Ever Been Molested........

[bayern20]

Actually, I experienced both. Two different experiences.
I was molested by my stepfather.
And no, to me it NEVER felt good. I always felt weird and scared when I was molested. Sure, the stimulation does have an effect, but it came with guilt and it was never a pleasant or sexy experience. I was grossed out by him and I always knew it was wrong.

I understand. Just passing along what Oprah said (with her molestation experience ) Because she was of the opinion that most people dont understand the negative effects of molestation because most of the time it feels good.(like regular sex) And therefore, that could be an explanation of why it keeps happening again and again (because the molested because the molesters)

 

[bayern20]

Well, it happens over and over again just like other crimes. That's almost impossible to explain.
But I did leave one thought out. For a person to want to molest children, they would have to find them sexually attractive. I think that's an individual thing. Not something you pass on. For most of us the idea of sex with children is unimaginable and disgusting. If people who are molested become molesters then why do most of us (that have been molested) find it disgusting?
I think it comes down to the individuals and their psychological and sexual disfunctions or sickness...ex. nature not nuture.
And you can't rationalize that one experience fits all (Oprah).

You could be right.

I cant say all experiences fit Oprah, but molestation has a certain experience to it. So what she is saying is pretty much true in all cases. I understand you said you found your stepfather disgusting..it is possible that others found their offender quiet "attractive" and "normal" in some sense. I mean, at the end of the day, who (the look of the person) doesn't matter but when you take the most normal, and best looking person in the world for example..it changes the experience. Still weird, wrong, but the person was not disgusting, and seemed "normal" by all counts. So maybe that was her situation.

So what I'm saying is, not all offenders are these creepy, beared, 300 pound guys..some of them look normal, act normal, and look good.

 

[Piquechampion]

^

 

[tallguy297]

Guys....

Can you see whats happening here? Can you see how this thing so easily spirals out of control? Semantics and pedantics do nothing to improve the debate. No one is right, no one is wrong. No 2 people will ever react or handle this the same way.

The name for this doesn't matter. The term is abuse.

Elvin is speaking from his experince. It doenst matter the extent of the abuse. Theres no prize for bieng more abused than another. His experinces have shaped him to be the person he is today, just as mine have shaped me.

The extent or depravity or length of time of our abuse doesnt change the fact that we lost our innocence our ability to trust...and quite often the ability to love both ourselves and others.

I have seen and spoken to guys who had nothing more than someone in authority feel their ass inappropriately who become sheltered and fearful, introverted and ashamed to guys who were forcibly raped who have become confident proud citizens. I have spoken to guys who treat sex like a game and others who hold it as the highest virtue.

Are any of them wrong? Are they right? Is any one of them less valuable than the other?

I know that the fleeting pleasure that I experienced at orgasm with the man that abused me was instantly replaced by weeks of guilt and shame. I knew it was wrong. At 8 I knew it was wrong. You just know some things no matter how old you were. It wouldn't have mattered who it was. Where it was. Or how often it was.

I would gladly trade those seconds for the wasted years of my life that I have wondered and feared. Thats a given.

There's no point finger pointing. Theres no point in accusing each other of not understanding...because the reality is unless this has happened to you you wont.

Just understand the strength that it takes guys like Elvin and all the other amazing people on this and the other threads to speak out. A strength that can take a life time to discover.

Any abuse - little or large is abhorrent. Its effects are reaching long lasting and devastating. The loss of trust and most importantly the loss of innocence is a sentence that the innocent wear.

As much as I respect Oprah, her experiences were her experiences. Her life lessons were hers. I admire her openness and her honesty. But that doesnt mean her experiences transpose to others.

Bayern... not in anyway to lesson the debate here, consider this... The reports of male rape % wise to authorities are dramatically less than male/female. The reason? Shame. Guilt. Fear. It doesnt mean the physical offense was better or worse. But it does show how much greater the emotional effects can be.

Again no one is right or wrong... but no one knows how anyone else can feel or react.

You guys all have my admiration for the strength to speak out, the desire to debate, the desire to question. All of you.

Trust me...it makes a difference. Dont ever let this topic be hidden again because thats where it gets its power.

 

[Joshua_me]

Let me put it to you this way since I want to be honest here:

My GOD.

What a brave post from you, Elvin.

 

[Joshua_me]

I don't have the strength or the sheer bravery to post like Elvin did, but I
was beaten, molested and raped as well.

