Explosions, shootings reported in central Paris

[Harke the Boeotarch]

There may be yet hundreds of thousands of lives lost before the different sects of Islam reach that accommodation with each other and with the rest of the world as well.

That is the simple harsh reality.

Is it my jet lag, or are you actually saying here that Islam is mostly a hateful religion?

 

[SLOPPYSECONDS]

Consider what we've lost already in terms of civil liberties.

tey a funny words
is nots it play thang a group folkees playin snookar wit all thang?
_maybe a upgrade peasants world ova do wot it first time eva_
" or "
^ puppet shows ons ^
! ooooooh !

tinku

 

[rareboy]

I'm saying that all radical, fundamentalist and reactionary ideologies are hateful.

Because we no longer believe in the right of Kings, that ideology is dead. We no longer have Britain and France and Germany and Sweden and Denmark and Norway and Spain slaughtering one another in the name of the Holy Roman Empire.

Because the west ...or at least Eaurope and much of North America is pretty much post-christian...the fire behind it has almost died except for the hard line evangelicals.

Communism is pretty much dead as well.

And Fascism hasn't been popular for some time either as an idea of world order.

So yes, it is your jet lag.

What I am saying is that in the same way that relatively small groups of individuals and tribes have kept everyone butchering one another for the last 3500 year...it seems as though those radical islamists who believe they are doing the will of the same God as the Christians and Jews are apparently the news getters these days. And their acts are anathema.

But I also want to remind everyone here that this past week, three US Republican candidates attended and spoke at a 'Christian' values conference hosted by a man who advocates death for gays.

Sometimes there isn't really all that much that separates one old testament based ideology from another.

 

[SLOPPYSECONDS]

.

Sometimes there isn't really all that much that separates .

defo beteen a ear a male ans female human apees a 1st orda ans a 2nd ans a 3 ans 4 ans
_tap tap high kick ans fire_
ooh muscial war?
" yea tey update war ways cause audience wanna it "
ha

anyway

tinku

so wen a human race staart?
"yea wike millioon ears ans no sign yet"

ssssssssh"

ooh forgat

 

[Kahaih]

Alabama Gov. Robert Bentley announced on Sunday that he is refusing Syrian refugees relocating to the state

. . .
“After full consideration of this weekend’s attacks of terror on innocent citizens in Paris, I will oppose any attempt to relocate Syrian refugees to Alabama through the U.S. Refugee Admissions Program. As your Governor, I will not stand complicit to a policy that places the citizens of Alabama in harm’s way,” Governor Robert Bentley said.
. . .

This seems to be a government website:

http://governor.alabama.gov/newsroo...y-refuses-syrian-refugees-relocating-alabama/

 

[rareboy]

Because....alabama....

 

[zoltanspawn]

....alabama....

Arkansas, Michigan and Texas, too.

They should probably close their state borders.

 

[rareboy]

^ well on principle they should close their state borders.

The shame is, they still let people out.

 

[otters]

Alabama Gov. Robert Bentley announced on Sunday that he is refusing Syrian refugees relocating to the state
This seems to be a government website:
http://governor.alabama.gov/newsroo...y-refuses-syrian-refugees-relocating-alabama/

Because....alabama....

 

[xbuzzerx]

Sometimes there isn't really all that much that separates one old testament based ideology from another.

That's very much the thing with the "doctrine-based" argument that too often dives into "Christianity is good, Islam is bad." They're 66% the same friggin book. I would feel completely assured in saying a very comfortable majority of at least American Christians do not know this- from equal parts ignorance and willful ignorance.

 

[xbuzzerx]

incredible historical injustice..yeah sure. What era we live today?

We live in an era where most people with a brain are aware that the Japanese Internment was an atrocity carried out as a group punishment against a whole group of people on the basis of guilt by association (or guilt by birth/race) and was never found to have any justifiable cause whatsoever.

For anyone, including you, to quote a "solution" to radical extremism today by citing the internment as if it was a good idea, is a fantastic example of HOW LITTLE anyone has "learned from the past."

 

[Harke the Boeotarch]

We live in an era where most people with a brain are aware that the Japanese Internment was an atrocity carried out as a group punishment against a whole group of people on the basis of guilt by association (or guilt by birth/race) and was never found to have any justifiable cause whatsoever.

For anyone, including you, to quote a "solution" to radical extremism today by citing the internment as if it was a good idea, is a fantastic example of HOW LITTLE anyone has "learned from the past."

Always easy to judge from hindsight.

Winning wars that safeguard the future of your people, that's a bit more challenging.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Always easy to judge from hindsight.

Winning wars that safeguard the future of your people, that's a bit more challenging.

You don't need hindsight or the ability to see the future to safely assume that exactly following the procedures of an incredibly unjust policy is going to result in an incredibly unjust policy.

 

[Latimer]

FLUCTUAT NEC MERGITUR

Il est battu par les flots, mais ne sombre pas.

Tossed by the waves, but it doesn't sink.

Motto of the city of Paris, inscribed on a shield showing a boat afloat the waves

 

[loaded]

In response to the second question, I'd suggest that Western countries stop trying to create puppet regimes in the Middle East, stop arming the ally-of-the-moment (because they turn into tomorrow's enemies), and stop sending drones into the Middle East to kill civilians.

Are you suggesting that the US should stop supplying weapons and funds to Israel?

I agree strongly that Western military should take great care to avoid killing innocent civilians but where a target needs to be destroyed, drones are preferable to bomber aircraft or even cruise missiles because drones can get closer and deploy a smaller weapon which helps minimize collateral damage.

Unfortunately, US 'intelligence' has not been particularly good at determining with a high degree of certainty whether the target poses a real threat. When Western governments don't care about civilian casualties, then they are no better than the terrorists.

