Excessive phyiscal contact from a staight guy?

[lookin4sum1icantrust]

p700granat, I hope the best of luck with you finding the right guy! & Congrats on telling your friend.

 

[p700granat]

p700granat, I hope the best of luck with you finding the right guy!

Thanks.

& Congrats on telling your friend.

Huh? Which friend? What did I tell? I'm confused.

 

[lookin4sum1icantrust]

Thanks.



Huh? Which friend? What did I tell? I'm confused.

I must of read it wrong. lol I thought u finally told your furry friend?

 

[p700granat]

Something amazing happpened in the past two days. Sunday after I verified my furry friend is not gay (because he said so, which I take that at its face value. Sorry rareboy/atomw), I kind of despaired and put up an ad on craigslist. Yeah, I know it's stupid. Nothing happened that day until I got a reply from someone who claimed to be a senior from my school. I first hesitated as I still didn't want anyone around me to know. Then I thought wtf and decided to chat with him online. Soon we found out that we actually met and talked to each other before, and we still occasionally see other around campus! We are both so surprised because neither of us has suspected the other to be gay. We ended up chatting all night till almost 5am, and we found that except he's an Engish/Classics major and I study Computer Science, we have so many things in common. And we're basically in the same boat when it comes to sexuality/relationship issues: both closeted, rather quite, non-flamboyant by nature, dislike the "gay scene" at our school, had secret crushes on guys whom we had doubts about their sexuality, and despaired as we about to leave one of most liberal universities in the country without finding a bf. We chatted again last night. We talked about things like our awkard responses when our straight friends talk about girls (and we both find girls' breasts kind of digusting), how we deal with our parents when asked about our "girl friend", and how we had throught about changing the "interested" field of our facebook profile into "men" for a short time and see people's responses. In the end we were even commenting on the facebook pictures of our crushes! It was such a relieve to be able to talk about this as I never had the chance before. He's the second person (and the first gay guy) I ever came out to, and I'm his fifth or sixth person to come out to. It's still hard to believe that I am talking about such things with this quite, innocent-looking, English/Classics major I thought I knew, and he said he felt the same thing about me. And God knows how many people like us are out there.

We'll chat again tonight and we both are looking forward to hang out after he came back from Spring Break this weekend. By the way, I also introduced him to JUB, so we might see him around soon!

 

[Lube]

Glad to hear you talked for hours with your new gay buddy. Isn't it wonderful coming out like that to someone? All that baggage and thoughts you kept inside...can finally all be let loose.

But think about that.

You said your sexuality is only 1% of you (in an earlier post). Do you really believe that now? After venting about all this stuff you've kept bottled up inside you, isn't it a lot more than 1%? Sure, it's not 99%, but isn't it more like 15 or 20% of who you are? Why are you denying this to everyone around you?

I decided to catch the opportunity and eventually guided the conversation to his highschool best-friend's coming-out to him (see my post #45). Then he said what I really need to hear: "... that like really messed up my day ... because he's my best friend ... but I'm not ... like .......... gay". The last word came out after a long pause, but it's clear enough for me, and I take it for its full, literal meaning (I set this criteria for me long time ago) .

Run as fast as you can. This guy is in denial.

Why? Well, jeez he has a history of having friends who turn out to be gay (although he doesn't know about you). Sure straight guys have gay friends and vice versa, but if there's a trend of gay friends (OK, 2 is hardly a trend, but then I don't know any of his other friends) that's the best (unintentional) gaydar there is. Lots of my friends came out of the closet later in life like I did (men and women).

Also, why was it so hard for him to say the word... "gay"? Straight guys shouldn't care, right? *He's* not gay; his friend is. Why the dramatic pause? And why would it "mess up his day"??

It sounds like he's not going to be receptive to your coming out to him (because of his own denial or, perhaps, homophobia). So you'll probably just have to deal with it.

If there were any chance, I would tell you to proceed slowly, and never talk about the word "gay" or "homosexual". Just do stuff, don't talk about it. That's the fastest way to scare him away.

