First (ish) post, same old dilemma

[gaytxn09]

Ok, so it's my second post, but the other one was in a political thread and no one responded. So perhaps I'll be better received with a more gay dilemma?

At any rate, I'm 21, 5'10", 150 lbs. and not too bad looking. Not perfect by any means, but I know I shouldn't be down on myself about it...could be a lot worse. I'm studying abroad in Berlin, and a "friend" of mine is now visiting. I say "friend" because our friendship has been really up and down and really weird, and I don't think I can say that all came from me. We met last summer and have talked more or less every day since...so I guess I can say we're pretty good friends. First of all, he's gay. Cute. Very cute, actually. But the kicker is the boyfriend. Or the "boyfriend." It's a (way) long-distance thing, and they can't be together all the time, so it's kind of a mutual understanding that they're not 100% exclusive. At least that's how I've understood it. So. After long debating whether this boy would come visit me (he's lived in Europe for the past year), he decided to come for 10 days. And that we'd go to Prague during this time as well, where we're staying in a tiny bedroom.... Did I mention that we're sleeping in the same bed at my place too? Giant bed though. Plenty of room to avoid me. And that's been mostly how it's been. From what I can tell, he's not opposed to it, but he won't make the move. I'd have to. He keeps saying, "You know how shy I am" or "I'm so shy." And, admittedly, he *is* kind of shy with people he doesn't know. He also shies away from physical contact with me...like when our knees or something touch on the subway. But it's just been really weird for me. He knows that I think he's attractive. He also knows that I had the hugest crush on him for a while at the beginning of our friendship. The crush is pretty much gone, but the lust is still there. I've never had a relationship, but that's not what I'm looking for here. I've pretty much been "enjoying myself," mostly unsuccessfully, but at any rate, that's more what I'm thinking about. Like...a hot guy whom I like is in my bed. Why aren't we at least making out? I know people say sex screws up a friendship, but I have perfectly normal relationships with people I've slept with on a one-off thing. I also have a friend who is completely awkward and hasn't talked to me after our one-nighter. And...it's not like visitor boy hasn't hinted at anything. Somehow the topic of condoms came up, and I was like, "I don't have any...I never keep any around." And he said, "Well, I always have some around." And I said, "Well I guess that's my problem...I just assume people aren't going to be having sex with me, so I don't bother with having a condom handy." To which he says, "I'm not having sex with anyone, but I still keep them around." Sigh. And I know for a fact that he brought lube with him here. It was on the top of his toiletries, and I had to move his bag to get to my toothbrush. I know, I know...convenient. But it was unzipped and open. And it was on top. No digging. And I was proud of myself for that. He also insists that he's going to spend all his time with me, so...why bring lube? Maybe cuz he's going somewhere else after our visit? But still.... It's just sooo awkward for me, lying there late at night literally inches away and not knowing what to do. Last night, I sat up for almost an hour trying to work up the confidence to ask him if it was as awkward for him as it was for me and if so what we should do about it. My theory is that if we have sex, then that whole "mystery" and "unknown" is gone and we can just be friends who've had sex. In all my life, I've had sex more than once with the same person only ONCE. Mainly, I just get bored. While I know I probably won't get bored with this one, I know that it's not a big deal for me. I won't crave more. I won't even be bothered if we don't have sex again. We're friends. And I want to keep us that way. But it's literally killing me. I slept like 3 hours last night. That's not good. I have a full day of school. AND we're supposed to go out tonight. And we're leaving for Prague at 5 am the next morning. :-( I just want to figure this situation out and get it resolved...it's not good being kept up at night just wondering if his fidgeting is body language saying come get me or if he's just fidgeting. And I know it can't be just hunky dory for him either. He really debated about coming. But then HE was the one who decided to come visit...and not for just a weekend. A week and a half. He also knew up-front that we'd be sleeping in close quarters. So......what do I do now? Do I continue being the martyr? Or should I help him out. He hasn't had sex in over a month (since the boyfriend), and he's said multiple times he wouldn't mind hooking up with a guy who wasn't his boyfriend but that he hasn't, partly because of the boyfriend but mainly because he hasn't gone out much and thus hasn't had the opportunity. But it doesn't go well with the fact he has accounts on gay sites like Gaydar, Dudesnude, MH. But then again, doesn't everyone?

