For OUT guys: Are you bothered or offended by closet cases?

[sixthson]

I think the FEAR of coming out is often greater than the REALITY of being out. Some definitely pay a greater price for being open than others. STill, I would never presume to tell anyone else that they must come out. There is frequently an arrogance or superiority that comes from being out, sort of like an ex-smoker. Personally, I can't ever imagine living my life hiding from friends and family, but I support anyone's choice.

 

[chilly_willy]

yes we can. why should we be supportive of men who choose to stay in the closet when they aren't supportive of us?



its very sad and not being who you really are does mean you are letting life pass you by.



it always seems to be someone else's fault when someone chooses to stay in the closet.

no one is blaming anyone... it does make it hard to come out when other gays bash you for your own choices. and we are supportive "out" gays, what the hell does that mean? if i am fucking happy with my choices, i have a good job, and good partner, then how am i letting life just pass me by? please...lol...

 

[Soilwork]

we all need eachother's support... we need out and loud gay people to fight for our rights... and show the world that we're not so bad after all.. and those who choose to live silently, well that's your decision and we should respect it...

ok.. (and you know how much I love you and this isn't anything other than me kinda sitting up and debating...) so what am I getting out of this?..

you say we need each other's support, and I get that the closeted guys need is "Out and loud" people to fight for our rights, but what do I need from some guy who hides away and reaps the benefits without bringing anything to the table?

What we need is more people on the front lines.. not more people in the fox hole hoping that we win.

 

[chilly_willy]

ok.. (and you know how much I love you and this isn't anything other than me kinda sitting up and debating...) so what am I getting out of this?..

you say we need each other's support, and I get that the closeted guys need is "Out and loud" people to fight for our rights, but what do I need from some guy who hides away and reaps the benefits without bringing anything to the table?

What we need is more people on the front lines.. not more people in the fox hole hoping that we win.

who says that we aren't out there fighting for those same rights too? there are other ways of getting that shit done other than being "loud and proud".

and how are you fighting? hell, you work for a gay porn company that promotes a false image of homosexuality, etc. LMFAO not to mention of fraternities...lol

 

[Soilwork]

hell, you work for a gay porn company that promotes a false image of homosexuality, etc. LMFAO

um.. what?

I work for an adult film company that features solo men. Not seeing how that's a "False Image of homosexulaity". Not seeing how that's anything to do with homosexuality at all.. straight men jack-off too, you know.

 

[sb]

and we are supportive "out" gays, what the hell does that mean?

you are supportive how?... by pretending you don't exist... by treating who you are as something you should be ashamed of?...

thanks for the support

 

[chilly_willy]

you are supportive how?... by pretending you don't exist... by treating who you are as something you should be ashamed of?...

thanks for the support

i am not pretending that i don't exist nor am i ashamed of anything other than gay gay bashers, they don't deserve any support

 

[Soilwork]

I have to say that I NEVER tire of people who when debating with me decide to try to "low-blow" me by attacking what I do for a living. I'm quite proud of what I do for a living, and I'm proud of the quality of the work I do.

Now.. what were we talking about?

 

[chilly_willy]

ur right, a persons personal life is just that, personal. being a senator has nothing to do with being gay and vice versa. being an actor has nothing to do with being gay (unless they draw on it for a role on the subject or if they are just good at faking it *wink*), etc. i think that outside of a drag queen performer, like Always said, being gay has nothing to do with someone's job or how they got into it.

 

[Battlebrother]

ok.. (and you know how much I love you and this isn't anything other than me kinda sitting up and debating...) so what am I getting out of this?..

you say we need each other's support, and I get that the closeted guys need is "Out and loud" people to fight for our rights, but what do I need from some guy who hides away and reaps the benefits without bringing anything to the table?

What we need is more people on the front lines.. not more people in the fox hole hoping that we win.

Hey..I agree...lol... I was just trying to be the buffer.. but like i said.. we should just respect their decision..

Ok... now i just feel like a cop out and i'm sitting on the fence... grrr... damn you Soilwork for being so damn abrupt with everyone...