The beatings came from my step-dad who used to hold me and my Mom at gunpoint and threaten to kill us. Trust me, seeing your Mom just a triggers pull away from being killed right in front of you is something that never leaves you...I got to the point that I was wishing he'd just kill me first so I wouldn't have to see anything else. This bastard also took great joy in walking in on me in the shower and would grab the soap and try to start jacking me off...
(I was all of 11 at the time)

The rape part is another story altogether, and I can't really talk about that now.

 

[nickkkkkk]

Being molested in anyway or raped or beaten when someone is a child is a life changing occurence. A childs life is forever changed and there is no way to get back what was taken or ripped away. Many like myself spend their whole lives trying and searching for "something" to bring back that innocence that was ripped away. Trust is gone forever, relationships are a burden and anger is an everyday emotion. I appreciate all the posts on this subject because it makes me feel like I am not alone in my journey to overcome what happened to me as a young child and teenager.

I have never spoken about what happened to me EVER to anyone except to therapists. I am sure I never will...its too horrific to share with anyone. However, once again this opportunity to post about this is helpful to me and I am sure to many others. I only wish there was a way to end all abuse and molestation forever so no other child would have to suffer like so many have already.

I know my post is somewhat choppy and rambles on some but I wanted to post something about this...thanks for the opportunity. I pray that all of you that had to endure abuse and molestation as a child find peace someday.

 

[mabby7]

... you know what ... i really wanted to say that i hate my uncle ... but i really don't ... i considered him my friend ... and will always be my friend ... i've tried to think about why he did those things to me ... trying to see it from his perspective ...

maybe he was going through a rough patch back then ... i don't know ... though nothing makes what he did ... right ...

also, sometimes i wanted to think that it was all "innocent" fun ... i tried to justify the things that he did to me ... but thinking about it ... i did feel scared ... and frightened ... but there was also mixed feelings of him being my friend ... and how well he took care of me while my parents were at work ... i was so confused ... hmmm ...

anyway ... his life has been going downhill lately ... and i've been thinking if he might go back to that state he was in before ... this makes me scared for his children ... he could do those things that he did to me ... i wish i could do something ... but they live far away ... :-( ...

 

[bayern20]

As much as I respect Oprah, her experiences were her experiences. Her life lessons were hers. I admire her openness and her honesty. But that doesnt mean her experiences transpose to others.

Bayern... not in anyway to lesson the debate here, consider this... The reports of male rape % wise to authorities are dramatically less than male/female. The reason? Shame. Guilt. Fear. It doesnt mean the physical offense was better or worse. But it does show how much greater the emotional effects can be.

Again no one is right or wrong... but no one knows how anyone else can feel or react.

You guys all have my admiration for the strength to speak out, the desire to debate, the desire to question. All of you.

Trust me...it makes a difference. Dont ever let this topic be hidden again because thats where it gets its power.

Very well put and I appreciate the control you show.

Personally, I think molestation is very under-reported. I think its pretty damn common on some level.

I might have told this story, but anyways, I'll tell it again. I still am on a personals/dating/hook-ups site from my country (in Eastern Europe) It has everyone on the same site, the heteros, gays, lesbs, etc. Every once in awhile, for whatever reason, you will get girls that are 14, 15, 16 on these sites. Most of those guys there are looking to hook up. In any case, I decided to email this one telling her to be careful because there are some sickos out there..and obviously I asked why she was on there at all. In any case, we pm'ed back and forth a few times, and she told me something remarkable. She was on that site about a day or so, and she had over 100messages.(not even that big of a site) This is not a strange site. By all accounts, this is the most normal personals related site I've been to. I was honestly just all out shocked. And I asked her how old most of these guys were..thinking maybe its mostly the 18/19yr olds..which is not much different, but a bit more understandable..the majority of these guys were 21 and over.(maybe 85%)

It got me thinking about something. Is this just hid well but occuring in fairly significant numbers? I mean 60yrs ago, you couldn't find a gay guy, but was there no gay guys? There was, probably the same numbers, but people hid it. People married, but had gay sex on the side, and people just found ways to hide it. Thinking about the fear that comes with molestation..and that many times its a person that YOU KNOW doing it..nobody wants to tell. It breaks up families, there is fear, and overall a very weird situation. When its not a family member, society looks down on it.

From what I have seen..I am almost positive that this occurs at least in 10 to 15% of the population. (in verying degrees) I dont think its that uncommon at all.