I could use some advice here, dudes. Make it good. And hopefully, I'll get some hot sex out of it too. I talk with this friend a LOT, and a lot of times it's about sex and how mine's been pretty so-so. So blah that I actually don't like sex at all. Just making out and a bit of heavy petting is best for me. And he says that it's amazing and that being with someone good will make it that way. Is he hinting? Or....

So conflicted.

Thanks to all who respond.

 

[Just_Believe18]

Yes, he's hinting. He's waiting for you to "seduce" him. Touching, massaging, and/or drinks will do the trick. Actually sounds pretty easy.

But there are always consequences to your actions. He sounds like the type who would feel weird and guilty afterwards. I can see it actually putting a damper on your trip if he reacts shamefully afterwards.

I don't think your intentions are appropriate anyway. Even if the relationship is "open," all you want to do is have sex with him once. Do you find yourself having sex with most of your gay friends? I think to deny yourself on this one would be good for you. Gay friends shouldn't be hook-ups just to get rid of the "mystery" of what they're like in bed.

 

[luminum]

Wow. That was like running through a swarm of insects.

Okay, this is what I can discern from this:

Bottom line: You talk ALL the time, right? And you've each pussy-footed around it talking about how you're both just "so shy." So if you want it and you know he'd be up for it too, then tell him.

Seriously, you guys sound comfortable enough to do it with no regrets and no hang ups and you both know you want it. At the very least, tell him so you guys can clear the air and cut the tension. And then just do it.

I imagine that if he's brought the lube, dropped the hints, and engaged in this shy-boy talk that he's lying there at night thinking the exact same train of thoughts.

Can you really count on him manning up and asking you? If not, then it looks like you're going to have to do it.

Jiminy Cricket.

 

[tonyboy]

Dude....
Just ask the guy if he's interested in kissing you or in going further.
He's already there for 10 days... If he says he's not interested then you can get on with your tour and stay friends.
If he says hes not interested in sex with you, please dont get all upset about it.

That's just how it goes sometimes. And he seems like a good guy and someone that you could be real friends with. Could be if you stay friends it may turn to sex at some point.

So, just bring it up. After all you know he's been with guys before.... and he did bring lube... Maybe not for you, but who knows.

Don't waste anymore time on this short time together. Just ask him.
And let us know how it pans out.

 

[gaytxn09]

Haha. Wow. So many responses so quickly.

First off, I know it may seem ridiculous and obvious, but I wouldn't have asked if I was sure now would I? And second, I really do want to remain friends, and that's really the only thing that's keeping me from saying anything.

BUT that said, I did leave a note this morning (granted not the most confrontational of things), and well...it contained my log-on password for my computer (not the same as any other passwords, so don't freak or anything), but then I did just suck it up and say, "Hey...this is awkward for me. Don't know if it is for you, but it is for me, and it's been hard for me to sleep. blah blah blah blah" I didn't come out and say anything because I'm scared of his response, but I think he'd get the picture. I was supposed to have class today, so I just wrote the note and went to a meeting I had before class (hence allowing him the password to the computer so he could check emails and surf).

Thing is, I just found out I'm failing 3 out of 4 classes for my study abroad program (No, I don't party every weekend, and I'm a good student, so this is really devastating for me. I'm failing mainly because they didn't originally grant me an extension on my midterms when I had to go visit my granddad in the States who's dying of Stage 4 lung and brain cancer and also because the program "tutors" don't do anything, so I was just left on my own to figure out what and how I was supposed to write these papers. Obviously, I made the wrong choice...I was too general, not critical enough blabbity blah. Still, I don't ever think it's enough to merit failing. But this is definitely not the point. Shit. I get off topic really easily.). My point is, I'm not really in the mood to go to class if I'm failing anyways, so...now I'm at home with my friend. And I saw he's read the note.

