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  • The Support & Advice forum is a no-flame zone.
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For OUT guys: Are you bothered or offended by closet cases?

Are you bothered or offended by guys who refuse to come out of the closet?

  • Total voters
    249
pausanias_usa said:
Um . . . isn't this supposed to be a "no flame" zone?
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its supposed to be, but all its been is a bashing zone for gays to bash other gays for not being out.
 
If someone is in the closet then that is there personal choice is it not? I am not offended by anyone that is not an openly "OUT" Guy, after all we are all in very different situations and not always possible nor wise for them to come out of the safe haven they have in the closet. I mean these days of lot of guys who have been (or still are) married have and some still are supressing the gay side of them, for many reasons, as In my day it was not the easeist thing in the world to admit that you were gay, let alone come out. and to this day there are many gay men out there who are still in that situation, so it all comes down to Personal Choice, as there as so many pitfalls about coming out for guys who are or have been married in the past, ( i was a married guy for a few years) not now I am totaly out but i dd have agreat support network and that has to be in place not just for the older generation but the younger ones too, who still struggle in the coming out process.
 
Well - I haven't bothered to read all the responses here....

...but I will mention one word that I think is appropriate...

TOLERANCE
:D

My sexuality may be flexible - a fact that is known by one or two close friends - but I see no need to shout it out to the world in general. If you don't agree with that - tough!
 
Thank you pausanias_usa! Indeed... this a no flame zone. When I first read the responses at this thread first openend I had sinking feeling that this might be a topic that could push peoples buttons... that's good and that's bad... good that you're so passionate about your belief... so bad if it goes into a battle of words that hurt the innocent in the heat of winning an arguement.

Brothers, and even if you don't want to admit it... that's what we are, please remember to temper your words. I've always believed if it comes down to a choice between being right and being kind... you should always be kind first. To some that may mean to just say "we'll have to agree to disagree" then drop it.

-Flash
 
Soilwork said:
when someone tells a homophobic joke at work.. do you laugh? do you stand up for yourself?
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Chilly.. you keep avoiding this one.

I've asked three times now.
 
Soilwork said:
when someone tells a homophobic joke at work.. do you laugh? do you stand up for yourself?

But like sb said.. those in the closet are always saying it's someone else's fault.
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I laugh at gay jokes which are not offensive...not at homophobic jokes. I'm starting to think I'm actually unofficially out of the closet. I'm finding most people are starting to understand and I'm not really hiding anything except the words "I'm gay" which are unnecessary.

But technically I'm still in the closet. Am I being dishonest as some say? I don't think so...I'm being private. If I found some guy to be with, fell in love, etc. then I wouldn't hide him, but I wouldn't go around saying "I'm gay, everyone support me and my boyfriend, but it doesn't matter if you don't, because this is my choice".

And yes, it is "someone else's fault" that I'm "in the closet"...but like others have said, not everyone can do everything to change that. It's technically not anyone's fault, because I could of course could come out easily (ie. just say it). I fortunately accept my situation and understand I'm not able to come out without losing other things which are more important to me.

I'm young, I'm at university...I have enough of a tough time with that, why would I want to move out, destroy what I already have, when what I have isn't all that bad? (not to mention, how would I ever do that in the first place?) Of course it might be nice to be out, but I'd rather be mostly in the closet because of my family and friends, than be out but alone and perhaps risk being alienated. My situation is quite different. I'm not very independent yet, I have no job obviously, I have no real close friends...all I have is my homophobic family and more distant friends, which even if I did come out could only pity me.

But really, is it necessary to come out? I'm never pretending to be straight...I only may seem to be because I don't have a boyfriend, I actually have very few male friends even...I never say I'm gay, seriously...but most people know I'm not quite "straight" in any aspect of my life. Will the fact that they know I like guys make any difference in any of our lives except that they'll feel sorry for me and find it kind of nasty?

As for privacy...I believe sexuality in general is a private thing. That doesn't mean hide your boyfriend from any living person and act like there's nothing going on...but who you choose to love or have sex with hardly has anything to do with who you are as a person.

