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Electric cars have a PR problem with normal everyday people

Dominus

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I'm talking about the widespread belief people still have that electric cars like the tesla cars are still a rich man's toy.

My husband recently bought a tesla model y. And the first comment people always make is wow you guys must be rich. Um, no. It costs just as much as any other car.

I'm enthusiastically waiting for my cybertruck while my minivan just reached 212,000 miles. Already preordered it. When I tell people I'm waiting for the cybertruck, again the first thing they say is you must be rich. Um, it costs even less than the F150, and nobody in the world thinks F150 drivers are rich. In fact, the cybertruck is only $39K.

If the electric car industry wants it to be the future of transportation, they need to first change people's attitude toward it. Need to somehow get people to understand that it's not a rich man's toy anymore. They cost just as much as any other car. The difference is you save an average of $8K/year on energy cost.
 
I have three main reservations about an electric car. Firstly, where will I charge it? I live in a flat (apartment) and it would not be possible to plug it in at home. Secondly, what's battery life like? I seem to need a new phone every three years because the battery is knackered and expect that anything like that would be an expensive fix for a car. Thirdly, what's the range? I can drive maybe 500 miles on one tank of petrol in my current car and then refill the tank in 5 minutes.

Can you explain the supposed saving of $8,000 per annum? I don't spend anything like £800 per annum on petrol. I really can't see how the average motorist would spend, let alone save, $8,000.
 
unloadonme said:
Can you explain the supposed saving of $8,000 per annum? I don't spend anything like £800 per annum on petrol. I really can't see how the average motorist would spend, let alone save, $8,000.

Right? I spend $650 a year on an averaging of about 15k miles a year. Now you have to add the cost of the electric to charge. So there's no way you're saving money. It's probably a wash.
 
I have three main reservations about an electric car. Firstly, where will I charge it? I live in a flat (apartment) and it would not be possible to plug it in at home. Secondly, what's battery life like? I seem to need a new phone every three years because the battery is knackered and expect that anything like that would be an expensive fix for a car. Thirdly, what's the range? I can drive maybe 500 miles on one tank of petrol in my current car and then refill the tank in 5 minutes.

Can you explain the supposed saving of $8,000 per annum? I don't spend anything like £800 per annum on petrol. I really can't see how the average motorist would spend, let alone save, $8,000.

Your post is littered with so many misunderstanding of the electric car that I think it is the best idea for you to stick with combustion engine cars forever.

I actually encourage most people to stay with internal combustion. Just know that the electric car is not a rich man's toy anymore. I certainly do not want anyone else to buy the electric car.
 
“Only 39k.”

Lol.

Where I live everybody has a pickup truck which on average cost twice as much as what I will be paying for my cybertruck. Why don't you call all these rednecks with pickup truck rich? They drive brand new Silverados in F-150.
 
I have three main reservations about an electric car. Firstly, where will I charge it? I live in a flat (apartment) and it would not be possible to plug it in at home. Secondly, what's battery life like? I seem to need a new phone every three years because the battery is knackered and expect that anything like that would be an expensive fix for a car. Thirdly, what's the range? I can drive maybe 500 miles on one tank of petrol in my current car and then refill the tank in 5 minutes.

Can you explain the supposed saving of $8,000 per annum? I don't spend anything like £800 per annum on petrol. I really can't see how the average motorist would spend, let alone save, $8,000.

Your post is littered with so many misunderstanding of the electric car that I think it is the best idea for you to stick with combustion engine cars forever.

I actually encourage most people to stay with internal combustion. Just know that the electric car is not a rich man's toy anymore. I certainly do not want anyone else to buy the electric car.

Come on. Those are all valid questions.

Tesla needs a 240v charging station. Not easy to come by for the average person. I cannot run a 240v extension cord out my front door to the street. Nor can I put a charging station on the curb.
 
Fun fact everyone in the USA has 240 v electricity. But it is 2 phase and is being split up into single phase 120 volts. Also, most people can park their cars on their own land and not on the streets
 
Come on. Those are all valid questions.

Tesla needs a 240v charging station. Not easy to come by for the average person. I cannot run a 240v extension cord out my front door to the street. Nor can I put a charging station on the curb.

I am assuming the $8k number came from the sales pitch.
 
