BTW, if I were Snowden, and you were American, I'd be kicking myself for risking imprisonment for exposing a secret, only to find out that my fellow Americans were continuing to use Apple, Yahoo!, and Microsoft products despite their turning over of call and e-mail logs to the government.

Why protest and the people you're trying to reach, Americans, couldn't give a shit?

For the record, I think this is as much about Snowden's ego than government intrusion. I think you can call his "efforts," or runnings from responsibility, a failure due to the numerous polls that show that most Americans have no issue whatsoever with what NSA has done.

I would also like to add that it's almost comical that some people come on here complaining about the NSA, but a) say NOTHING about their own government's role in this story and b) don't have enough balls/testosterone to say that they're willing to stop supporting these companies for "spying" on Americans.

All in all, Snowden's efforts are an unequivocable failure: Americans don't care and supporters (domestic and foreign) aren't willing to stop supporting these companies that helped the NSA conduct these searches.

 

[Telstra]

So, are you still using Google, Yahoo!, Microsoft, Bing, Twitter, Apple and other services from American technology companies?

You ask this question twice.
It is the wrong question.

 

[Lostlover]

You ask this question twice.
It is the wrong question.

So, basically, you're just talk too? I guess your anger only goes so far.

 

[Lostlover]

Seriously, I'm never shocked at some people's responses: "I'm mad at such and such, but I won't do anything other than bitch and moan about it."

And, when asked what you're going to do about it, besides bitching and moaning, they respond, "It is the wrong question."

GTFO.

 

[Sausy]

Companies don't work for you. Our government theoretically does. And because the people seem okay with it at the moment...well, so what? We need a serious discussion about what the loss of privacy supposedly to protect our security entails. You give up a chunk now, it ain't gonna come back later. And the ground is set for a lot bigger chunk to be taken away from under your nose. Trusting the government with so much sensitive information is not something I want to gamble on.

 

[Corny]

LL, you really need to work on your reading comprehension skills. I already pointed it out in post #58, but I'll repeat it once again, just for you.

I have NOT been bitching about the companies doing what they were forced to. I haven't even been bitching about your law-abiding government. All the time, in this thread, I have been posting about Mr. Snowden (who, by the way, is the topic of this thread), his bravery and my admiration for him.

Your attempts at twisting this around are wretched.

 

[Lostlover]

LL, you really need to work on your reading comprehension skills. I already pointed it out in post #58, but I'll repeat it once again, just for you.

I have NOT been bitching about the companies doing what they were forced to. I haven't even been bitching about your law-abiding government. All the time, in this thread, I have been posting about Mr. Snowden (who, by the way, is the topic of this thread), his bravery and my admiration for him.

Your attempts at twisting this around are wretched.

Why don't you brush up on your reading comprehension skills...

You sure as hell haven't made a peep about Google and other American technology companies assisting the NSA...

That's why I asked you why you haven't. I feel that if you support what Snowden has done, which you've said you do, you can easily abstain from doing business with the companies that Snowden felt stole Americans' information.

You should be willing to do something...anything...besides talking about it.

On a side note: If you've gone back to using Google, Microsoft Office or called using an iPhone, then I guess you're just talk. Snowden is looking at many years in jail, and a supporter all the way from Germany, can't even abstain from using a product of a company Snowden was targeting. ***shakes head***

What good are you to him, and his "cause," if you can only offer words? (Not a rhetorical question. I'm serious.)

 

[palbert]

In an interview with the South China Morning Post Snowden says he will stay in Hong Kong and let it determine his fate.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/12/edward-snowden-south-china-morning-post_n_3428057.html

Some experts are saying that Snowden could manage to stay on Hong Kong for years or even obtain asylum. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/12/edward-snowden-hong-kong-years

On the other hand the director of Human Rights Watch warns that Hong Kong is not safe for him given its past co-operation with the US. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/11/edward-snowden-not-safe-hong-kong

 

[palbert]

Why don't you brush up on your reading comprehension skills...

You sure as hell haven't made a peep about Google and other American technology companies assisting the NSA...

That's why I asked you why you haven't. I feel that if you support what Snowden has done, which you've said you do, you can easily abstain from doing business with the companies that Snowden felt stole Americans' information.