And from the look of it we have a lot of people here who like to look down on others who "aren't as strong" and making the "wrong decisions" in the life these "people on the other side of the internet" don't know or understand.
 
RenaissanceMan said:
Will the fact that they know I like guys make any difference in any of our lives except that they'll feel sorry for me and find it kind of nasty?
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wow.. yeah, ok.. if that's the kind of people you have in your life... hey.. knock yourself out.

meh.. to tell you the truth, I don't REALLY care that much... there's only one person who's really flying off the handle in this thread, and he's one of the closeted ones. I'm just having fun playing devil's advocate, really.

It really doesn't effect me that much, either way. All of the gay men in my life are out in most aspects of their lives.. not work necessarily, and I think one of my friends still hasn't told his parents... but yes, I live in a place where being in the closet is just stupid... there's more gay people here than pigeons and nobody bats an eyelash either way.
 
Soilwork said:
Chilly.. you keep avoiding this one.

I've asked three times now.
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where i work people have enough respect for people not to do shit like that...

not once in the 10 years i've worked there have i heard a single joke of that nature...
 
really.

wow.

not a single homophobic joke in ten years, and they all respect people but you still can't come out to them.

interesting.

ok.. I'm done.
 
Soilwork said:
wow.. yeah, ok.. if that's the kind of people you have in your life... hey.. knock yourself out.

meh.. to tell you the truth, I don't REALLY care that much... there's only one person who's really flying off the handle in this thread, and he's one of the closeted ones. I'm just having fun playing devil's advocate, really.

It really doesn't effect me that much, either way. All of the gay men in my life are out in most aspects of their lives.. not work necessarily, and I think one of my friends still hasn't told his parents... but yes, I live in a place where being in the closet is just stupid... there's more gay people here than pigeons and nobody bats an eyelash either way.
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exactly!! you live in a place like that, not everyone else does.

the point is, it doesn't help whatsoever to sit there on your motorcycle and start bashing others who are struggling with a decision that you yourself and others have had to deal with at some point in their lives. some can deal with that choice quickly and adapt easily and other struggle for their entire lives and some believe that the ignorance of others is bliss. if someone is happy and living a full, rich life in the closet, who's place is it to try to destroy that or make them feel like a lesser of a person? not yours...
 
Soilwork said:
really.

wow.

not a single homophobic joke in ten years, and they all respect people but you still can't come out to them.

interesting.

ok.. I'm done.
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what the fuck am I supposed to do? just walk into the office one day and scream "I'm gay!!"?

Soil, all you are doing is trying to make others feel like shit or lesser than you for not being out. Like I said before, you aren't the homo spokesperson!

If someone was to ask me if I'm gay, then I'll tell them, but I am not going to go out and tell everyone the details of my personal life.
 
chilly_willy said:
Rockercub and Soilwork,
you two have made it abundantly clear that you have to be gay your way or the highway. fuck that.
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This is exactly the overreacting that I’m talking about. I have never once said it’s my way or the highway. What power do you think I have anyways? The ability to revoke your gay license? All I’m doing is expressing my personal opinion – there is no “highway.” And all the animosity you’re showing is coming from your own insecurities.

chilly_willy said:
As long as when asked I'm not denying it, who am I being dishonest to?.
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There’s a big difference between not denying it and admitting it.

chilly_willy said:
do you smell that? take a big wiff...
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Um, that’s your intelligent reply?

chilly_willy said:
no one is saying that homosexuality should be a personal and private thing, rather that it is one's choice and one's right to make it so.
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That may not be what you’re saying, but that’s what ummagumma is saying. All I’m saying is that you rarely hear straight people going around saying, “Who I sleep with is nobody else’s business.” They talk freely about their boyfriends, their girlfriends, their husbands, their wives, etc. Why shouldn’t gays?

And once again, I never said anybody didn’t have the right to stay in the closet, just that it bothers me (under certain circumstances).

RenaissanceMan said:
but who you choose to love or have sex with hardly has anything to do with who you are as a person.
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I wish that were true, but unfortunately, you can’t separate who you are from how you’re perceived by society. This whole thread illustrates that point. Every single one of us should feel totally free to go into a work or school environment and talk about our love life with the same freedom that straight people do, but we don’t.


