Fed up with the 'you must have children' propaganda

[Willie Boy]

Well to be honest I wish I was not in this world, so I can only wish my mother would have been busy with something different that night.

Making children is more selfish than anything else because you're bringing a new person into the game, that is the game of suffering. IMO

Having sex is selfish. Having a child is a gift.

Now, about your depression...... Go see a therapist.

 

[Nishin]

Don't be simple.
The biological imperative of every life form on the planet is to reproduce.
It is only a learned behavior to NOT reproduce.
Hormones drive behavior. A sexually mature creature attempts to reproduce.
It's not political, egotistical, or psychological. It's pure biology.
What we do with it as thinking humans is on another level, but the drive itself in in our genes.

But that was precisely my point... we know animals don't "think" the way we do with our sense of globality, time/future, ability for complex abstract ideas... We know about contraception...

Yes it is a learned behaviour NOT to reproduce because we are not simple animals driven by their hormones. In other words human reproduction IS (mostly/usually) an assumed choice rather than an impulse. And because it is a choice, it IS egotistical, psychological and NOT just pure biology.

As said above, the drive is rather to have sex, not especially reproduce, otherwise we wouldn't be attracted to men when we know there is no chance for 2 men to reproduce, or straight men wouldn't be attracted to female if they know they are infertile...

 

[rareboy]

Thanks for your replies.



...snip....


Thanks... I am depressed and I started thinking that only a fool could find joy in such an unjust, sadistic game that is life.

I have learned that it is possible to still find great joy in the unjust, sadistic game that is life. I think you can too.

Best wishes in the process.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

After exponential population growth like humans are experiencing, population biologists have demonstrated that some populations go extinct, and some populations stabilize on a sickening bouncy curve in which numbers exceed the carrying capacity of the environment and then die off...regrow...exceed...die off...regrow...

Our exploitation of environmental limits has been so extreme I agree with you. There will likely be a massive collapse due to disease, shortage of nutrients, elimination of sustaining ecosystems, etc. There's lots of practical observations to be made that predict this model. Some people like to consider this from a "cosmic" perspective, and that is comforting, because the human reality of such a collapse will be incomprehensible.

However, there's no reason not to give real weight to the incomprehensibility of that sickening bouncy curve, too, should we end up there. There's nothing good about its famines, its desperations, its sufferings. Repetitive population crashes aren't a happy alternative.

The sad thing is, we are gifted with the intelligence to make decisions about our population growth, our effect on the future of other species, and our ability to live richly beneath the environmental limits of the Earth. But we choose to multiply instead for our own short-sighted, selfish purposes.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Every other species reaches equilibrium.

It's more than presumptuous to posit that humans will not do the same.

A die-off that adjusts and an extinguishing are wholly different.

That there is no historical precedence is obvious. Anything about the demise of mankind is pure speculation, not science.

We certainly have no precedent of humanity or a technological species wiping itself out through reckless expansion or exploitation, sure.

But we have plenty of evidence that much more carefully growing, slow reproducing, less consuming populations of now extinct species overextended, wiped themselves out or could not cope with the collapse or exhaustion of things in the ecosystem upon which they depended.

The idea that we cannot overextend and cannot overconsume is disturbingly naive. What will happens to "well if something gets short, we just pipe it in from somewhere else" when half the planet is saying that about a certain resource? We are already having these discussions about fossil fuels and fresh water and anticipation of those shortages in the not at all distant future.

 

[Nishin]

It is my personal opinion that the poor are poor because the rich want to keep being rich and have slaves. That makes me sad because it's just a matter of stupid luck if I wasn't born in Africa, you know? Life is so unfair.

I never understand how people conveniently forget about that factual truth... either that or they believe themselves to be some sort of chosen people (based on what??) who are granted rights other people are denied for whatever reason??

But you know, that's part of the reason why especially straight people in their late-20s feel pressured to find a spouse and have children. Talk to any woman that age, they must have least have a couple friends feeling that pressure.

I was trying to find a poll asking whether people would vote a celibate candidate in presidency... haven't found one... but I get the idea that it would not be the social representative people would want when I read such comments as :

"I doubt it. To be President you need to be reasonably tall, married, and pretend to be a Christian of some kind. Voters are looking for a traditional family in the White House."

"Yes. But the general consensus is that a family man is a more stable and well balanced individual.

"One reason why married presidents are so common is because it gives off a good vibe to the public. It makes it seem like the guy's a family man, and those kind of values are important to a lot of Americans."

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20060917133636AA5xLEU

"Just as unmarried members of the Clergy are not qualified to comment on married life and marriage,Unmarried Presidents would not be qualified to comment or act on anything that involved married people.If you haven't walked a mile in someone else's shoes,how can you understand how they live.

"no its nice to have married president because they are model in our nation"

https://us.toluna.com/opinions/626149/Would-you-ever-vote-for-an-unmarried-president

etc etc ...

Without a poll I have no idea how such ideas are widespread in the population, but I tend to think they are indicative of how education/transmission shapes people mind into feeling entitled to exert such social pressure unto people...

 

[crubbed]

I have learned that it is possible to still find great joy in the unjust, sadistic game that is life. I think you can too.

Best wishes in the process.

Thank you rareboy... I appreciate it.

Yes it is a learned behaviour NOT to reproduce because we are not simple animals driven by their hormones. In other words human reproduction IS (mostly/usually) an assumed choice rather than an impulse. And because it is a choice, it IS egotistical, psychological and NOT just pure biology.