Where I live everybody has a pickup truck which on average cost twice as much as what I will be paying for my cybertruck. Why don't you call all these rednecks with pickup truck rich? They drive brand new Silverados in F-150.

Not saying this kind of money makes one rich but it makes you wealthy. You and your boyfriend can afford really nice cars, that is great for you. My comment is treating 39k as some “only” amount, as if that isn’t a significant amount of money for a lot of Americans, especially right now where we are in an pandemic where a lot of people are relying on un-employment and stimulus money.

I don’t know the people in your neighborhood or the people, so I can’t comment on their financial situation just because they can afford pick up trucks.
 
I bought the model X a year ago and absolutely love it. My only complaint is the range is around 210 miles but mine is a 2016 and newer ones do go farther.

As for battery life Elon is concerned about that as well and that is why he is very careful with the range. All his cars can go way farther but he doesn't want battery degeneration. They have tested some Tesla's and abuse the batteries with overcharging them and one of them had over 400k miles with little maintenance. He is also trying to make them affordable for everyone.

Living in an apartment can be more difficult to charge but there is superchargers everywhere and depending on where you live it really is cheap to get a full charge which usually costs me between 6-12 bucks. At home I charge late hours and figured a full charge from completely empty would cost around 6-7 bucks. Electric cars are really the future. They are becoming cheaper to own, faster to charge and less expensive.
 
Interesting, thanks. I think my inability to charge at home and the limited range of 200 miles or so would be enough to put me off at the moment.
 
The OP's smackdown of Paul's questions should be rebutted by all. Don't start a bragging thread, make poorly worded claims about pricing and modernity, and then refuse to defend one's claims. It's simply a bragging thread unless willing to defend assertions and claims.

It's all well and good to talk about the future as if it is today, but that's simply slighting the working man and the poor.

I'm reminded of the mid-20th century when the assumption was that Americans all lived in new housing developments and had dishwashers, central air, and lived like the Brady Bunch. That was a lot of hype. It ignored fully half of the county probably, where people still lived in home with septic tanks or even outhouses, heated with coal oil/floor furnaces/space heaters/wood stoves, washed dishes by hand and used steel wool on pans, and most had not a shred of insulation until sometime in the 60's or 70's.

The same thing happened again with the tech boom. Suddenly there was a clamor to pretend like anyone without the newest smart phone was a Luddite, that books were already bonfire fodder, and that characters in movies who "drew" in holographic interfaces with computers were the state of the art. Clue. It's not here today, and smart phones, for all their hype, have brought as much trouble as benefit to societies.

And there was the recycling wave. People were shamed for not claiming the virtue of being carbon neutral. Nevermind that the plastics industry lied across the board and the government helped them to do so. MANY of the plastics sent to recycle were burned in incinerators to drive power stations or were simply dumped in the landfills anyway. Still are. Those were the "good" countries. The lazy ones threw it in the oceans.

Now, it's the electric car. It will become the "coming thing" when it is affordable, not before. MSRP on a new Ford F-150 is about $29k, but we're hardly all buying new full-sized trucks in America. Far more people buy them as status symbols than need them for doing actual work.

The poor have been compelled to keep cars for about 13 years, compared to the middle class who keep them for 9: https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a22815727/america-household-vehicle-age/

Talking about "new car prices" is a bit misleading. The average American doesn't buy a new car, but a used car, for less than $20k, and for those with low incomes, the average is closer to $9k. https://www.concannonbc.com/how-much-does-a-typical-american-actually-pay-for-a-car/

So, bragging about $40k being typical for a new car price ignores the reality that most Americans cannot afford a "new" car. And Household Finance 101 always tells you that you should avoid car payments as soon as you can. That may mean a) buying economical cars until you work your way up to higher incomes, or b) buying used cars, or c) buying a really cheap car with no payments or payments only for a year or two and trading your way up as you can afford. And of course, the fourth alternative is to not buy a car if you don't have to and use other transportation, including paying a relative/roommate/partner to transport you until you can get your own. One of the biggest traps young people fall into is buying into the brainwash that everyone must have a new or cool car to be respected in society.

And remember that those high prices for new cars are a bit like furniture prices. They have to be jacked up to ridiculous levels so that car salesmen can claim they are "saving" you $6k or $9k from MSRP, while they actually average that lower price once all rebates, discounts, and whatnot are applied. Anyone watching television can see endless car commercials and know that the companies are trying to brainwash you and spending BIG BUCKS to do so, passed on in that $29k price tag.