RenaissanceMan said:
And from the look of it we have a lot of people here who like to look down on others who "aren't as strong" and making the "wrong decisions" in the life these "people on the other side of the internet" don't know or understand.
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Well, let me apologize if I made you feel like I was looking down on you. I’m really not. I totally understand how difficult it is to come out, but I do think that coming out is the “right decision” in most cases, and I would ultimately encourage you to work towards that. It currently sounds like you’re not in a financial position to come out to your family, but I don’t know why you would hold onto friends who you think would look upon you as “nasty” if you told them you were gay. How about making some new friends? Does your school have any sort of gay support group?

chilly_willy said:
If someone was to ask me if I'm gay, then I'll tell them, but I am not going to go out and tell everyone the details of my personal life.
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You don’t have to shout it to the world to be out of the closet. Just don’t hide anything. I certainly didn’t announce it at work, but I showed up to company events with my husband and I kept a picture of him on my desk. It was fairly obvious.

And with that, I’m out of this one as well. This dead horse is beaten to a pulp.
 
I have some friends and acquaintances who are highly closted. It doesn't bother me. I respect it, because I respect them. In most cases, there are very legitimate reason for these men to be closeted (job, high profile, and other compelling reasons). In another case, it's just a personal preference of his; and in yet another, there's no real reason for it--he's just a bit neurotic and a bit self-absorbed as if the whole world will stop if it finds out he's gay. I kid him about it and he even laughs at himself, but that's the way he is.

People who lie, cheat, are mean and selfish bother me. People who beat women and children bother and offend me. Guys who wish to remain closeted don't bother me. I can't think of anything that's more their business and less of mine, when push comes to shove.
 
chilly_willy said:
If someone was to ask me if I'm gay, then I'll tell them, but I am not going to go out and tell everyone the details of my personal life.
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you mean to tell me that in ten years of working there... no one has asked you what you did on the weekend? Or for Christmas? You never had the chance to say "my boyfriend and I went to the beach"?

ok.
 
I am certainly not offended, I just wish they could experience the freedom and joy of being out. I would never try and talk anyone into coming out, it's just too personnel and the outcome might be traumatic for some. However I often sing the prases of being out to a lot of my closeted friends in the hope they might see the light
 
Soilwork said:
you mean to tell me that in ten years of working there... no one has asked you what you did on the weekend? Or for Christmas? You never had the chance to say "my boyfriend and I went to the beach"?

ok.
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well being that the know i don't celebrate christmas, that never comes up... and being that I work the weekend shift for the most part, that never comes up as well. and yes there have been a few occaisions where i have been asked a question and yes, i did mention my husband.
 
you say we need each other's support, and I get that the closeted guys need is "Out and loud" people to fight for our rights, but what do I need from some guy who hides away and reaps the benefits without bringing anything to the table?

What we need is more people on the front lines.. not more people in the fox hole hoping that we win
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I am curious how many of you with this mind set are willing to suit up and go off to Iraq. Pulling out of the war now would be akin to admitting defeat. Joining the front lines is to coming out. Supporting our troops but staying home...all those in the closet. All this "Intelligence" your getting, good and bad, well we've all gotta live with the choices we make from it.
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if you don't or refuse to see anything from that thought then your world is more perfect than mine...haha *sigh* getting caught up in all these shades of grey.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A bunch of people who end up with holes in them aint gonna be helping anybody for long. Not everyone is brave enough to make that sacrifice, but for those that are I recognize it and I know its not much but you have my thanks.
 
kinda apples and oranges, clorox.. there are some wars that we don't think should have been started in the first place and some that we don't think we'll ever win.

for instance, and I don't want to turn this into a debate on the validity of the "war"... but while I think that gays and lesbians should fight for equality, I'm not convinced that bombing a third world nation back into the stone age is really something we should be doing..
 
And, furthermore, with the possible exception of certain conversative areas, coming out is not as dangerous to your well-being as fighting in a war. If you literally think that coming out will result in holes in your person, by all means, stay in the closet. But comparing a nasty look from a co-worker to a car-bomb explosion would be silly.
 
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