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"Father builds 'child molester' sign to defend daughter"

16 and 22 is a tremendous age gap when talking about basic knowledge and maturity levels, that's like saying there's not much difference between ages 4-10; have you not regularly talked to either group when you weren't in the same category age-wise? Their goals are different and their conception of the world generally isn't even remotely similar.

To say that 16 and 22 are as different as 4 and 10 is ridiculous.

To begin with, he's 21 not 22. And if he were a 21-year-old in college, his experience of the world would be more akin to that of a 15-year-old in school than that of a 27-year-old who's been, say, working in a law firm or a hospital for five years.

This was not necessarily a case of a mature man taking advantage of a naive teenager. It may well have been two naive people doing something stupid, with psycho dad thrown in for good measure.

http://ktla.com/2017/04/28/arkansas...gn-over-daughters-relationship-with-neighbor/
 
Correction: he fell in love when he was fifteen, she didn't give in to him until he was no longer her pupil. They only moved in together when he was an adult, and they got married only ten years ago.


That's not really a 'correction' as you didn't provide anything different from the post you quoted.

However one-sided the relationship was and for how long it remained one-sided doesn’t change the fact/information that he started with it when he was 15. And both accounts end with them married.

Where does your 'timeline' come from?
 
That's not really a 'correction' as you didn't provide anything different from the post you quoted.

However one-sided the relationship was and for how long it remained one-sided doesn’t change the fact/information that he started with it when he was 15. And both accounts end with them married.

Where does your 'timeline' come from?

From their respective families, who were interviewed about this before. But could we stop discussing the French and go back to this cray family in Arkansas?
 
I am not in the middle at all. I can understand a man is upset when he suddenly realises his little baby girl has become a young woman who falls in love and wants to have sex. What I cannot understand is that he thinks he can keep her from growing up. And when he puts up a sign for all to see NAMING his daughter's 21-year-old partner (because other news outlets have corrected the age as 21) then he really loses any sympathy I may have felt.

Sixteen-year-olds are not children. When I was fifteen I had a 25-year-old sports teacher (straight as an arrow) that I would have fucked in the showers at the slightest suggestion.

No, they're not children. But they're usually not adults either, horniness notwithstanding; if they were adults with similar reasoning capabilities then they'd be making adult decisions. I'd like to think adults have a concept of why it's a generally bad idea to go about fucking people who're in charge of you at the very least.

Though at this point might as well wait a few weeks, the info about the articles seems all fucked up if they can't even get the ages to sign location right on the first go-round.
 
I am not in the middle at all. I can understand a man is upset when he suddenly realises his little baby girl has become a young woman who falls in love and wants to have sex. What I cannot understand is that he thinks he can keep her from growing up. And when he puts up a sign for all to see NAMING his daughter's 21-year-old partner (because other news outlets have corrected the age as 21) then he really loses any sympathy I may have felt.


Don't get me wrong, I feel the father went overboard.
 
....I wouldn't be so quick to label horniness only within the realm of an adult's experience if I were any of you. You're going to be sorely disturbed in life if you're at all familiar with experiences outside that particular 'children are never sexual' comfort zone.
 
To say that 16 and 22 are as different as 4 and 10 is ridiculous.

To begin with, he's 21 not 22. And if he were a 21-year-old in college, his experience of the world would be more akin to that of a 15-year-old in school than that of a 27-year-old who's been, say, working in a law firm or a hospital for five years.

This was not necessarily a case of a mature man taking advantage of a naive teenager. It may well have been two naive people doing something stupid, with psycho dad thrown in for good measure.

http://ktla.com/2017/04/28/arkansas...gn-over-daughters-relationship-with-neighbor/

The difference in both expectation and reasoning is radically different between 16-22, or 16 and 21 for that matter. So are the repercussions of how sexual activity shapes the self; the same experience at sixteen tends to have a different emotional and formative impact at 21.