 

[Steely]

Something amazing happpened in the past two days. Sunday after I verified my furry friend is not gay (because he said so, which I take that at its face value. Sorry rareboy/atomw), I kind of despaired and put up an ad on craigslist. Yeah, I know it's stupid. Nothing happened that day until I got a reply from someone who claimed to be a senior from my school. I first hesitated as I still didn't want anyone around me to know. Then I thought wtf and decided to chat with him online. Soon we found out that we actually met and talked to each other before, and we still occasionally see other around campus! We are both so surprised because neither of us has suspected the other to be gay. We ended up chatting all night till almost 5am, and we found that except he's an Engish/Classics major and I study Computer Science, we have so many things in common. And we're basically in the same boat when it comes to sexuality/relationship issues: both closeted, rather quite, non-flamboyant by nature, dislike the "gay scene" at our school, had secret crushes on guys whom we had doubts about their sexuality, and despaired as we about to leave one of most liberal universities in the country without finding a bf. We chatted again last night. We talked about things like our awkard responses when our straight friends talk about girls (and we both find girls' breasts kind of digusting), how we deal with our parents when asked about our "girl friend", and how we had throught about changing the "interested" field of our facebook profile into "men" for a short time and see people's responses. In the end we were even commenting on the facebook pictures of our crushes! It was such a relieve to be able to talk about this as I never had the chance before. He's the second person (and the first gay guy) I ever came out to, and I'm his fifth or sixth person to come out to. It's still hard to believe that I am talking about such things with this quite, innocent-looking, English/Classics major I thought I knew, and he said he felt the same thing about me. And God knows how many people like us are out there.

We'll chat again tonight and we both are looking forward to hang out after he came back from Spring Break this weekend. By the way, I also introduced him to JUB, so we might see him around soon!

Aww. Well see, one door closed and another one opened.

 

[Agent-Neon]

My advice for future would be if there's ever a trace of doubt, just stay clear. Straight men are confusing creatures of many contradictions and you will discover that it is so much less complex to just assume they're not interested. In wrestling, sports, play, everything is fair game to them until someone mentions the word "gay", or balls touch.

In these cases, your questionably flirtatious straight guy falls into two categories: the straight guy expressing natural homosexual desires and curiosity who leads you on but vehemently denies it; or the bisexual guy who is too ashamed/uncertain about his attraction to other men.

Put simply, you do not want to date either. Sure, you can be a good friend and offer support or a sympathetic ear. I mean coming out of the closet or coming to terms with what sexuality means is by no means an easy thing and you should definitely not abandon friends who need a little reassurance - maybe they don't even realise what they're doing. But trust me, boyfriends who are in denial are not fun and neither is being strung about by a straight guy (in an emotional sense I mean =P).

Find yourself someone who knows who they are, is comfortable with whoever that may be and who above all else doesn't deny how they feel about you. They don't have to wear a flashing label saying "I'm gay and this is my boyfriend" but at the end of the day it's a relationship, and life as a charade gets tiresome. If it turns out this furry friend of yours was interested in you, then it's his loss for not being more forthcoming

I'm sorry if my view on the matter seems a bit black-and-white or jaded, but you know what they say... once burned, twice shy

 

[Just_Believe18]

That's great! Things do work out in the end!

 

[slnattak]

I can relate to you.

I remember straight guys were always usually friendly and more playful with me. They put their arm around my shoulders and smiled at me affectionately. Gay guys were like 'eww stay away from me!' They FOUGHT me with constantly and were aggressive! It was the strangest thing. They also made fun of me RELENTLESSLY. That's right! Not straight guys, other gay guys. Gay guys were SO BRUTAL TO ME. And straight guys were as nice as golden retriever puppies. I remember the gay jocks (that's right, gay jocks) gave me such a fucking hard time just cause I wasn't good at sports, but straight guys were all "Aww that's okay." I'm serious!

It's the weirdest thing. Why does this happen fellas? Why do gay guys do this to ourselves! It's really not pretty *laughs*

But strangely enough, when it came down to it, there was this fire and passion and intensity from gay men that I loved - and this feeling of really being taken care of that no straight man ever gave me. You can only experience that if you come out. Sounds like you're just still being two kinda scaredy-cat boys that are confused and conflicted. And you smell like a virgin, somebody that didn't even actually have gay anal sex yet. He's not throwing his sexuality in your face, so you don't feel like he's the typical arrogant straight asshole- but then again, if you come out you think you have to hang around with a bunch of asexual gay guys that are a total turn off and all they do is talk about how to treat people decently instead of just turning them over and fucking them in the ass!

Believe me. WE GET IT. But coming out helps solve a lot of your problems and complexes.

And there's no excuses really, you will get discriminated and bad stuff to you will happen because of it, but it's better in the end.

I'm a gay guy that mains Meta Knight in super smash bros. I kick straight ass DAILY - and that should turn you on, not me being some nice little submissive golden retriever straight guy, damnit!

I love video games and being friendly/lovely too. But you have to understand, that other gay guys are going to be kind of uptight about it just like you are, because well I dunno. It's just seems to be that way. Insert long queer theorist rant here.

