Extreme right wing populism is rising in Europe... What can we do to stop it?

[pat grimshaw]

If it was paramount to keep illiterate gay-haters out of Australia they could have started with the felons they offloaded there.

What year was that?

 

[Harke the Boeotarch]

Yeah, and why would Canada be 20 years ahead of the US on these issues? The kinds of decisions going on today in the states date back to 1994 to 2004 in Canada and we have first-past-the-post as well.

I don't know about the Canadian political system at all, but my gay relative there has an equally gay girlfriend who said she actually prefers the non-first-past-the-post system we have. Many of the smaller parties in several European countries have contributed to a more earnest form of political representation. I think UK used FPTP and it also seems to have resulted in its detrimental two party system.

Proposition: the less political parties you have, the more disengenuous the relationship between the parties and the actual electorate.

 

[SLOPPYSECONDS]

amazin
_pizza or icebucket?_
amazin
_betta no a read_
gurd idea

thankyou

 

[evanrick]

the extreme right wing populism is a effect of nationalism and is used by the establishment to take away the rights of the countries citizens and push radical corporate agendas.

 

[bankside]

I don't know about the Canadian political system at all, but my gay relative there has an equally gay girlfriend who said she actually prefers the non-first-past-the-post system we have. Many of the smaller parties in several European countries have contributed to a more earnest form of political representation. I think UK used FPTP and it also seems to have resulted in its detrimental two party system.

Proposition: the less political parties you have, the more disengenuous the relationship between the parties and the actual electorate.

If you know even a few vague things about the British system, then you know the Canadian system as well. The funny thing is, FPTP has given Canada minority governments in most of the last 10 years where the government could fall on any vote if it does not take into account the wishes of the smaller parties, and Canada has had up to 5 major competitive (seat-holding) political parties over the last 20 years. Also, the UK has a minority government as well.

My criticism of proportional systems is that it tends to make a bunch of fragmented smaller parties that are self-congratulatory in tone and isolationist congregations of like-minded group thinkers, who see no real reason to come to serious compromise with the views of other parliamentarians. But to each his own.

 

[SLOPPYSECONDS]

wot aboot extreme dead public citazan volonteer jelly fish or sumthang wot sell fa apes tinkin tey got yougurt in head?
SSSSSSH"
ooh

has fun

thankyou

happy porn day

 

[belamyi]

Yeah, and why would Canada be 20 years ahead of the US on these issues? The kinds of decisions going on today in the states date back to 1994 to 2004 in Canada and we have first-past-the-post as well.

Canada has like one-tenth of America's population, and the part of that total that in Canada is of foreign origin and are willing to cooperate in change for a fairer society for everybody, in the USA has the equivalent of those who the sort of suprematists whose families have been there for generations and believe that their own private fancies about politics and America are what America is really about.

 

[JPGhost]

This is such a nice thread, very informative. I thought Andrusek is a bit paranoid but once I skim this thread, I got what he worry about.
I can't say much since Im not living in Europe but ...sometimes when pests already out of control- farmer could release their natural predators to control. However, keep on eye with the counter predator- number since they're could be the one being invasive.

So I approved ^^

 

[belamyi]

Canada has like one-tenth of America's population, and the part of that total that in Canada is of foreign origin and are willing to cooperate in change for a fairer society for everybody, in the USA has the equivalent of those who the sort of suprematists whose families have been there for generations and believe that their own private fancies about politics and America are what America is really about.

damn that was broken English if I ever I wrote..!

 

[bankside]

damn that was broken English if I ever I wrote..!

We'll you would still be welcomed here as a resident. Which is to say you're right about Canada's size and demography, but that only shows that the electoral system is not the main factor at play.

 

[JohnnyAnger]

If you know even a few vague things about the British system, then you know the Canadian system as well. The funny thing is, FPTP has given Canada minority governments in most of the last 10 years where the government could fall on any vote if it does not take into account the wishes of the smaller parties, and Canada has had up to 5 major competitive (seat-holding) political parties over the last 20 years. Also, the UK has a minority government as well.

My criticism of proportional systems is that it tends to make a bunch of fragmented smaller parties that are self-congratulatory in tone and isolationist congregations of like-minded group thinkers, who see no real reason to come to serious compromise with the views of other parliamentarians. But to each his own.