 

[bayern20]

You clearly stated that because a molester is "good looking" that the child could have enjoyed it

No, I did not. I stated that many people think people that molest are these 300 pound, bearded, fat, ugly guys..meaning we always know who they are. They are just these sick, disgusting people who cant get someone their own age. I want to get rid of that myth. Many times these people are normal in every sense of the word, they act normally, and they may look like very good. There is no limit. I never suggested that as a result it would be enjoyable.

And if you read, my statement on the molested becoming molesters is stated by a lot of people. But after you posted saying "there are just people who have this predisposition" to like young children..I thought "hmm..that could be it too". I am not proffesing to have the answers, just stating what I have heard, and the possibilities. It is very clear if you look at my whole text I am not acting as a expert on the subject.

 

[bayern20]

You said that not everyone experience was like Oprah's..what do you mean?

 

[bayern20]

I have to get going soon, so my points were:

- Yes, I do worry about people that have been molested. I think there is a chance they could do it themselve. That is just my opinion on everything I have heard. I dont have a strong opinion on it though and its not a sure opinion.

The difference between molestation and rape is that, like Oprah's case, it can feel good like regular sex. She stated THAT in itself is a big part of the confusion. You feel guily, you feel confused, because it feels like regular sex a lot of the time. But later she learned the real damage, the emotional damage, and how she was scarred for life.


- Molestation is wrong, PERIOD. However, the experiences are varied. Meaning there is no said perpetrator. (many times its your own family doing it..they are normal people in all aspects) They are not always these fat, ugly, disgusting guys..sometimes they are attractive. Again, I dont mean that would make the experience better, but saying, it makes it different. As the poster above said..why is that we treat girls getting molested so much different than boys? Same type of thing. I know the REASONS we do, but is there really a difference? Molestation is molestation.

 

[bayern20]

And, IMO, the fact that you are denying PROOF..something many people state, aside from Oprah, is quiet scary. I understand your experience might have been different, but to say that these are not real feelings for others molested..you should feel ashamed..ASHAMED. People are taken advantage of..just like you..and they dont control themselves..sex is sex..so they feel good when they dont want something. That is sad, but that is how they feel. THAT is essence is the traumatizing part.

But IMO, if you forget the facts, and you deny the experience, you are setting yourself up to do the same thing. Part of getting over it is realizing these things, and realizing that is part of what makes coming out and saying you were molested so hard.

I worry about people like you.

 

[teh_nathan]

I don't quite understand people who are so quick to make judgements about one group of people, as if they know all the facts.

You can't even begin to know what you're talking about unless you were raped/molested/abused yourself. You can't possibly know how it feels as a victim unless you were one yourself. You have no clue, no idea.

 

[Diodorus]

[F Antiqua]Sometimes it may be hard to realize you were molested. But looking back upon my life I realize, "Yeah I was." A slightly older cousin in my case. He was probably about 10 and I was 8. Good little Baptist boy. (me not him) He started by wanting me to pull my pants down. I remember saying "No." First time he accepted that, later on as he was persistent, the pants came down and it went no further than some fondling for some time. This was an activity I knew was our secret. I wasn't traumatized or anything.of that particular nature. It was pleasurable almost always.[/font][F Antiqua]There was one night, however where our parents had something they were doing and my cousin and I spent the night together in the same bed and he wanted to penetrate me. I wasn't having any of that, clenched my butt cheeks and he didn't get anywhere. He was a bit frustrated and jacked me rather roughly, which was a drag because I was looking forward to having the whole night to ourselves for some fun. I just wound up with a sore dick.[/font][F Antiqua] As we aged we would always go to my room ,I had the whole upstairs of our farm house to myself so plenty of privacy, wrestle around and end up "pulling dicks" as I called it to myself. I was a bit nieve and wasn't quite sure what that sticky stuff was on his cock. Did I say a bit? Really nieve is more like it. We never said a word just lie there on our backs stare at the ceiling until he got off. I don't ever remember him seeing to it that I got off. He got a girlfriend when he was about 16 or 17 and that was it for him. Didn't need me any longer....That kind of sucked, but hey farm boys are a horny lot so I had other playmates and it was far more mutual so I wan't heartbroken or anything but we are not close at all. Didn't see him again untill my mother passed away. Haven't seen him since.

I did have one neighbor kid that wrestled me down, got me from behind and grabbed my goods. He was bigger so I couldn't run away but his shins payed a heavy price, as I was kicking as hard as I could and he let go.

