For OUT guys: Are you bothered or offended by closet cases?

[clorox]

I never said one way or the other how I felt about the issue. I was just acknowledging that there is a grey area that people are refusing to see for what ever reason. Half the US is small towns and country, look at all the red next time there is an election. Those nasty looks and comments are detrimental to ones self esteem, I'm of the mind set that a lot of young males flinging themselves from high places is due to what other people think about them. Its well and fine if you risk losing a little but to lose all support expecially in these conservative areas where family is very important it is not worth it. (not saying family is not valued elsewhere) It just comes down to what you can live without and what you can live with. It takes a certain amount of strength to stay in as well as come out, I don't think it should be discounted if you are doing it for the right reasons. I know that last conclusion will rub somebody wrong but people do make sacrifices living inside to maintain what they value. hmm that was clear as mud. I guess I'm meaning to say people who would other wise come out but want to keep other relationships alive should not be looked down upon so harshly, they are not living in fear of what may happen but do know what will. That still isn't coming across how I want it to but maybe you get what I'm attempting to say? That idea is about those who make a conscious decision where being scared is not a factor.

The statement I made about people having holes in them was meant literally and figuratively, alluding to a persons mental state, sorry I did not make that clearer.

I purposefully chose that war as opposed to one where everyone felt we should've fought. This war allows for all kinds of "intelligence" from both sides to be accounted for from the religious right to the liberal left. It is after all "intelligence" that leads people to make huge decisions. I admit I don't agree with bombing a country into the stone age either. I used this war more for the controversy surrounding us actually going then for what is or isn't being accomplished though I did need to leave the outcome open ended. Vietnam could not be used because we lost...

 

[Soilwork]

I came out in a rural Canadian Farming Village of 1500 people in 1987.

Fuck with me.

I get it that there are a lot of people who feel they can't come out because they would lose everything. I felt like that too.. to be honest, I did lose just about everything. Lost friends, lost family lost a lot.. and gained some self-respect that has turned me into the hard-ass, take-no-prisoners, in-yer-face dude that I am today.

Living life out loud and on my own terms has always been more important to me than the opinions of others.

And for that reason, I think, I've got the best friends a man could ever ask for.. the best boyfriend, job, life, goals and hopes and dreams. Coming out was a horrible experience and if I never did it, I'd be as miserable as that dude who told me that everybody loves him because he has a wife and a kid.

I don't necessarily look down on people who aren't out... I don't even know if what I feel is "pity" either.. that's such a harsh word. Hey if you wanna spend your life hiding... go ahead. I guess I'm softening in my stance this week. (Call it the "New Soilwork" brought on by that "everybody hates you" rant in that "Women in Gay Bars" thread last week.)

But I do know that hearing people say that in the freaking 21st century that they can't come out because other people wouldn't approve and that I in West Hollywood dont' understand that makes me wanna break femurs.

 

[Rockercub]

I was just acknowledging that there is a grey area that people are refusing to see for what ever reason. Half the US is small towns and country, look at all the red next time there is an election. Those nasty looks and comments are detrimental to ones self esteem, I'm of the mind set that a lot of young males flinging themselves from high places is due to what other people think about them.

Agreed, but at the same time, if everybody stays in the closet, then those attitudes will likely never change. And, personally, knowing that those people would give me a dirty look if they knew is just as bad as the actual dirty look itself, so for me at least, staying in the closet wouldn't really change any self-esteem issues. At least by coming out, you're sort of actively acknowledging to yourself that they're wrong. But if that's the sort of thing that would send someone else into suicidality, I wouldn't fault that person for staying in the closet.

 

[clorox]

But I do know that hearing people say that in the freaking 21st century that they can't come out because other people wouldn't approve and that I in West Hollywood dont' understand that makes me wanna break femurs.

I understand where your coming from.

at the same time, if everybody stays in the closet, then those attitudes will likely never change.

I see this too. I don't know who mentioned it but if everyone could change, not even 40, a handful of people things might be looking a lot better right now. People just need time to want/feel the need to change themselves first and the amount of time it takes varies from person to person.

 

[luminum]

I can't believe I missed this one either...where was I during the month of January...?

I'm not offended, just saddened by the fact that people still find themselves either unable to deal witht heir own sexuality or silenced by others.

No matter how bad the situation is, the right of every person is to live with dignity and respect concerning who they are. Having to hide that is rediculous and is a request that no person can ever give to another. So in the end, a lot of gay men wills ay that they just "can't" do it because of external reasons, but I believe that if you really want to live free and understand yourself better through all facets of your life, you'll find a way to get yourself to a place where you can be open about your sexuality (but not necessarily your sex life). If your boss is homophobic and you'll certainly be fired (no matter how illegal) then search for a different job. If your parents will cut your funding, wait or plan to make yourself a bit more independent before you tell them.