The electric promise is also a lie until power plants are not fueled with fossil fuels. Even though electric may be cleaner at the car, it's still dirty if it sees more coal and natural gas burned to fuel those cars. And, the batteries have to be disposed of, with heavy metals, so electric isn't ideal, only better, if we can afford them.

I'm all for moving forward, but it will be with the proper government subsidies, as the companies are still in league with Big Oil and won't be moving away from it without the government's sugar teat.
 
Your post is littered with so many misunderstanding of the electric car that I think it is the best idea for you to stick with combustion engine cars forever.

I actually encourage most people to stay with internal combustion. Just know that the electric car is not a rich man's toy anymore. I certainly do not want anyone else to buy the electric car.


Beyond its PR problem, the electric car has raised questions about the automobile itself. Example, "what kind of car do you drive and why?".

This is very important because you can only buy vehicles allowed by law in your location, and vehicle laws are changing!

Today we all have a choice of powerplants, but by 2025 some of us will discover that the choice has been made for us.

Don't believe me? Do an online search for what is already happening in the used car market.
 
I have three main reservations about an electric car. Firstly, where will I charge it? I live in a flat (apartment) and it would not be possible to plug it in at home. Secondly, what's battery life like? I seem to need a new phone every three years because the battery is knackered and expect that anything like that would be an expensive fix for a car. Thirdly, what's the range? I can drive maybe 500 miles on one tank of petrol in my current car and then refill the tank in 5 minutes.

Can you explain the supposed saving of $8,000 per annum? I don't spend anything like £800 per annum on petrol. I really can't see how the average motorist would spend, let alone save, $8,000.

Forgive me for the late reply. I've been at a family event all day and just got home at 11:30pm.

These are all valid questions if my OP was something like "hey guys you should go get a tesla". But that's not the OP, is it? In fact, in real life I always advise people against getting a tesla car.

But for the sake of the evolved conversation, let me answer your concerns.

Firstly, where will I charge it? I live in a flat (apartment) and it would not be possible to plug it in at home.
Precisely why I advise everybody to continue driving their internal combustion engine cars.

I seem to need a new phone every three years because the battery is knackered and expect that anything like that would be an expensive fix for a car.
Tesla batteries are designed to last for about 500K miles. So... I'm not sure what the concern here is about. Internal combustion engine cars regularly have failing parts like the fuel pump and such. But we don't give it a second thought when we buy one of those.

I can drive maybe 500 miles on one tank of petrol in my current car and then refill the tank in 5 minutes.
(1) Will you continuously drive all 500 miles straight through without ever stopping?
(2) Tesla cars nowadays have about 300 mile range per charge.
(3) Electric cars are meant to be charged at home overnight when you're not doing anything with it. Once you get into this routine, you actually save time because you won't be going to a gas station. My husband plugs his in every other night or so. Super chargers take about 15 minutes to charge up to 90%.

Can you explain the supposed saving of $8,000 per annum? I don't spend anything like £800 per annum on petrol. I really can't see how the average motorist would spend, let alone save, $8,000.
This is not just a sales pitch. Every tesla owner can attest to how much they save by not having to pump gas into their cars. Electricity is a lot cheaper energy source than gasoline. Electric cars are also a lot more efficient at utilizing the energy. A fully charged battery on a model Y gives the car about 300 mile range but the energy in it is equivalent to about 2 gallons of gasoline. Can 2 gallons of gasoline take you 300 miles?

My husband just told me today that even taking his car to a supercharger, it cost about $7 to charge up his car. When was the last time it took you $7 to fill up your gas tank?

But again, the topic of this thread isn't "hey, you should go out and get a tesla car now". It is about the fact that despite popular belief the tesla car isn't rich man's toy anymore. Most pickup trucks cost a hell of a lot more than $39K. So, why am I labeled as "rich" or "wealthy" for getting a $39K truck but the Mexican I hired to do my flooring who drove a brand new $80K red truck isn't called "rich" or "wealthy"?
 
@ Not Hard Up. I remember when my partner and I were driving around rural, small-town Georgia and South Carolina a few years ago, we were astounded (because we had never thought about it previously) to see billboards advertising companies that provide cash for loans taken out on cars that people already owned, not loans to buy cars.
 