My heart goes out to all of you that had such horrendous experiences..
[/font]

 

[Diodorus]

I wanted to post this separately as that last one was probably the longest post ever for me here on JUB. Below are the lyrics from a song by one of my favorite female singers , Iris Dement, and I think she expresses the subject phenomenally well.

LETTER TO MOM (Iris DeMent)
(c) 1996 Songs of Iris ASCAP
I wrote my mother yesterday 'cause I had some things that I had to say
and I know that when she reads them she's gonna cry
But in the end I hope she sees
that I'm just trying to break free
'cause I've been walking 'round with secrets now, too long

Back when I was barely ten Mom brought home a new boyfriend
and I know that times were bad and he made her feel good
but one night he climbed into my bed
and he left me wishing I was dead
and I've been walking 'round with secrets now, too long

You say I'm digging up the past and it's not wise to go back
but for me it's just as close as yesterday
and I'm not the kind for breaking rules
and I'm not wanting to be cruel
I've just been walking 'round with secrets now, too long

All my life I've felt ashamed, 'cause I thought I was the one to blame
and I vowed to God that no one else would ever know
how he crushed my childish pride
and left me tears that never dried
and I've been walking 'round with secrets now, too long

You say I'm digging up the past and it's not wise to go back
but for me it's just as close as yesterday
and I'm not the kind for breaking rules
and I'm not wanting to be cruel
I've just been walking 'round with secrets now, too long
and I've just been walking 'round with secrets now, too long

If anyone wants to hear the song PM me and I'll send you an mp3 of it.


​

 

[tallguy297]

Well maybe its time to lose the self control. I'm used to the no flame zones and have actually forced my self to reign in my ability to "let rip" but maybe its time...

Semantics DO NOT HAVE A PLACE IN THIS ARGUMENT. They lessen the experiences of some and diminish the hurt and damage that these experiences can cause. To argue about when some term or another should apply ignores the damage that any of these acts inflicts on the victim.

I couldnt give a rats arse as to whether someone was forced to touch, to perform oral sex, to masterbate or to be penetrated by another. IT DOESNT MATTER. Each and every one of these victims will react and respond differently.

To say that the effect of one sort of act doesn't impact as much as another is both crazy and ignorant.

To suggest any slight chance or possibility that anyone would enjoy these acts as a child when they are FORCED into it is worse. Even in the most brutal assaults our bodies can betray our minds... but if you truly believe thats a sign of enjoyment then you are so far wrong you shouldn't be having this debate.

I respect you guys...I respect this debate.

But to mindlessly spurt things you think you remember, facts that might be true, opinions of celebrities or otherwise just shows a lack of understanding.

I remember gagging. My mouth streched so badly it bled. I remember not knowing that someone could be so big... I remember it like yesterday yet it was 28 years ago. I remember pain. But you know what... those things healed.

I remember crying and the shame and the guilt. I remember "dont tell your parents... its our secret", I remember hating myself, I remember how often it was, where its was. But some of those things are still healing.

And thats why the level of abuse, the type and the nature doesn't matter.

The loss of trust, the instilling of fear and suspicion, the lack of confidence - they are the real damage caused by abuse. They are the real effects.

To suggest that as victims we will reoffend is offensive. I'm sure some do...but my guess is that they would have anyway. No one with any degree of respect and value for life would treat another this way.

Bayern, I dont know you but I respect you. So I'm not going to rain down on you.

But I will say this. You have made some dangerous generalizations. You have repeated things that you've heard without thinking them through. You have suggested things about the character and nature of people in this thread that are based on nothing other than ignorance emotion and ego.

Listen and look at what these guys have said. Understand the motives of someone like Elvin opening up and baring his soul. None of us want to... we dont wear signs nor do we look for sympathy.

But we all who have posted hope this might make a difference. That others who might feel alone realize they are not. That no matter the type sort or extent of the abuse it doesnt matter. They will be accepted respected trusted and cared for.

And that we might help others who havent been abused learn more, accept more, care more and become more.

These guys have trusted you with the deepest darkest secrets of their lives. Try and understand the courage it takes to do that. Theres guys here who have told no one this stuff before. Dont get into an argument for the hell of it. Dont assume Oprah or anyone else is right or wrong. Theres no winners or losers.

Just dont judge us and condemn us... and we'll try not to do it to you.

