For OUT guys: Are you bothered or offended by closet cases?

[CorkyMcG]

I am not offended when people choose to stay in the closet - as I feel that is a personal choice for the individual as to whether they come out or not.

What does offend me - is when someone seems to try and force others to share their same values or way of thinking... like, making a blanket statement that "all gay people need to come out" (who are they to say what someone else needs to do?) ... or, those who say that "gay people who haven't come out haven't accepted their sexuality." (Who are they to say what or how other people are thinking?)

Many people who do not come out have valid reasons why they remain closeted. Some have jobs or careers where coming out would not be appropriate, or they might lose their job if they did. Other people believe that their coming out could hurt those around them they love very much and they don't want to hurt those people. I know some, too, who just don't believe that it is anybody's business but their own who knows or who doesn't.

But, whether or not anybody else finds these reasons valid is beside the point... to me - if someone thinks their reason for not coming out of the closet is valid - that's all that matters.

 

[halubtsi]

I'm not offended or disappointed with closet cases either. I was there once...and fairly recently too. As long as the closet case doesn't start pretending he's straight by marrying a woman and having children, then I have no qualms with him. I take serious issue with married closet-cases who cheat on their wives and feel no remorse or guilt for the infidelity they're committing.

 

[chilly_willy]

gay people should be the last to be bashing other gays. whether or not a person is "straight acting" or "closeted" doesn't make them any less gay or any less of a person.

 

[Sausy]

This is out of sheer ignorance and curiosity, but could someone explain to me why that comment was uncalled for. I'm not supporting it or anything, but I'm just not entirely sure what it means. Can someone PM me about it. Thanks.

I'lldo better than PM you-I'll explain it short and sweet here,since I wish to have nothing to do with an Alfie post ever again!He and Sixthson have had their disagrrements recently-sixthson being more conservative politically-and maybe Sixthson had been a little cutesy with his indirect jabs at General Alfie,a little petulant,but never outright cruel and unfair!Alfie had no right to slander the family arrangement of Sixthson's household!Neither Sixthson or his partner of the last twenty years are in the closet,and the reference to Sixthson's partner as a dog screwer was total sewage !To have a family is a dream many gay and lesbian couples would like to make reality for themselves-the wish for a family is not ilimited to straight married couples!Theyare most certainly not attempting to fit in to a straight world-who appointed Alfie judge of the human heart!THey first adopted a son from a romanoian orphanage several years back,and over the past few months they adopted the boy's younger brothers-they kept a family that was without a mother or father,stuck in an orphanage needing love and support,together-a pretty amazing thing!Once without hope in Romania,the boys have a chance for happiness and prosperity that they may never have known without the love and compassion of Sixthson and his partner!I don't want to see Alfie punished for this except in realizing what a terrible thing he did in petty revenge over a silly and harmless teasing by Sixthson!this is now located in a no-flame thread,so Alfie,watch your response carefully!I won't make you a martyr to the leftists here who eagerly buy your junk,so I urge only that a warning be issued-his post probably occured before the switch from Hot Topics to this no-flame thread,so a banning would be too steep in this case a punishment,if the possibility exists in this situation.You should measure the emotional consequences of your words,as well as what that does to the community of JUB at large.I pity you,sir!

 

[Eagle653]

Thanks, sausageeater for clarifying some of this.

I want to echo what sausageeater said about this thread now being in a no-flame zone. When Alfie posted his first post that has generated this reaction, it was in Hot Topics where there is more leaway in the types of posts. Now, it is in a No Flame Zone and we need to keep it that way.

Thanks, all.

Now,

 

[hotdog1846]

Thanks, sausageeater for clarifying some of this.

I want to echo what sausageeater said about this thread now being in a no-flame zone. When Alfie posted his first post that has generated this reaction, it was in Hot Topics where there is more leaway in the types of posts. Now, it is in a No Flame Zone and we need to keep it that way.

Thanks, all.

Now,

Oh. Thanks for the clarification, averageguy.

 

[sb]

It bothers me that people support the anti gay agenda by living their life as something they are not... or giving people the impression they are something they are not. It bothers me that people hate themselves so much they wont be themselves.

It offends me because staying in the closet says to me that your sexuality is something to be ashamed of. It offends me that people tangle others in their self hatred such as wives and children....

It annoys me when people who have chosen to stay in the closet say they do it because life is easier if you are straight...

so thats a yes and a yes from me....

 

[chilly_willy]

people have the right to live their lives as they choose, including closeted.

 

[flash729]

It's all part of the process... in or out. I'm not going to be someone that's going to try to force my opinion on someone else... "live and let live." Just wished the gay community was so polarized on certain issues -- united we could make an unbelieveable force.
-Flash

 

[Soilwork]

It's all part of the process... in or out. I'm not going to be someone that's going to try to force my opinion on someone else... "live and let live." Just wished the gay community was so polarized on certain issues -- united we could make an unbelieveable force.
-Flash

it's pretty difficult to "Unite" with people who don't have the guts to come out, unfortunately.

 

[FREDDIE187]

I don't have a problem with a guy in the closet. But I do think it can be very sad. If a guy knows he is gay and pretends no to be, he can loose out so much.

How are you ever going to have a meaningfull relationship with another gay if you are in the closet?

Think of all the oppertunities you miss because gay guys think you are straight.

One day when you finally come out, you will always regret the lost years.