Many of my clients and a one friend have Teslas. The clients charge them with batteries that store electricity generated by the solar panels we've installed in wells in the roof. It's a good system, and long-term perhaps the best one; there's no way the state of California is going to be able to produce enough electricity to power the electric cars and all-electric houses it has mandated for the near future without building more nuclear power plants, which is unlikely to happen.

I should add that the clients all have other cars that run on gasoline: an SUV (always) and perhaps a sports car, too.
 
@ Not Hard Up Almost everyone I know leases a car. I bought used cars (moving from a VW to a Volvo to BMWs and finally a Mercedes) for years until my partner and accountant convinced me that I was better off leasing. While there was a time when I would shell out $25 to $35K for a used car, there's no chance I would want or could actually pay the 60K or so (I actually don't recall what the price was) my current car retails for. So I'm now in the mode of always having a car payment, which I think is pretty common.
 
Also, most people can park their cars on their own land and not on the streets

Not in cities they can't
I live in a two bedroom house and there is no way I can run a cable to where I park my car
I can't park on my own land
In my area I would guess only 30% of car owners can park off the road. Therefore electric cars are never going to be viable in my area
 
@ Not Hard Up Almost everyone I know leases a car. I bought used cars (moving from a VW to a Volvo to BMWs and finally a Mercedes) for years until my partner and accountant convinced me that I was better off leasing. While there was a time when I would shell out $25 to $35K for a used car, there's no chance I would want or could actually pay the 60K or so (I actually don't recall what the price was) my current car retails for. So I'm now in the mode of always having a car payment, which I think is pretty common.

Yes, but again, like the OP, you are not average. You are in a high paying profession at the peak of your income. You can choose to invest your money or buy the new car, but it's purely a matter of choice.

As for Volvos and Beemers and Mercedeses, those are obviously premium cars, so again, a choice.

The working class family must buy what they can afford, which certainly isn't $60k or even $30k.

And the wise among them simply buy an used car and work on trading up, not keeping a payment going. Basically, unless you are buying outright, it is almost always a mistake to go through a dealer if you don't have a flush transportation budget.

Also, the working class in cities are often right out of owning cars due to the cost of parking, taxes, and other costs added on city dwellers.

I know I make six figures annually, and have since 2006, but I don't waste my money on a premium vehicle if I can get a used great car at half the cost of a new one. My most recent buy was a 2015 Honda Fit. It's a bit like a Tardis, with more room inside than out, but I almost never have passengers, so the economy is preferable to luxury since I'm not currently taking long trips, and when I do, I sometimes rent a car because it's business or just smarter for the trip in question. I paid about $15k for a car with only 20k miles on it, and am only putting about 10k on it per year.

I also own a 1996 F-150 pickup for chores since I have a 2-acre plot, and I paid just under $8k for it in 2012, with around 90k on it. Today, It only has about 104k. Before I had my own truck, I was fortunate to have a friend who loaned me hers as needed, and I've always loaned mine out anytime I could help someone.

So, I've spent about $23k for two vehicles over eight years and couldn't be happier. My comprehensive insurance costs me another $1200 a year, and gas is only $40 per week in my household budget, but always underrun that on average, as I only live seven miles from work. Amortized, I guess my annual cost is around $250 per car per month, insurance/maintenance/fuel included, and that cost continues to go down as I keep them. In eight more years, the avg. would be below $200.

I may upgrade before long, but used cars really haven't gone down any, and that speaks quite a lot about the economy. I suspect there is a dam of them being held by dealers, as they obviously hurt new car sales. If I'm right, the market will drop in the new year and better deals will be available as people have more confidence with a stable government again, taxes or no.

My income absolutely means I could buy a new premium vehicle, but I think it a foolish expense and a status sign. I'm more than happy to buy someone else's used status for half the price or less. Others have different finances and different priorities. I welcome electric, too, but that will come when the government gets behind it.

I also don't like the instability of having a car payment if anything were to happen to my health or my job. It's enough to have a mortgage. I don't want the added stress of other payments for luxuries. As a single man with no parents or inheritance coming, it's all me and I don't like feeling more vulnerable than necessary. That feeling is exacerbated by coming from a family where almost none of them have decent incomes or manage finances well.
 
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