 

[rareboy]

^ Lilbit nailed it.

We are reaping the rewards of decades of thinking that you can keeping bombing and killing families as 'collateral damage' and of destroying the infrastructure of countries without consequences.

Does anyone even care that in Iraq, as many as 60,000 innocent civilians were likely killed in order to prove that Sadam had no weapons of mass destruction?

Does anyone really care about the thousands and thousands of civilians that have been killed as the US and other western 'partners' bomb the same people that they trained and armed as Mujahadeen in their fight with the USSR?

This is why I and a lot of other Canadians are glad that our Prime Minister has said 'enough' and is trying to get Canada back to a place where our contribution in conflict is to try to hold the peace and to help mop up the damage so that we don't create thousands more angry and embittered victims of superpower proxy wars who will turn to terrorism to get us out of their homelands.

The US and the west provide so much military aid and support to Israel that it allows the country to flout international law and convention without almost any fear of consequence as it grinds the Palestinian people into the dirt and seize more and more territory in order to play into the Evangelical fantasy of the end times. It is time that Israel is also forced to give up aggression as well.

 

[Benvolio]

Ooo

We live in an era where most people with a brain are aware that the Japanese Internment was an atrocity carried out as a group punishment against a whole group of people on the basis of guilt by association (or guilt by birth/race) and was never found to have any justifiable cause whatsoever.

For anyone, including you, to quote a "solution" to radical extremism today by citing the internment as if it was a good idea, is a fantastic example of HOW LITTLE anyone has "learned from the past."

It was wrong and illegal for the democrats to intern US citizens of Japanese ancestry. It was legal and cusomary to intern or expell nationals of countries with which you are at war. That distinction should have been made.Whether OR NOT the internment prevented subversion and sabotage is impossible to say.

 

[rareboy]

It wasn't only the Democrats.

Japanese Canadian Internment refers to the detainment of Japanese Canadians following the Japanese invasion of Hong Kong and Malaya and attack on Pearl Harbor, and the subsequent Canadian declaration of war on Japan during World War II. This forced relocation subjected Japanese Canadians to government-enforced curfews and interrogations, in addition to job and property losses.[1] The internment of Japanese Canadians was deemed necessary by the federal Cabinet headed by Prime Minister William Lyon Mackenzie King, largely due to existing racism. This was done so, despite evidence supplied by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and the Department of National Defence that this decision was unwarranted.[2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_Canadian_internment

The practise had started in the commonwealth in the first world war......

Within one week of the declaration of war, all German subjects in Australia were declared ‘enemy aliens’ and were required to report to the Government and notify their address. In February 1915 the meaning of ‘enemy aliens’ changed. It came to include naturalised migrants as well as Australian born persons whose fathers or grandfathers had been born in Germany or Austria. Since it was impossible to intern all enemy aliens resident in Australia, the Government pursued a policy of selective internment. They targeted the leaders of the German Australian community — including honorary consuls and pastors of the Lutheran Church, businessmen and the destitute. Some internees had been accused of being disloyal by neighbours or had come to the attention of the police by accident. Internment in Australia was regulated by the War Precautions Act 1914 and internees could be held without trial.

Internment Camps were established at Rottnest Island in Western Australia, Torrens Island in South Australia, Enoggera in Queensland, Langwarrin in Victoria and Bruny Island in Tasmania.

http://www.migrationheritage.nsw.go...thome/the-camps-and-the-system-of-internment/

It is one of the reasons why internment camps at the beginning of the Second World War didn't attract much attention.....but after the Nazi death camps and other genocidal mass incarcerations since, this entirely repugnant approach gets far more scrutiny.

 

[xbuzzerx]

It wasn't only the Democrats.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_Canadian_internment

The practise had started in the commonwealth in the first world war......



http://www.migrationheritage.nsw.go...thome/the-camps-and-the-system-of-internment/

It is one of the reasons why internment camps at the beginning of the Second World War didn't attract much attention.....but after the Nazi death camps and other genocidal mass incarcerations since, this entirely repugnant approach gets far more scrutiny.

While we're visiting the subject, there had also been attempts to remove or heavily curtail Japanese Americans long before WWII for financial reasons. They were fantastically successful as small (usually family-based) farming industries, and attempts both to block them from land ownership and even to get the Chinese Exclusion Act amended to include them all had very heavy agribusiness and other economic motivations beyond the racial and cultural. The war from an economic perspective for many local business interests was a very convenient pretext for booting a group of people who were widely resented for their industriousness and success-- and the resulting windfall of marauding all their property at slashed prices was just a fringe benefit of their overzealous patriotism, of course.

 

[justaguy]

We are reaping the rewards of decades of thinking that you can keeping bombing and killing families as 'collateral damage' and of destroying the infrastructure of countries without consequences.

I think this has some truth. At the same time though, if the west had done nothing, the training camps etc would just be in Afghanistan. And if not Afghanistan, then somewhere else. The fact is, there is a hardline faction of the Islam religion who sees anyone that isn't Muslim as infidels who deserve to die if they don't convert. And their aim is to have a Muslim world where Sharia Law is adhered to. Those hardline factions have always been there, and I believe 9/11 would have occured regardless of what America or anyone else did. The internet and technology has made recruitment easier. It's a damned if you do and damned if you don't scenario.

It pisses me off when people excuse these barbaric acts as the Wests fault. On top of that, the deaths in Iraq etc weren't, in the main, carried out by the west, but at the hands of Muslims themselves.

Ok, let's try and negotiate. Well, it's pretty obvious there is no negotiating with these people. Their bottom line is that everyone has to convert. Nothing less is acceptable.