Shit.

I'll just get in bed with him, and....

 

[gaytxn09]

Yes, he's hinting. He's waiting for you to "seduce" him. Touching, massaging, and/or drinks will do the trick. Actually sounds pretty easy.

But there are always consequences to your actions. He sounds like the type who would feel weird and guilty afterwards. I can see it actually putting a damper on your trip if he reacts shamefully afterwards.

I don't think your intentions are appropriate anyway. Even if the relationship is "open," all you want to do is have sex with him once. Do you find yourself having sex with most of your gay friends? I think to deny yourself on this one would be good for you. Gay friends shouldn't be hook-ups just to get rid of the "mystery" of what they're like in bed.

Interesting spin. I hope you're right. ;-)

And it's not just for the "mystery." I know I said it was, but I had a crush on this guy for months. If you had a crush on a guy for months, ended up being really good friends, and then he winds up in your bed a year later, wouldn't you want to as well? I don't know. I'm half thinking I'm stupid for even wanting it because we are friends. Shouldn't I be okay with just that? But...sometimes a guy just wants to cuddle. And maybe mess around. And if you can't do that among friends, then who do you do it with? And don't say a boyfriend because well...that's a whole other can of worms. (I was really tempted to say "a whole NOTHER can of worms", but I thought that sounded a little TOO Texan.)

Thanks for the feedback, guys.

 

[gaytxn09]

And I did what I really did NOT want to do. I read his texts. Though, to be fair, they allude to reading my journal, so I guess it's tit for tat then eh?

His boyfriend apparently calls me a not so nice diminutive of my name (I guess it's safe to say I'm Bob--it's a fairly common one--and the guy's bf calls me Blob). I weigh 150 lbs and look fine, but I still feel like I'm fat. So...whether or not the whole Blob thing was just the rhyming thing or not is still up in the air. And...there are no outgoing ones just the inbox, so I guess it's pretty hard to tell. Because the only one "Awwww don't worry about Blob. I'll beat him up when I meet him. " doesn't really make much sense without the proper outgoing one. That can go either way. I'm still kinda mad that he'd read/want to read my journal. I've always been the snoopy one. And until just now, I hadn't been, so I was really proud. Now I'm feeling like dirt.

Sigh...guess it was too good to be true. Why would I think he was flirting anyways? Is it possible he's just winding me up? Though...why would you pay to fly to Berlin and stay with someone for 10 days just to get your kicks from winding someone up? I dunno. I shouldn't have gotten my hopes up. Sorry to have bothered you guys. Nothing good really happens to me anyway.

 

[rareboy]

Just a word or two of general advice.

Your original post and subsequent responses do exhibit a tendency to wander all over the place. I suspect this is a large part of the problem with your academic work and personal life as well.

You need to learn the beauty of structuring thoughts and actions, instead of just laying out a huge mess of words and hoping that someone will take the time to extract the gems.

You also need to stop blaming everyone else for your failure in your studies. You are the one who is responsible for your academic future now, not the profs or tutors. I would strongly recommend that you find a mentor who will help you 'train' to become a critical thinker and masterful writer. I suspect that this type of discipline will help you in your romantic life as well.

 

[KaraBulut]

If you're not mature enough to talk about sex, you probably shouldn't be having it.

If you're going to be sharing a bed with a friend who has a boyfriend who is already hostile toward you, then you and your friend better have a frank talk before he comes.

Instead of agonizing over what may or may not happen, get the issue out there and be clear on what can/cannot happen so that you both can sleep instead of laying there waiting for the other person to make the first move.

 

[EvilForce]

A.) Always, always, always have condoms dude.

B.) Shut up and kiss him! Seriously. (He may prefer lube to jerk off with btw)

C.) Where you kids staying at in Prague? I lived there for 3 months. Fun times.

 

[G-Lexington]

He met you online, he came to visit you, and now he's "shy"? Sure, OK.