How about I just agree that we need more people to fight the good fight.. but I also think we shouldn't feel we have to pressure people to do it.. cus it's gotta be something THEY want to do.. and they feel strongly for.

Ahem... In addition... if you're gay, and you feel that we shouldn't be fighting for our rights... wtf is up with that?

Oh btw.. Soilwork.. it's all good..i enjoy a good debate as much as the next guy... As long as I can punish you later.. k?

 

[Mr Frodo]

I don't know that i am offended, unless they are in a position of Power, i.e. politics. Now having said that i think it does hurt "our cause" for lack of a better word. I think that a lot of the reason we don't have the same rights afforded to straight people is because our numbers are not truely known and if you stay in the closet and live a closeted life you are just perpetuating our role as 2nd class citizens. So wow maybe i am offended. Come out Come out Where ever you are.

 

[Battlebrother]

I don't know that i am offended, unless they are in a position of Power, i.e. politics. Now having said that i think it does hurt "our cause" for lack of a better word. I think that a lot of the reason we don't have the same rights afforded to straight people is because our numbers are not truely known and if you stay in the closet and live a closeted life you are just perpetuating our role as 2nd class citizens. So wow maybe i am offended. Come out Come out Where ever you are.

That's true.. We do have more power in numbers.. and the more people who are out and proud, the more str8 people will realize that maybe we aren't such a minority...

"we're here... we're queer... and there's nothing you can do about it" .. hehe.. woot woot!

 

[Soilwork]

How about I just agree that we need more people to fight the good fight.. but I also think we shouldn't feel we have to pressure people to do it.. cus it's gotta be something THEY want to do.. and they feel strongly for.

beautifully stated.

thanks.

 

[Rockercub]

I'm surprised nobody has used the passing-for-white comparison (unless I missed it). How would you feel if you were black in the Jim Crow south and someone of mixed race who passed for white got a high paying job by not announcing his racial background? I think my first reaction would be that this person was a sell-out. However, if he used his new job and money to support the black community in some fashion, I would feel differently, so I guess it depends quite a bit on the person's actions.

This is why I chose “Depends on the Circumstance,” but still, I think a closeted person would have a tough time convincing me of the necessity of his being closeted. I’ve read that the biggest influence on a person’s opinion regarding gay issues is knowing someone gay. Think about that. This makes coming out a HUGE political move. If every person in the closet came out and influenced just one person to change their view of gays, imagine the support we might have. So I have to say that if a closeted person told me they stayed closeted for their own comfort level, my answer would be, “Get over it!” A little bit of discomfort isn’t too much to ask when you’re part of a minority that’s still discriminated against and you can do something to help. Imagine a mixed race person in my original comparison telling a black person, “I’m just not comfortable being black.”

 

[M4P]

What offends me is the Saturday Night Special who's done everyone in the bar and then returns to his white color office as Mr Straight and gay bashes to appease his white trash conservative co-workers and friends!

 

[sixthson]

What offends me is the Saturday Night Special who's done everyone in the bar and then returns to his white color office as Mr Straight and gay bashes to appease his white trash conservative co-workers and friends!

What you are describing here is not so much a closeted person as it is a hypocrit and a liar...the worst kind. These are the types who don't have the balls to just be in the closet.

 

[chilly_willy]

My being a professional soldier for eleven years had nothing to do with my personal life either, but my commander and the Army thought otherwise.

Its not a matter that your personal life has anything to do with your job, its a matter of being honest with the very public you draw your fame and foutunes from, and/or serve.

Until we live in a world where my gay life doesn't get me fired, then we need those that make their living serving the public, who take public dollars, who increase their person incomes by public fame, to come out. We need our Reggie Jackson, our Robert Henry Lawrence Jr., our Thurgood Marshall.