That they might both be dim motherfuckers doesn't mean they started anywhere near equal footing, emotionally or intellectually. Again, a 21yr old may be as stupid and inconsiderate as the average 16 year old but the breadth of information that was acquired from general life experience is considerably greater, as are the expectations and responsibilities involved for becoming a responsible adult - particularly in this day and age. It's one reason you have mostly men going "What's the problem" while trying to convince people that the dim and naive are fine to have sex together because.....apparently they're both stupid enough to not know what they're doing.

'They're both kinda naive' is not the basis for recognizing consent can be given.

Well, except for the lovely general trend of double standards insisting someone with a quarter more life experience is surely on the same level as someone whose brain is 5 years behind in rapid development. And yet I notice the usually much younger 'other woman' is still blamed for Mr Adult's own actions. Still not seeing that competence men keep claiming.
 
Two or more people need to be at least on the same page in having an idea of a situation and what it might entail, otherwise they didn't consent to much of anything because you need knowledge for a yes. That includes emotional knowledge, something I'm half tempted to post links for remedial papers in here cuz apparently ya'll need Jesus. Considering I'm a cross between atheist and agnostic, that's saying something.

Makes me wonder what people consider consent to actually be. Much like DeNile, it isn't just one of those tricksy concepts where a yes means you're free n'clear.
 
Somebody needs to explain why in so many states a sixteen-year-old is a child when she has sex but an adult when she commits murder.
 
Just because something is legal doesn't make it right.

Most adults know that. But it's often the first and last bastion of the self-absorbed "But I wanna!" Or, y'know, contrary-wise so people don't have to look too closely at their own formative experiences. People hate finding out they might've had less understanding or control than they thought they did.
 
Somebody needs to explain why in so many states a sixteen-year-old is a child when she has sex but an adult when she commits murder.

Haven't you heard it's always the woman's fault? You're claiming she's woman enough to fuck whomever, seems to line up with charging as an adult right there.
 
Just because something is legal doesn't make it right. She might be 16 but she is her father's baby. He's protective and wants the best for him. A 22 year old married man is not the best for her. I wonder how many other teenagers he has seduced. His wife is probably 14.

That's all fine and well but that doesn't make his actions right. The guy isn't a child molestor and putting it down as that can ruin someone's life, when in reality he didn't anything THAT wrong, depending on your moral compass. Maybe neither of them are mature enough between their age gap to have a relationship and people might not agree with it, but at the end of the day she is not a child, she's a young adult or teenager.

When I think of a child molestor I think of adult messing around with someone 13 and younger. Not a relationship 5 year difference where one of them is only 2 years from being what is considered an adult age.
 
^^^ broaden your horizons and check out the excuses behind ephebophelia as a word-change distinction from pedophelia - and how the predatory behavior and fetishization itself fails to move one iota. Except the definition is a mite off, it's used to refer to 14 to 16yrs or so. Sometimes 12 and 13, they ain't real picky. 17 is apparently not interesting unless they look or act a hell of a lot younger.

I had the unfortunate experience of sharing a house with one of those creepy abusive fuckers. The behavior is usually a far cry from most twenty+ year olds being 'naive'.
 
Of course behavior and whether the girl was coerced, emotionally or physically abused is a factor in what one could define what was going on here.

I just disagree with labeling someone as a child molestor because of the fathers dissaproval of the relationship. Which is all we know of this relationship. Not saying the girl was mature enough to be with him or even the 22 year old was being mature, they could have very well liked each other or it could have been somthing more nefarious with the older party. If it was the latter then the father should have gone to the authorities about that.

The Father is technically incorrect and all he is doing is putting this guy in danger, considering his name and where he lives is on the sign. Father is of course right to have his feelings, I just think he went too far where he can get himself in legal trouble as well as putting someone in danger over something that he simply disapproves of and could have been nothing but a 22 and 16 year old liking each other.
 
There is a reason why there used to be chastity belts, and it wasn't to protect against rape. In all likelihood, the 16 year old was looking and found. That said, there seems to be nothing here to tell the actual character of the 22 year old or the 16 year old. I lived in the Mid-South. The father's actions could get him sued successfully, but worse, it could get the young man attacked or injured or killed if some Yahoo takes it upon himself to "protect children."

