Everyone should have...

[unloadonme]

Nothing in life is entirely free. It all has to be paid for one way or another.

 

[Ram]

It should be a right for everyone to have accommodation and access to utilities but, as much as I want it to, it shouldn't be free.

 

[QBranch]

Hmm... Well, if your house and your food are free, why are you ever going to work and contribute to society? And where is that house and that food going to come from? Those builders ain't gonna work for free (again, if I have my free house, why would I work for free?) and neither are those farmers...

 

[rareboy]

^ This.

Only children and those who have put in their lifetime of work deserve anything for 'free'.

Everyone else has a basic responsibility to provide some act of service to their community to deserve material support.

The idea that housing and utilities somehow don't get paid for is naive beyond imagining.

 

[Swellegant]

I think it would depend on where one draws the line at "basic utility." I mean, I think electricity and water should be part of one's rent, as it is below human standards to have a home with neither; but living outdoors is also below human standards, so by that same token, basic indoor living should be free.

And since nothing is actually "free," who would pay for these accommodations? I mean, it costs money to generate electricity and to pump water into houses. Somebody would have to pay for that; and if not the individual user, who?

I do think that utilities should be regulated to within an inch of their lives, and I further believe they should be operated as not-for-profit; but unless the government takes it over, it can't happen... and if the government does take it over, it will be laden with all sorts of idiotic oversight and bureaucracy and end up costing more than for-profit utilities.

 

[Ram]

Could you expand on that? Why shouldn't it be free? I'm looking for reasons why it shouldn't be so that i can analyse my own opinions.

If I can dig my own well, I don't see why I should pay for it. But modern utilities need infrastructure, manpower support, research, extraction and in some cases, a whole lot of proper cleaning, to ensure you get clean water, electricity etc. etc.

 

[Ram]

I don't see how so. We have 'free' health care, we have 'free' libraries and 'free school meals to the poorest.

None of these are actually free, they are just paid out of income tax. I'm wondering why society doesn't use income tax to provide ''free'' 'basics'.

But it's not just about you. It's also about maintaining the hospitals that give out free health care and the libraries that you don't pay for and other non-housing infrastructure and amenities.

If my income tax includes such extra costs to keep a country running, I might as well transfer my entire pay to the government.

I rather be accountable for my own expenditure of resources.

 

[wonderwort]

In a perfect world.....yes.

But we dont live in a perfect world.

 

[BearBoi]

... a penis!

Oh, wait, what did you say?

...basic accomodation with basic utilities, FREE.

Yes? No? Your thoughts.

Sure, and while we are at it, let's do away with money and go back to a barter system based on the exchange homespun crafts. I hear honey was once highly valued. Are you allergic to bees?

My point is: nothing is free. It never has been. We are creates that require goods and services, and to acquire them, we must provide goods and services.

If it were not in the form of money, it would be something else.

So the best you can do is accept the fact that you require money, and work to earn it to improve your quality of living. Along the way, learn what you can about properly managing what you have so as to have more of it for the future. Do not use credit cards if you can avoid it; invest in secure savings bonds; speak to your local bank manager about better ways to help your interest grow.

If you do these things, than you won't have to spend time wishing for things to be free, because you will be able to afford them and live in reality.

 

[SLOPPYSECONDS]

it classified

titters

ans is perfect world

 

[unloadonme]

I'm wondering why society doesn't use income tax to provide ''free'' 'basics'.

Society, at least in the UK, does use income tax to provide free basics for those who can't afford to pay for themselves. Local authorities have a legal obligation to provide accommodation for everyone who needs it and the state pays benefits, which are sourced from taxation, intended to be sufficient to pay for basic necessities. The NHS provides free health care for all, regardless of ability to pay.

 

[Ram]

I agree. But, if your country, is YOUR country, why doesn't everybody come to the conclusion that through each of us contributing through our jobs, that basic human needs are covered by our country through our income tax rather than individually having to pay.

The idea of paying larger contributions from our paypackets in return for paying less bills doesn't seem unappealing to me or unworkable. I think it would go some way towards narrowing the ever widening gap between rich and poor too.

See post 11. I don't think I want to pay higher taxes.

The gap between rich and poor is not created by their access to utilities so I don't think it will narrow it. Everyone in my country gets to drink clean water and have 24-hour electricity but the rich/poor thing is worse than ever. It's how the markets fucks with us that is causing this gap.

 

[QBranch]

I didn't say anything about food being free. Just shelter and basic utilities like water and electricity.

Bleh, I used a crappy example, but the point should still stand...

 

[FPNY]

Everybody has to pay for the services you use. My property has its own well, problem is if you want water in the house you have to pump it, which uses electricity. Electric isn't free. As many have said nothing is free.

I have no children, yet i pay a hefty school tax bill, who would pay the teachers and everyone it takes to run a successful school district.

It's a good idea, but it's also a pipe dream. There is no such thing as a free lunch....

 

[sumthenliekdis]

At the same time what if your house catches on fire or your identity gets stolen?

 

[barnbuddy]

well, birds, elephants, fish dolphins

they all live rent free.

back, I mean back in the day, I suppose humans did as well

then some obnoxious son of a bitch came up with private property

 

[unloadonme]

Sorry Mitch, but you're living in cloud cockoo land. Your system was tried in Russia for most of the twentieth century and it didn't work.

Where is the incentive and rewards for those who have no hope of anything other than a minimum wage job from getting up and finding one? If people not working can claim benefits to cover rent and council tax, and who don't pay income tax and NI cos they are unemployed, and recieve cash for a basic grocery and utility budget, and who don't have the responsibility of going to work, where is the incentive for them to change?

You've answered your own question here:

A person who earns four times my salary pays a heftier amount in income tax, but they don't have any more expense paying rent or council tax if they live in a similiar property to me, and the utility bills are the same. The proportion of income that filters back to government from the wealthier is hugely lower than that of those on low income.

A person with a higher salary has more disposable income after paying for necessities which they can spend on the nicer things in life. That surely is the incentive to work hard and do well.

 

[barnbuddy]

Sorry Mitch, but you're living in cloud cockoo land. Your system was tried in Russia for most of the twentieth century and it didn't work.
.

well, except for the creation of a modern economy from the shambles of the Czars

and helping the US and UK beat the Nazis

and competing in the space race

but, buy your logic, didn't the free market system "fail" from 1929 - 1930's?

it had to be saved by those New Deal socialists? (remember US taxes stayed high well into 50's and 60's)

even the Roman Emperors were smart enough to give to common folk bread and circuses

 

[moniker]

Wow, what a great way to encourage energy conservation! It's all free free free!

 

[star-warrior]

If these become the automatic 'right' of everyone, then what responsibilities must they have to uphold in order to enjoy the benefits? Can you do crimes against the community and still be able to live there, as it is an automatic right?