You might feel if you come out you'll lose some of your raw sexuality. But really guy, I just think you kinda need to grow up and get over the playful wrestling with straight guys and make love to a real gay man and deep down you know this and the guilt is eating you away. If you think a gay guy can't give you what you really want- then it says more about you, you don't think you can be a good lover yourself, you have to rely on other people's affections for you. That's why it's so easy to get the straight guy crush. They're the ones doing all the work while you get to be the 'passive straight female.' And um, honestly to open gay guys? That's a HUGE turn-off because we've been there ourselves and you are like such a lower spiritual level than us. I know a lot of people will sugar coat what you do but I don't. I don't know what to tell you... other than you have very typical self-loathing issues, and I hope you work through them. And now I can see why gay men bully gay men so much because I just want to shake you and say 'Have some balls dude!'

I was able to say I was gay in front of mean rowdy aggressive straight people and lived through it- because first off it wasn't just about me. Don't be a Coward. COME OUT. Ugh really. We need more people on our side for the final epic showdown! And I'm not kidding about that.

 

[terrorblade]

Well, from what I've heard this happens a lot. A friend told me about two good friends of hers, A. and B. let's say. A is almost openly gay, but you don't need a really good gaydar to figure that out. He likes B a lot, but B has been in denial for 5 years and people pretty much doubt he'll ever get over it. He still thinks A will get married and have kids some day.
So if people don't have the force of will to accept themselves, do you really want to be with someone like that? It might not hurt to try at first, but it gets really painful in the long run.

From another point of view, I had a friend in high school that was always very touchy-feely, with some people more than others. And guess what... I came out to him a few days ago and he's completely straight and secure about his sexuality. I know him well enough to know that he would've told me if he'd ever thought about bisexuality after I told him I was gay, but he didn't. Some people just know they are straight, have no problem with gay people and don't really care what they do in private. Yet they still hug, cuddle etc because for them it's harmless 'bonding', unlike some gay guys that would take it for a sign of something more. It's not, just some people enjoy closeness even when no sexual desires are involved.

 

[p700granat]

There are lots of threads recently about crushing on straight / most likely straight guys, so I thought a little update from me may be useful to people who are in similar situation.

For those who don't bother reading my previous posts, there's a friend of mine in college who had started to become very physical with me since about a year ago. He used to touch, poke, hug, wrestle, play footsie, etc with me literally whenever I'm within his arm's reach. Because of this I started to doubt his sexuality and since he's also a cute guy with a cheerful personality, I found myself more and more interested in him. Gradually this interest intensified to a crush, which is quite torturing for me because on the one hand I enjoy his physical attention but on the other hand I know there's very little chance that he's actually gay/bi. But about three weeks ago, I finally had a chance to have him say the words "I'm not, like, .... gay" without revealing my sexuality, and I gave up my last illusion.

Now the update. Nothing really changed much on the surface. We're still good friends, and he still does his feely touchy things very often when we hang out. It's not as often as before, but that has been the case since the week when I decided that avoiding him whenever possible is the best way to stop my crush. That week most likely made him think that I'm bothered by too much of his physical attention. But as I said, he still do that often enough: for example just after dinner last night he hugged me from behind and held me for quite a while, long enough to leave his body-scent on my T-shirt for a few hours.

What has changed is my state of mind. Now as I don't have any doubt on his sexuality or consider hinting anything beyond friendship, it's no longer torturing. I can simply enjoy the friendship, his company and his physical attention without thinking too much. Deep down in subconsciousness I still wanted more and I may still have doubts, which still comes to my mind once in a while - I can't deny that. But now such thoughts would go away easily, unlike before. We just had an election for a student organization in which he's running, and I didn't vote for him because I think other candidates are more qualified - that's not the kind of decision I can make a month ago. I know the "residue feelings" of a crush would probably never completely go away, but it's already too little to be harmful and will become less with time. Sometimes I still feel kind of guilty as I'm taking advantage of his touchiness by not telling him I'm gay, but I tell myself he's enjoying the touching as well and I'm not doing anything crazy.

So I'm pretty happy about this result. It seemed to work out as Chaz suggested. And if anyone having a similar problem is reading this, I recommend setting a hard criteria on determining whether your crush is gay/bi/curious or has any interest in you. For me this criteria is his own verbal admission or denial. If/after you determined he's not, make sure you internalize this understanding and remind yourself whenever you're thinking otherwise. For those cute guys who you don't even know (there're are a lot of those for me), get to know him if he's likely to become a friend, or just take steal a few stares when your path crosses, which is what I do. And for a crush who's already a friend of yours, avoiding him completely is probably not a good idea, likely to make you think about him even more, unless you already got over it internally. These are just my "preliminary findings" from this experience (I first typed "experiment" lol), and you should really consider comments from other more experienced JUB member (G-Lex, KaraBulut, AtomW7, Kyanimal, ...) who have been extremely helpful.