Take a long, hard look at the scenario in law. A high school senior at 16 or 17 chooses to sleep with his college age boyfriend, a hugely common scenario. His irate father could do the same sign and ad "Gay man molested my child" to the sign, and I guarantee you the man would be attacked and run out of town or killed. Encouraging the libel is encouraging a morality that is subjective, not legal, and more importantly, a wrong definition of child molestation, which damages the term when it actually does apply. Statutory rape and child molestation should be different categories as they involve hugely different psychological and legal matters.

I taught high school sophomores for five years, so I've worked directly as an adult with thousands of them. A lot needs to be included here instead of the broad brushes.

The state acknowledges the age of consent as 16, not adulthood. Those are not equal. She is a minor, but not merely a child. The state has good reason to make such a distinction, as the free agency of 16-year-olds is not merely some relic of a rural past, but of a mixed status that also exists in other key areas of status. Drivers licenses and alcohol and military enrollment have all been set at less than 21 in many areas of the country, only becoming more uniform once the insurance companies pushed.

Just because something is legal doesn't make it right. She might be 16 but she is her father's baby. He's protective and wants the best for him. A 22 year old married man is not the best for her. I wonder how many other teenagers he has seduced. His wife is probably 14.

What if the 22 year old was forced into a teen pregnancy marriage? He could have been married four years or more already to some gal he had nothing more in common with than both of their teenage hormones. That he might be seeking a partner still is possible. Or, he could merely be a scumbag.

The frequent interplay of young legal adults and teenage minors is not rare, not unusual, and not unnatural. It is perfectly normal for a 22 year old and a 16 year old, if both are sexually active and looking, to find one another. The suggestion that age 21 is some magical barrier is hugely injected into biology AND society.

As for the father, it is too hard without being personally acquainted to determine if this is some misguided attempt at "protecting" his promiscuous teen, or at spiting her now because he hasn't been able to punish her boyfriend or control her.

It also remains to be shown how far apart the mental ages of these two lovers were. Generalizations about 16 and 21 are just that. Individuals vary, and he might be very close to her age mentally or vice versa.

I'd rather save my outrage for actual crime and cases where the victim wasn't sneaking out to have a rendezvous, and possibly already long past virtue when she met him. Again, we don't know. It could be just as manipulative from the 22 year old as some allege, or not. In order to cast the man in the role of predator, the behavior needs to be proven, not assumed. Many 16 year olds actively seek young 20's both online and in person, so it by no means requires some anonymous predator trawling the web to find a naive waif nearby.

I suggest not trying to stir the pot on this one. I also can't answer you in a manner you would understand because I suspect you know jack shit about how laws are created or modified in the USA, let alone state vs federal regulations.

I'd argue with you. He doesn't know Jack. He does know shit. Read his on-topic threads on both subjects.
 
I'd argue with you. He doesn't know Jack. He does know shit. Read his on-topic threads on both subjects.

Telly's fetishes tend to make me faint of heart; I'll pass, thanks.

Behavior not being rare, unusual or unnatural is no advocation of continuation o'behavior on its lonesome. Unless you wanna see horny 13yr year olds married with kids, because it's been that way for quite some time in history. And the magical age of twenty one is more like 25 or thereabouts for mostly settled development via brain scan, provided I'm remembering that correctly - and no, I'm not using that as a phrase substitution for actual experience but more the amount of information available at the fingertips for a much longer period of time, hopefully nicely settled in a "if I do x with y, w is a consequence that has a good chance of occurring".

If the issue is consent for an action (part and parcel of which understanding, - really- understanding that actions involve consequences, physical and emotional) then having only half the party be the one with simple information retrieval at the forefront is pretty damning. There's responsibilities inherent that people seem much to keen on shrugging off. And this is probably a new concept for a lot of people but emotional experience matters more than hormone elevation at puberty when discussing forming consent. That's why adult trans people don't tend to go around making excuses for burgeoning hormones making 'me loopy at the expense of other's not-so-lived-yet experiences. Only specific people are allowed to use the hormonal affects of puberty to their advantage and last I checked, I wasn't on the list. Neither are women generally allowed by men, if anyone's been paying general attention to the blatant misogyny and who blames for who straying. I did type that contained and controlled and the constant proving are expected. And I meant it most sincerely when I said it's far beyond what most people on this board were taught to prove of themselves.