You should be willing to do something...anything...besides talking about it.

On a side note: If you've gone back to using Google, Microsoft Office or called using an iPhone, then I guess you're just talk. Snowden is looking at many years in jail, and a supporter all the way from Germany, can't even abstain from using a product of a company Snowden was targeting. ***shakes head***

What good are you to him, and his "cause," if you can only offer words? (Not a rhetorical question. I'm serious.)

I do not see that this advances the thread topic. I certainly don't see the connection of this thread topic to using or not using Google, etc.

 

[Lostlover]

I do not see that this advances the thread topic. I certainly don't see the connection of this thread topic to using or not using Google, etc.

Corny has sided with Snowden. I asked what he's done to support Snowden, besides offer his best wishes and, well, um, we're still waiting for a response.

Some guy, you don't even know, who you said you support, risks imprisonment for "doing the right things," and you can't even say what [token] actions you'd be willing to take to show solidarity with this "whistle-blower"?

There's a big enthusiasm gap between what you say you support and what you [haven't] said you'd do to offer support.

Hell, I have seen people stop going to veterinarians because they removed skin tags off their dogs.

 

[kallipolis]

Corny has sided with Snowden. I asked what he's done to support Snowden, besides offer his best wishes and, well, um, we're still waiting for a response.

What would you suggest apart from words that offer moral support Corny (and I for that matter) should do?

That you support imprisoning Snowden it would be sensible to ask you what you are doing to expedite the incarceration of Snowden?

 

[palbert]

Corny has sided with Snowden. I asked what he's done to support Snowden, besides offer his best wishes and, well, um, we're still waiting for a response.

Some guy, you don't even know, who you said you support, risks imprisonment for "doing the right things," and you can't even say what [token] actions you'd be willing to take to show solidarity with this "whistle-blower"?

There's a big enthusiasm gap between what you say you support and what you [haven't] said you'd do to offer support.

Hell, I have seen people stop going to veterinarians because they removed skin tags off their dogs.

When the time comes I will financially support his legal defense. Right now I see no credible recipient of that commitment. I see no benefit from gratuitous gestures, such as boycotting Google would be, even if you could do it.

 

[Lostlover]

What would you suggest apart from words that offer moral support Corny (and I for that matter) should do?

That you support imprisoning Snowden it would be sensible to ask you what you are doing to expedite the incarceration of Snowden?

Well, if I knew Snowden's location, was in Asia, and had a pair of handcuffs handy, I guess I could attempt a Citizen's Arrest. Since Hong Kong is a friendly, pro-American territory, I am confident in the US-HK extradition treaty being sufficient in getting Snowden back to his home country.

He's going to have many years to think about what he's done. He's also going to hopefully think of all the "supporters" he has that offered him their well wishes, like Corny, while using Google, Twitter, Microsoft, Apple and Yahoo! for EVERYTHING in their lives.

 

[kallipolis]

Well, if I knew Snowden's location, was in Asia, and had a pair of handcuffs handy, I guess I could attempt a Citizen's Arrest. Since Hong Kong is a friendly, pro-American territory, I am confident in the US-HK extradition treaty to be sufficient in getting him back to his home country.

He's going to have many years to think about what he's done. He's also going to hopefully think of all the "supporters" he has that offered him their well wishes, like Corny, while using Google, Twitter, Microsoft, Apple and Yahoo! for EVERYTHING in their lives.

Good intentions are fine but they amount to words only.

When you finally get round to cuffing Snowden drop us a line.

 

[kallipolis]

He's going to have many years to think about what he's done. He's also going to hopefully think of all the "supporters" he has that offered him their well wishes, like Corny, while using Google, Twitter, Microsoft, Apple and Yahoo! for EVERYTHING in their lives.

The CEO of Google has publicly stated that his company was unaware that the NSA were actively snooping on Americans and has written to the NSA requesting transparency in any future request for cooperation. I'm prepared to accept at face value that the Internet giants would not have placed their relationships with their customers at risk by knowingly permitting the NSA to monitor the communications of Americans with a very wide net.

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/06/google-transparency-edward-snowden-fisa-92585.html?hp=l3