And an update about the gay friend who I met recently and came out to (the second person I came out to). We had dinner together twice, and we'll probably hang out this weekend. We had some pretty good conversations, and it's really nice to have someone to talk about things I can't tell other people. So far it seems we'll just be friends and nothing more, but that's still pretty nice.

 

[Lube]

Do you see the double standard here?

You're unwilling to come out to him, and yet you take at face value his protestations that he's not gay.

He could be like you at an earlier stage--before you've admitted to yourself your gay (or maybe you didn't have that stage).

It doesn't necessarily change the outcome. Someone in denial is just as much out of reach as someone who's straight.

But it's silly to think that what he says defines what he is. There are millions of guys in the closet. Just like yourself. Who refuse to come out.

And, well, no, you're not happy about the result. It's written all over your post. Maybe if you came out to him he'd have a fresh opportunity to re-examine his feelings; re-evaluate how he treated his earlier best friend; come to terms with himself. Or maybe he'll dump you, in which you'll know what a homophobic asshole he is.

But keeping things as they are is helping no one, frankly.

 

[FrankMillersTylerSophia]

Just from reading through this whole thread I feel like I now have a crush on The Fox, sounds fun and adorable!

I want to go out and find myself a little fur fan of my own to straight-cuddle-and-maybe-more-with.

Maybe you want one of us to try hitting on this guy or something? You know, just so you could hear all about his reaction, and maybe make some further decisions based on that? Because I would be totally available to hit on your furry, you know, FOR YOU. I am just saying.

 

[KaraBulut]

And an update about the gay friend who I met recently and came out to (the second person I came out to). We had dinner together twice, and we'll probably hang out this weekend. We had some pretty good conversations, and it's really nice to have someone to talk about things I can't tell other people. So far it seems we'll just be friends and nothing more, but that's still pretty nice.

Ah, progress. Congratulations.

 

[Kyanimal]

granat ...

It would seem that You are truly Learning from Your "Life's Experiences"! And, THAT is a "Good Thing"!! I am "Humbled" by the thought that I may have been of some assistance! THANK YOU! for Your acknowledgments!

It would seem that, through what You have been "discovering", You're proving the idea of "Hang Loose", and just be YOU! Enjoy Yourself! ... and those whom You are Lucky enough to get to know, and letting Them get to know the "real" You!

I do have a strong sense that YOU are going to be doing "O.K", my young friend!!

Of course, no matter what ... and I do mean this most Sincerely ...

Keep smilin'!!
Chaz ;-)

 

[p700granat]

Remember the other student I met recently? I said we were going to hang out this weekend. Well, I was on a bed last night, and I wasn't sleeping. Now I'm back in my room and need to get a few hours of sleep.

 

[Lube]

Remember the other student I met recently? I said we were going to hang out this weekend. Well, I was on a bed last night, and I wasn't sleeping. Now I'm back in my room and need to get a few hours of sleep.

Well there's a lesson for ya: you have a much greater probability of having sex with guys you come out to, than those you don't come out to.

 

[KaraBulut]

Remember the other student I met recently? I said we were going to hang out this weekend. Well, I was on a bed last night, and I wasn't sleeping. Now I'm back in my room and need to get a few hours of sleep.

Funny how these things work themselves out.

 

[EvilForce]

God this thread is like so many here at JUB. Painful. You so deep in the closet and then wonder why you haven't found a boyfriend in college. You set preconditions on what another person MUST do before you do __________.

I know 40 and 45 year old men that still say the same things as you have on this post, and have been for the 5 or 10 years I've known them. I'm sure they've been saying it their whole life.

I read this section of JUB, and literally 85% to 90% of the "problems" people have tied themselves into knots over would disappear if you just came out of the closet.

And there is no way in Hades that your furry friend is "straight". He's at a minimum bisexual. You've lamented here for weeks about him and his activities, perhaps he's been doing the same thing to his friends? You can't expect others to be mind readers. You've admitted you have been emotionally constipated towards him, so how is he supposed to read your body language?

I'm sorry but until you come out of the closet there simply is no way to understand that you can have male friends that you are in love with, love them as friends, or just social with. Intimacy with another man doesn't automatically mean he is boyfriend material. The sooner you realize humans are all a bunch of neurotic bundles of insecurity the better. When you can admit your own insecurities and oddities to others, is when you've opened the door to letting others see the true you. Putting on a fake shell day after day is emotionally crippling.

 

[Atomw7]

And there is no way in Hades that your furry friend is "straight". He's at a minimum bisexual.

I agree, no furries are straight. They may claim it, but...