 

[nickkkkkk]

Well maybe its time to lose the self control. I'm used to the no flame zones and have actually forced my self to reign in my ability to "let rip" but maybe its time...

Semantics DO NOT HAVE A PLACE IN THIS ARGUMENT. They lessen the experiences of some and diminish the hurt and damage that these experiences can cause. To argue about when some term or another should apply ignores the damage that any of these acts inflicts on the victim.

I couldnt give a rats arse as to whether someone was forced to touch, to perform oral sex, to masterbate or to be penetrated by another. IT DOESNT MATTER. Each and every one of these victims will react and respond differently.

To say that the effect of one sort of act doesn't impact as much as another is both crazy and ignorant.

To suggest any slight chance or possibility that anyone would enjoy these acts as a child when they are FORCED into it is worse. Even in the most brutal assaults our bodies can betray our minds... but if you truly believe thats a sign of enjoyment then you are so far wrong you shouldn't be having this debate.

I respect you guys...I respect this debate.

But to mindlessly spurt things you think you remember, facts that might be true, opinions of celebrities or otherwise just shows a lack of understanding.

I remember gagging. My mouth streched so badly it bled. I remember not knowing that someone could be so big... I remember it like yesterday yet it was 28 years ago. I remember pain. But you know what... those things healed.

I remember crying and the shame and the guilt. I remember "dont tell your parents... its our secret", I remember hating myself, I remember how often it was, where its was. But some of those things are still healing.

And thats why the level of abuse, the type and the nature doesn't matter.

The loss of trust, the instilling of fear and suspicion, the lack of confidence - they are the real damage caused by abuse. They are the real effects.

To suggest that as victims we will reoffend is offensive. I'm sure some do...but my guess is that they would have anyway. No one with any degree of respect and value for life would treat another this way.

Bayern, I dont know you but I respect you. So I'm not going to rain down on you.

But I will say this. You have made some dangerous generalizations. You have repeated things that you've heard without thinking them through. You have suggested things about the character and nature of people in this thread that are based on nothing other than ignorance emotion and ego.

Listen and look at what these guys have said. Understand the motives of someone like Elvin opening up and baring his soul. None of us want to... we dont wear signs nor do we look for sympathy.

But we all who have posted hope this might make a difference. That others who might feel alone realize they are not. That no matter the type sort or extent of the abuse it doesnt matter. They will be accepted respected trusted and cared for.

And that we might help others who havent been abused learn more, accept more, care more and become more.

These guys have trusted you with the deepest darkest secrets of their lives. Try and understand the courage it takes to do that. Theres guys here who have told no one this stuff before. Dont get into an argument for the hell of it. Dont assume Oprah or anyone else is right or wrong. Theres no winners or losers.

Just dont judge us and condemn us... and we'll try not to do it to you.

You said what I wanted to say and you said it well! Thanks

 

[johnboy978]

this is a very difficult thing for anyone who's went thru it. I am sorry for all you guys. I too was molested when I was 12. My cousin was 16. He lived right next door to us. He was pretty much my only friend. It started innocently enough. He showed me how to masterbate. Then one day he grabbed me and started jerking me off. He put my hand on him. It felt good, but i felt bad afterwards. I avoided him for a while. When I saw him again he said we were gonna do something new. He told me to lick him. I said no way. That's when he shoved me down, grabbed my head and forced himself into my mouth. He kept using me till he was finished. Then he told me he would hurt me if I told anyone. I was scared, confused,etc. Here was my best friend and he did this to me. It soon became a regular thing. It really messed with my head. Then came the night he held me down on the bed and fucked me. I was crying and yelling the whole time. after he was done he hugged me and stroked my hair till we both feel asleep. I was afraid to tell anyone, but something was happening inside me. I was falling for my cousin and I started to like the sex with him.

I have since gotten over the pain,the humiliation, the confusion. I recently had a long conversation with him. I wasn't looking for an apology, I just wanted him to fess up. I told him I fell for him and when he moved away it really tore me up. He started crying and told me that he was sorry. He was molested by an older friend and he had similar feelings after a while. He was looking for a way to cope. He said he has felt like shit all these years for what he did. I told him I forgave him for everything.

It was shitty that it happened, It sucks, but life goes on you have to put the past in the past. and move on.

 

[johnboy978]

elvin to answer your question. No way I could never do that to anyone. What I went thru I wouldn't wish on anyone.