 

[FREDDIE187]

I'm one of those closet cases...although I never "pretend"...more like I simply don't mention anything that would qualify me as straight and rather sometimes I'll say/do something a bit suspect/gay...I'm simply not saying the words (much, I have come out to a select individual) for many reasons...and yes, fear is one of them. Why someone would find it bothersome or disappointing that I'm not out is offending to ME...lol.

What is disappointing is that we live in a world where it's not always possible to easily be out and not destroy everything in your life. I might come out fully or partially if I have the need (a boyfriend)...right now, if I came out, I think most would not understand why...but if I had a boyfriend who I was serious about, that would change things quite a bit...of course I'd have to be quite sure.

I have read and understood what you are saying.

You say if you had a b/f you might consider comming out. Have you ever thought that if you were out, you almost certainly would have had a b/f by now?

That is the problem with being in the closet, life passes you by.

Like Soil says above, how do we unite with people that are not out.

Just a thought!

 

[chilly_willy]

there are many gays out there who by the standards of some of the posters here are closeted, but they do lead full, happy lives with a relationship. i am an example of just that. i'm sorry that i'm not "loud and proud", i just don't think that its everyone's business nor do i have the right to just run around telling everyone. if you want people to respect the fact that you are gay, you also have to respect what others believe as well. there are things about other people that we all could do without knowing. if someone has a problem with a subject/idea, then it is no one's place to force that upon them. being in the closet is not sad, its a choice. being in the closet does not mean that you are just letting life pass on by. if someone is happy with the choices that they have made for their lives, then who are you or anyone else to tell them otherwise. if you don't like it then fine, thats your choice, just like its mine and other's choice to be "closeted".

 

[Soilwork]

you know, it's funny.

whenever I hear closeted men defend their right to stay in the closet, they all say these really odd things like those of us who are out are "Running around telling everyone" or we're "Shouting if from the rooftops" or we're "Loud and Proud".

I'm just a guy. I'm gay. No, I dont' tell the people in line at the bank, but if it comes up in conversation, my BF is my BF, not my "friend" or "the guy I live with".

when people ask me what I did over the weekend, I tell them that "My BF and I went to San Diego to hang out with friends" or "I went on a ride with the Queer Bikers of SoCal".

that's not being "Loud and Proud". It's not being "Scared and Ashamed".

 

[Soilwork]

oh, and the title of this thread was "For OUT guys", but I notice that chilly willy and a few other closeted guys have answered the poll anyway. You know, I didn't answer that "For BI guys" poll there was a while ago.

 

[chilly_willy]

who the hell said i was "scared and ashamed"?

i'm not. and i also tell people when it comes up in convo.

my whole point is that gay people can't sit and bitch about wanting equality under the law, to stop being hated against, etc and then turn right around and bash other gays for their life choices. i've been dealing with that all my life because when some other gay men find out that I am gay, they talk shit because i apparently don't "fit the mold" of what a gay man should be because for the most part i am still closeted in some cases, cause i "walk, talk, act, dress, etc" like a straight man...

its shit like that that can make it difficult for others to come out.

 

[Soilwork]

who the hell said i was "scared and ashamed"?

um.. nobody said that. I intentionally didn't mention any names at all.

why? did I strike a nerve? (I'm always doing that.. bad soil...)

 

[sb]

my whole point is that gay people can't sit and bitch about wanting equality under the law, to stop being hated against, etc and then turn right around and bash other gays for their life choices.

yes we can. why should we be supportive of men who choose to stay in the closet when they aren't supportive of us?

being in the closet is not sad, its a choice. being in the closet does not mean that you are just letting life pass on by

its very sad and not being who you really are does mean you are letting life pass you by.

its shit like that that can make it difficult for others to come out.

it always seems to be someone else's fault when someone chooses to stay in the closet.

 

[Soilwork]

it always seems to be someone else's fault when someone chooses to stay in the closet.

you know, sb, you and I have come to blows SO many times in here... but lately, I find myself shocked that I've been nodding in agreement with SO many of the things you've been saying.

either I hit my head harder on the pavement than I thought, or you're a robot impersonating sb.

either way.. touche..

 

[Battlebrother]

It's funny to read all of the responses on here... we've all known the fear of what lies outside of that infamous closet, and we all know how hard it is to take that step out... the fear.. the denial.. all that stuff..

The thing is... out guys seem to forget how hard it was after they've been out for a while..I know, cus I'm guilty of it too... I used to hate out and loud gay guys who looked down upon me when I was in the closet... but now I'm one of them..

And closeted guys... either go one way or another... they either force themselves to believe that they'll be happier staying in the closet because they're too scared to come out, (which I personally believe is cheating yourself of your true identity).. or they want to come out so badly, and eventually it'll come out sooner or later.

The thing is... it's all individual choices.. I think living a lie, and (in some cases) getting married to a women is cheating yourself and definitely cheating your family... BUT that's YOUR choice, and I'm not going to try to change your mind, or be rude to you about it.

I know everyone's situation is different... everyone has different loved ones who believe in different things.. but it all comes down to this... we all need eachother's support... we need out and loud gay people to fight for our rights... and show the world that we're not so bad after all.. and those who choose to live silently, well that's your decision and we should respect it...

but if you choose to live like that... please don't go and get married and drag a women and a future family into a big bag of lies.. cus that's just selfish.. especially if you think you can get away with having flings with guys on the side... i think that's just cruel.