"Come out, come out, wherever you are.... and meet the young lady who fell from a star"

i can see what you are saying to a point, but the point is that being gay isn't going to make you any better or worse at any job/profession nor should being gay be your reasoning for getting that job or going into a profession. It should defintely be a source of motivation in some/many cases, but not a reasoning. For example, if one decides to become a senator or any other gov't official for the purpose of introducing gay related legislation, then you are doing so for the wrong reasons, but it should definitely be a source of motivation for doing such things.

if you are a movie star, musician, or anything else, you have just as much right to your personal privacy as anyone else. if they are in the soptlight and they are openly out, then great, to some/many they would be great role models. but in the end, they aren't popular actors, singers, etc because they are gay, its because they are good at acting, singing, etc.

 

[chilly_willy]

I'm surprised nobody has used the passing-for-white comparison (unless I missed it). How would you feel if you were black in the Jim Crow south and someone of mixed race who passed for white got a high paying job by not announcing his racial background? I think my first reaction would be that this person was a sell-out. However, if he used his new job and money to support the black community in some fashion, I would feel differently, so I guess it depends quite a bit on the person's actions.

This is why I chose “Depends on the Circumstance,” but still, I think a closeted person would have a tough time convincing me of the necessity of his being closeted. I’ve read that the biggest influence on a person’s opinion regarding gay issues is knowing someone gay. Think about that. This makes coming out a HUGE political move. If every person in the closet came out and influenced just one person to change their view of gays, imagine the support we might have. So I have to say that if a closeted person told me they stayed closeted for their own comfort level, my answer would be, “Get over it!” A little bit of discomfort isn’t too much to ask when you’re part of a minority that’s still discriminated against and you can do something to help. Imagine a mixed race person in my original comparison telling a black person, “I’m just not comfortable being black.”

there is a HUGE difference between a person's race and a person's sexuality, they cannot be equated like that.

unlike races, for the most part, there aren't defining characteristics for a person's sexuality. a gay person could be of any race.

its part of the whole reason that i do not believe in the term "gay community/culture". cause there truly is no common characteristic for gays other than the attraction to one of the same sex. homosexuality isn't bound by any single race, religion, sex, etc.

and even if someone is famous and gay, closeted or not, telling the whole world isn't a prerequisite for them to help the cause. it can be done annonymously just as easily as if otherwise. but in the end, one's personaly privacy and choices have to be respected, its their life.

 

[Rockercub]

there is a HUGE difference between a person's race and a person's sexuality, they cannot be equated like that.

Well, I wouldn’t call my comparison an “equation.” Although I agree that there are differences, I think the similarities are greater.

unlike races, for the most part, there aren't defining characteristics for a person's sexuality. a gay person could be of any race.

its part of the whole reason that i do not believe in the term "gay community/culture". cause there truly is no common characteristic for gays other than the attraction to one of the same sex. homosexuality isn't bound by any single race, religion, sex, etc.

That makes no sense. There isn’t any common characteristic for a race either, except the genetic markers that define the racial traits. Sure, someone can be gay outside of gay culture, but someone can be black outside of black culture as well. And blacks are not bound by a single religion or sex, so I don’t really get your point.

and even if someone is famous and gay, closeted or not, telling the whole world isn't a prerequisite for them to help the cause. it can be done annonymously just as easily as if otherwise. but in the end, one's personaly privacy and choices have to be respected, its their life.

Of course it’s not a prerequisite, and I respect people’s personal choices, but that’s not the question at hand. The question asked was: Are you bothered or offended by closet cases?

I don't see how it would be anyone's place to be bothered or offended by someone else's personal choice to stay in the closet.

It's my place to be bothered because that person's personal choice has an impact on the ways gays are treated as a whole.

 

[chilly_willy]

you are equating Rockercub. you are saying that the comparission to races is the same as the comparission of sexuality and it isn't. and yes there are defining characteristics for the different races. Those of African decent have dark complection, etc. In many cases, but not all, you can look and know what ancestry of race a person has. You can't just look at a person and know that they are gay (in most cases). you simply cannot compare a racial issue to that of a sexuality issue the way you are doing so.

and how can someone's person choice to not come out of the closet going to change your life or make such a dramatic affect? yes, things like protests and what not do their part to bring awareness, but in the country and many others, politics is what it comes down to. you don't have to be out of the closet to help bring up legislation and you don't have to be out of the closet to vote.