I'd be willing to discuss intricacies because there are individuals underage that can and have taken emotional and common-sense responsibility for themselves; but those same individuals don't claim to be snowflakes or point to hormones as an excuse, nor do they tend to go "they're legal, I'm allowed!" They have discussions about emotional competence and physical readiness in new-for-them situations, something I note that not too many people are fond of, particularly when they're mid twenties and below. Most of them can't use their words for shit, and it tends to get worse the younger you go; and it changes by gender and experience as well, as only half the population is expected to be able to keep the dick in the pants, and unfortunately it isn't the owners of said penis who are expected to do the job.

Took me years to find/run-into a married couple that didn't have Ego tattoo'd on their brain. But I doubt I'd be discussing intricacies here, whether through my own experiences or another's. I don't trust the rampant misogyny, the 'self'-justification that contains not much actual stated thought, and certainly not the deliberate ignoring of what constitutes consent when factors besides "I wanna screw" are brought up.

Of course, repercussions matter there too; there's much less emotional investment when you're not the one who can get pregnant. Teen pregnancy was mentioned, it's a good enough example. The thread's been 21 because that's how old the guy was. There's several reasons I described consent in relation to similar competence and levels of understanding and emotional development. One of the reasons is because the law isn't written with exceptions in mind; you don't need to be an adult to have an adults understanding, as much as I wish the opposite were true. You don't need to be an adult to have what should be an adult's emotional competency with regards to knowing what you are (and are not) ready for, either. But by the same token people who both acknowledge and understand circumstances that are presented don't tend to put themselves into bloody asinine situations, like your married teen pregnancy example.
 
Re: "Father builds 'child molester' sign to defend daughter"

Well, the married teen pregnancy example. To be fair I tried to go into nuances earlier, of which there's much more than has been hypothesized here as to reasonings around "...but when is it okay...", but my damn internet connection keeps cutting out and I lost some rather important bits that my headache insists I'm not recreating. Part of knowing what you, yourself can and cannot consent to sexually involves having the ability to recognize that, in a particular place and time, you might not be ready (or want) something and having the ability to communicate such. Consent in sex isn't an across-the-board thing, something everybody should learn much, much sooner than they seem to. Sex Ed is a large part of it, but only a part of it for all that. I mean comprehensive sex Ed, not just the list of diseases and the 37% of people's preejaculate having an 'adequate motility in leftover sperm from a previous ejaculation to get ya pregnant if you use the pullout method' factor. They're big on using life as a scare tactic because they haven't much time, but don't seem to be too big on teaching what consent entails and how to recognize it in yourself and others. Considering the importance of consent, I'd think it should be at least as important as informing the public there's an astronomical chance they already have herpes so at least use a damn barrier for oral sex, but then they also largely seem adverse to teaching actual risk assessment and precaution beyond the little that's currently done.

I suppose if people want nuances to what they think they know then they should start at the basics.

One of these days imma write a thank-you letter to dear 'ole Stephen King; rarely has anyone written such a broad volume of work that showcased such issues in various simple manners, let alone while detailing a goodly chunk of my common 'life experiences' not found in "Our Bodies, Our Selves". Clarity through reflection does wonders, Judy Blume style rather fails a lot of 7 yr olds.
 
I never said the father was right in what he did. In fact, he handled it in a very badly and could easily find himself in trouble with the law. It should like he handled it emotionally. I was just offering it from how a father might feel. We all know 16 year olds are capable of being the aggressor in relationships. The 22 year old married man should hopefully have more maturity than to take the bait. I know that is expecting too much from some people, however. Chances are good, all three are guilty.
 
But, truth is, the understanding of consequences being the prerequisite to agency is a bit much. Nigh half the country doesn't well understand the consequences of actions, regardless of age.
 
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