First off, talk to him. Seriously. Not in a giggly, "Oh IDK" kind of way. Ask him about his boyfriend outright. "Is your boyfriend cool with you having sex with other guys?" When he says yes - because he will - then ask "Can I be one of those other guys?"

Then have fun.

Lex

 

[gaytxn09]

I admit...I do have a tendency to wander around the place. But that is no reason to assume I'm a bad student and need a mentor. That is actually quite rude, and I take offense at that. I have a 3.631 at a second tier university. I don't fail. Moreover, I know that I'm to blame for a part of the miscommunication (as with the boy), but I wouldn't just lie to make myself look better online. There's no point. I came here to vent and ask for honest feedback about a frustrating situation, not a comment on my academic character.

Point is, the program here did not inform all of the students about what kind of essays we were to write, and compounded with my grandfather being ill, I didn't have the time or the wherewithal to focus until I got back from the States. Then I had a day to write something, and then I was told I wasn't allowed to turn anything else in and should stop writing. Then I got an email two days later saying I could finish and turn it in the next day. And to top it all off, I wasn't allowed for my essays to be revised because my tutor was grading them, sort of a mix between a catch-22 and a cosmic joke. And my tutor told me that I wouldn't have received the grades I did had we revised them first. So...why take off for something I could not have known.

BUT the point of this thread was the "romantic" one, and I'm sorry I muddled things with the academic note. It was just supposed to be a sign of my overall mood. I had thought I wouldn't get snarky comments where it said "no flame zone," but perhaps it meant something else...like no fairies allowed.

At any rate, the situation was somewhat resolved. I wrote the note, he read the note, we talked, and no sex was involved. Nor will it be involved. Btw I am mature enough to talk about sex. I just felt awkward because I wanted to do it the right way. You don't just go up to someone and say, "Let's have sex!" if you don't know what they're thinking. It doesn't work that way. Hence why I asked. I'm quite capable of being awkward already, thank you. I wanted to see what other people thought because this guy is a friend. And the boyfriend isn't particularly hostile (hence the at the end of his text...he was joking). He actually had thought we hooked up long before last summer. Their relationship is a bit open. Not completely. But not so open that their intent is always to hook up with others. Whatever. The case is that it won't happen, it won't ever happen, and I'm sorry I wasted your time.

So much for me ever joining this community....

 

[G-Lexington]

>>>Btw I am mature enough to talk about sex. I just felt awkward because I wanted to do it the right way. You don't just go up to someone and say, "Let's have sex!" if you don't know what they're thinking. It doesn't work that way.

It does. At least when you're talking about someone you met online, and then decided to meet in person. If you know them well enough to share a room with them, you know them well enough to approach the topic of sex with them. Especially when there's a lot of vague hints and possible suggestions floating through the air. You can either keep playing the game of "tee hee", or you can nudge it forward. Asking him precisely what I suggested - "Does your boyfriend let you have sex with guys outside the relationship?" followed by "Would you let me be one of those guys?" is straightforward, non-pressuring, and leaves him wide open to either accept or decline.

You're an adult now. You're allowed to treat sex in an adult fashion.

And I'm sorry. When people ask me for advice, I actually give it.

Lex

 

[rareboy]

Well my dear boy.

I think you'll note that I speculated that the same problems you exhibit in your written communication might also be present in your romantic life as well.

I see you agree.

Did I call you a bad student? No.

You obviously don't understand the role of a mentor, do you?

If you have a superior intellect, you need to start channelling it better and communicating clearly and succinctly. And I swear, it will help you in the romance department as well.

Do you also see a pattern here? You flounce off in a huff because others sabotaged your academic term and now you're slamming the door as you leave this room because you didn't understand the intent of a post...which you are more than free to vehemently disagree with.

So, I hope that once you've recovered from your dudgeon, you'll give some serious thought to what was suggested in order to benefit you in all facets of your life.