As said above, the drive is rather to have sex, not especially reproduce, otherwise we wouldn't be attracted to men when we know there is no chance for 2 men to reproduce, or straight men wouldn't be attracted to female if they know they are infertile...

Thank you for this. I totally agree.

Having sex is selfish. Having a child is a gift.

Now, about your depression...... Go see a therapist.

I think this is rude. But anyway. My point is that having a child might be a gift for you as a parent, not necessarily for them...

Without a poll I have no idea how such ideas are widespread in the population, but I tend to think they are indicative of how education/transmission shapes people mind into feeling entitled to exert such social pressure unto people...

I also noticed this. It really bothers me. Thank you for pointing that out. People would rather have a high-profile politician married with children and cheating on his wife than having a celibate politician.

 

[maxpowr9]

Just wait till the "conservatives" gays start looking down on those "licentious" gays that just want to literally fuck around once marriage equality is in all 50 states.

 

[mikemizanin729]

I think giving birth to children is one of the most selfish, short-sighted things mankind can do.

Let's be honest about it. Unless you're Paris Hilton, chances are that your children won't have the simplest of lifes. Everyday we fight against all kinds of threats to stay alive. Depression. Looks. Diseases.

Furthermore, water supply is not enough for everybody in this world. Do you really want to bring people into this world when you don't even know for sure if they'll be provided the means to survive?

The media seem to shovel down our throats the idea we are successful only if we build a family for ourselves. Even the gays are now into it. Well, I beg to differ. I am against reproduction and everything related to it (artificial insemination for example). But this is such a hard truth for some people. You can't 'come out' about this with everybody because not everybody is willing to admit it. I am not even 100% I am in the right, I mean what if I change my mind dramatically in 5 years? What do you guys think?

Dont have kids unless you can afford it it's selfish on the child.
Secondaly thanks for bringing sexy back with (Miss Hilton)

 

[mikemizanin729]

Well to be honest I wish I was not in this world, so I can only wish my mother would have been busy with something different that night.

Making children is more selfish than anything else because you're bringing a new person into the game, that is the game of suffering. IMO

Not untill my 30s then i may have one.

 

[purina]

Do they have tea-cup babies now?

 

[Willie Boy]

I think this is rude.

So, telling someone that really needs to see a therapist about his depression is rude to you, but basically calling children a waste of time isn't? How rude of you.

But anyway. My point is that having a child might be a gift for you as a parent, not necessarily for them...

Right, because being given the gift of life, being given the option to shine, is the same as being thrown in a massive pile of shit.

Maybe you aren't so much depressed as you are lazy? Just laying around waiting for everybody else to do for you and hand you everything on a silver platter, but unwilling to lift a finger for yourself...... Then complaining about how terrible life is for you, and how everything sucks.

 

[mikemizanin729]

(Willieboy) made a great point you sound more like somebody that expects everybody to manage everything for you. I doubt your parents were one bit selfish in giving you life instead you choose to sit around feeling sorry for yoursel instead of getting up and taking action one like yourself comes across as ungrateful and bratty. Unless you live in a third world country you really are just overreacting, my parents gave me the choice in life to sit around or do something they helped me in life, but now i no longer burden them you might try getting up sometime and living a little.

You exist deal with it.

 

[Kulindahr]

I've seen enough kids being dragged around by parents -- usually moms -- who give the attitude that the kids are an inconvenience they have to put up with. With that attitude, I can't imagine that those kids are going to grow up with a very good view of life.

Such families should stop at one kid, period. But to say that all reproduction is bad is just ridiculous.

 

[mikey3000]

This thread really isn't about children, so no point giving an opinion on them.

DING DING DING!!! Winner!

 

[zoltanspawn]

Thanks... I am depressed and I started thinking that only a fool could find joy in such an unjust, sadistic game that is life.

Describing the world as sadistic is merely realistic. People who don't recognize the everyday lack of justice are deluded or possibly stupid.

However, it's quite feasible to remain happy in spite of this obvious knowledge. We are free to seek remedies to our shitty situation, we have our wits and there is always the consolation of contemplating the wisdom of those who've struggled previously. The knowledge that things suck is an old, and much commented on, idea. It might seem awful at first, but it's also quite funny....“Tragedy is when I stub my toe. Comedy is when you fall into an open manhole and die.” ― Mel Brooks.

Find your way out of your depression; you must. Cultivate a few useful illusions as a crutch if you have to, but I would set a long term goal of maintaining the clear vision of reality you already see. I think if you have the resources to bear it, apprehending things as they are is profitable.

You should also know that you are hardly the first to think (abstractly, impersonally) that it is better that all of us should have never been born at all than to suffer the 'imperfections' of this world (I hold this view); however, in light of your depression, I would set aside investigating this idea (see Schopenhauer) until you are happier and able to withstand the difficulty of the idea.

 

[mikey3000]

Describing the world as sadistic is merely realistic. People who don't recognize the everyday lack of justice are deluded or possibly stupid.

No one ever said life is fair. The sooner that lesson is learned, the better off. Trust me on that one.

 

[SaskGuy]

I believe that almost the entire world population was an accident.

Not a pretty thought... but who has kids on purpose?

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

I believe that almost the entire world population was an accident.

Not a pretty thought... but who has kids on purpose?

people who need something to play with and show off to the neighbors

 

[sixthson]

The world would be a better place with more babies.