Don't you think the coalition government in Canada is something to do more with the absolute collapse in the Conservative party in 1993 along with Bloc Quebecois coming along? I mean I don't know too much about the situation but the minority government seems more like a vacuum of power than a move towards a multi party system. It's kind of the same in the UK were the Labour party were never going to win the last election and it split the votes causing our first coalition in years. Still FPTP is not good for democracy at all in my eyes, we can complain that it requires parties to work together, but if that is what it takes for my vote to actually matter so be it! Where I live there is no hope in hell that any party I support could ever get a seat in parliament and its a wasted vote around here, if we had PR that might actual change and go some way to battle voter apathy.

For me we should not battle the far right with unfair electoral systems that are stacked in favour of a few parties. If we want to fight the far right we have to challenge them and their views at all times, take a general no-platform stand to them, and educate everyone against them. When they march, counter march. When they stand for election, campaign against them. It might not always feel the most effective, but its the best we can do.

 

[belamyi]

If they are feared, they are being taken seriously, and if they are taken seriously, they have a place in people's minds, and that means they will ultimately bring at least some part of their fancies into reality.

 

[belamyi]

Now, if someone would say "why, of course we take them seriously, stupid, it is of capital importance!"... I would then respond that so is the naive ignorant ideas "normal" people commonly posess about science and democracy, even when there are no extremists around.

My point with this and my previous post is that it is not so much a danger coming from the outside as the incapability and the debility to oppose them with a well-constructed social system and, most important, the AWARENESS of what that system is and how it works (not your feelings about how you think or perceive it to work) what is the real threat that will destroy democracies... in America it will have other names and costumes, since for starters there never was any problem with being very Nazi (even before there were nazies officially), very Christian and very American at the same time, but the problem is exactly the same, since it is about the failure of the whole Western system.

 

[xbuzzerx]

For me we should not battle the far right with unfair electoral systems that are stacked in favour of a few parties. If we want to fight the far right we have to challenge them and their views at all times, take a general no-platform stand to them, and educate everyone against them. When they march, counter march. When they stand for election, campaign against them. It might not always feel the most effective, but its the best we can do.

I agree with you. I think the real problem is that there are people who unthink in a certain way and would support far-right candidates. The real problem isn't that the electoral system (whatever it may be) allows parties that gain large voting bases to secure elections. Dividing up the number of ways that votes get split doesn't necessarily just lessen the impact of counterprogress electorates, either.

 

[belamyi]

I agree with you. I think the real problem is that there are people who unthink in a certain way and would support far-right candidates. The real problem isn't that the electoral system (whatever it may be) allows parties that gain large voting bases to secure elections. Dividing up the number of ways that votes get split doesn't necessarily just lessen the impact of counterprogress electorates, either.

Elections are about gut spasms, not about thoughts or "unthoughts".

Again, the problem is not about the fancy statistical system that can be devised to legitimize best a government, but about the whimsical behaviour or people, with or with-out an electoral system, and their permeability to whatever pleases their feelings, like children, without caring what there is behind and what it actually means, not to, but for them.

 

[oakpope]

UKIP are right about the EU being an anti-democratic shambles

Humm.. No.

Council of Europe : formed from the governments of EU countries, all of them democratically elected.
Parliament : democratically elected.
European commission : chosen by the council of Europe and approved by the Parliament, both democratically elected.

EU is democratic and the EU constitution has been approved whether directly by referendum or by countries' parliament.

It's a little too easy to say something is anti democratic when it just is something you disagree with.

PS : as for the raise of right wingers, it's no surprise when governments everywhere blame Bruxelles when something isn't right, instead of blaming their constant lack of courage. The thing is, Bruxelles can't answer to defend itself in national medias. EU is the perfect scapegoat who can't defend itself. So convenient... And they act surprised when people start to be suspicious of EU...

 

[SLOPPYSECONDS]

democratic snake oil

* words aye *
aint tey

thankyou

 

[Kulindahr]

One of the consequences of military adventurism is that a country may not be happy with the terms imposed on it as a consequence of its folly. Generally, a country is not entitled to feel content with those terms. And repeating or magnifying the folly is no strategy to renegotiate either.

How was "military adventurism" involved in World War I?

 

[Kulindahr]

The right wing trend is due to the bending over backwards.

Europe's governments need to become ruthless in the defense of liberty. That means that immigrants taking over neighborhoods and schools to impose their own agendas must be sent to prison with the maximum penalties.