 

[luminum]

While the advice given is straight forward and addresses possible issues that the OP might need to consider, it's not hard at all to see how what was written could give him the impression that he was being called immature ("If you're not mature enough to talk about sex, you probably shouldn't be having it."), then critiqued on his study habits which were clearly incidental to his main issue, and then suggested that he was irresponsible. Furthermore, his own perceptions of sex were then rebuffed as being childish, when in fact, I don't believe anyone has written the authority on the dynamics of sex and how it should and always will be approached by adults. Do modern adults even treat sex like "adults" should? In fact, they almost seem condescending and derisive. Is it any wonder that someone his age would become defensive?

Even if the responses weren't intended to be, I would think that the commenters would be able to recognize this misunderstanding and approach the OP with a response that clarifies their actual intention and attempts to smooth things and reiterate their actual message in a more constructive manner. Instead, it seems like just as much defensiveness on their ends. "What? You have issues with my stern advice? Well, you obviously don't understand anything. That's your problem."

Are we looking at an individual trying to figure out their perspective and asserting it as someone who "just obviously doesn't want help" because he took issue with our own asserted perspectives?

 

[KaraBulut]

gaytn09:

Hopefully you will return and continue reading this thread.

Since you're new here, you are correct - this is the no-flame zone. After a couple of trips to "Hot Topics", one will appreciate the difference.

The advice here varies from very nurturing ("I feel your pain") to supportive to confrontive. And most of it is pretty good.

Occasionally, we get people who take the style or delivery of the advice personally. It is never meant to be a offensive or a personal affront even if it's not always pleasant or the advice that you might want to hear.

Listen. Accept. Choose what works for you. Move on.

Most of the advice you got was "Do what feels right to you" and "Talk to him". You have done both. Good for you. And whether you choose to continue to participate in the forums, I hope you enjoy your visit with your friend.

 

[gaytxn09]

Sigh. I dunno. I just wanted to say that people shouldn't be quick to assume. But a lot was right on. I just didn't want people to think I was some blow-off student. At any rate, apparently the guy checks this site (and maybe the bf too?), so that would be fun if I got a comment about that. We already had a talk. A long one. And then we spent a lot of this afternoon looking at randoms on GayRomeo and Manhunt and such. And, of course, he got all the messages. Every time we logged on my account and did the same thing we were doing with his, nothing happened. He got about a BILLION messages, and I got zero. Precisely my point. I was awkward about the fact he was coming because he is rather attractive, even though he thinks it's not so. And I was just nervous about going to clubs with him because...well...all that would do is make me feel bad about myself if everyone swarms him and I get shoved to the side, which is bound to happen. The whole thing was I thought I'd be jealous if he did end up making out/hooking up with some random because it wouldn't have been me. And it's stupid. And we talked about that as well. And we both said it was stupid because we were friends. But it's not like I can change what my hormones/body feels. Which is why it is frustrating. Sigh. Going out now. Wish me luck.

 

[G-Lexington]

No offense meant, but why are you doing this stuff with him? I can accept that he'd rather not get into a physical relationship with you - that's fine. But then why spend your afternoon together looking for hook-ups? I've got plenty of friends - gay and straight - and I can't imagine spending an afternoon with them by looking for guys on manhunt. Why not spend the day together doing something together? Going shopping, doing some fun activity?

Lex

 

[gaytxn09]

Oh okay, I think I need to clarify. We didn't meet online. Hello. We worked together 24-hours a day for a month. That's how we became good-ish friends. Then, I wouldn't leave him alone, so we became better friends (meaning I was persistent and made sure I kept in contact with people from the summer jobs).

And...we weren't looking for hookups. Just btw.

 

[rareboy]

then critiqued on his study habits which were clearly incidental to his main issue

NO ONE criticized his study habits. NO ONE.

While the sturm und drang about failing essay assignments may have just been some incidental dross thrown in for drama value, advice was given on the OP's communicative skills...with the suggestion that the same lack of clear communication skills may also be part of his problem in his love life.

So don't piss on me because I perceive that the core of the entire dilemma here is the ability to communicate, not study habits.