If people treat you poorly because of your sexuality, all that says is that those people were not people who cared about you and that you were wasting your time with them. You deserve better than people who can only half love you. So why not reveal something about yourself that should mean nothing different to others and find out who deserves your friendship and love?

In the end, coming out can sometimes means taking a plunge. You have to close your eyes, take a deep breath, and take the jump. It's sometimes terrifying and unsure, but in the end, knowing yourself and living without fear or anything to hide is one of the few joys in life that elude so many (gay or straight).

And to answer some question posted before, no, being open and out of the closet doesn't mean you have to run around screaming that you're gay. It's about living honestly. A poster asked if he said yes when anyone asked him, walked around holding hands with his boyfriend, etc. ets, would he be considered out or in the closet. He would be out of the closet. Being in the closet means that you are hiding your sexuality or lying about it. Being out means that your sexuality is what it is and free to know about as much as any straight person's is.

The declaration of being gay is just a convenient means of ensuring that others no longer assume you are straight, which is common in such a prevalently straight society.

 

[RicanDAB]

Being in the closet means that you are hiding your sexuality or lying about it. Being out means that your sexuality is what it is and free to know about as much as any straight person's is. The declaration of being gay is just a convenient means of ensuring that others no longer assume you are straight, which is common in such a prevalently straight society.

Exactly

In the above poll I voted "Depends" ... Not bothered generally because I believe people should come out when they feel comfortable doing so and only when they are ready to face the realities of the acceptance or rejections they will get. Not everyone is ready at the same time and no one should be forced to come out by others.

However, my opinion differs when that person is someone I choose to be involved with. I once dated a guy who was in the closet more than I was and he was in essence pulling me back in, which made me feel as if all my work towards coming out was for nothing --- a bad thing. Although I will not insist that they come out, I will continue to respect their closeted status but would not be comfortable continuing in the relationship.

 

[JOHN B]

I hate to say this, but, yea---it does bother me to see grown adults who decide to remain in the closet. I know it's an individual choice, but I also believe in people being themselves instead of putting on a false persona in order to be accepted. As I said before in another thread, people who do that will either grow to hate the person they are hiding, or grow to hate the "fake" person they feel they have to maintain in order to continue to be accepted. Either way, it can only lead to self loathing eventually.
If you are a grown adult who is not dependent on anyone else (parents, relatives) financially (living under their roof, borrowing money) then there is no real good reason to be in the closet. Plus remaining in the closet only perpetuates the myth that being gay is "bad".

 

[M4P]

I'm not necessarily offended but I am troubled by guys who are obviously gay but pretend to be everything but. If you aren't able to admit to the world who you are please don't pretend to be something you're not

 

[Soilwork]

I've re-read this ancient thread. Kahil and I (he was using the name chilly_willy that week) sure got into it.

I stil feel the same.

I'm not offended by people who aren't out because they haven't accepted being gay yet. Like I said back then and sitll say now.. I didnt' come out until I was 19 so I can't really throw stones.

I AM, however, not offended so much as angered by the losers who have wives and kids and carry on publicly as straight but - like a few members here - go have lots and lots of sex in covert ways, come here to brag about it and then go back home to vote Republican, hand out homophobic judgements and act like the world owes them the lattitude to do as they please no matter how much others are hurt.

 

[Soilwork]

I still have to laugh, too, at how many closeted men voted "No, I'm not."

If your'e in the closet, you're not supposed to answer the question... nobody asked you. Of COURSE your'e not offended... why would you be?

 

[M4P]

I AM, however, not offended so much as angered by the losers who have wives and kids and carry on publicly as straight but - like a few members here - go have lots and lots of sex in covert ways, come here to brag about it and then go back home to vote Republican, hand out homophobic judgements and act like the world owes them the lattitude to do as they please no matter how much others are hurt.

You made a great point here SW. I used to work with a guy who had the wife, two daughters, mini-van and a position with his church and kept a "buddy" downtown. He wanted to be my friend, and bring the "buddy" to our house. No way! Forget it! His life was a total lie and I wanted no part of it and told him so.

 

[Soilwork]

Maybe because (and I may as well be blunt) I'm a rather high-profile member here....

I get LOTS of PMs from married guys. They go on and on about how hot I am (which I'm not even that hot...) and how they think about me when they're fucking their wives or blah blah blah... they don't really get it when I tell them to get bent.

I hear WAY to often "well, I bi.." as if that's a reason to be deceitful. I hear "What my wife doesn't know won't hurt her" like that's ok. I hear "you don't understand what it's like" as if I was born wearing a "Glad to be gay" t-shirt.

I swear... some people's kids.

 

[darkroyal]

Why do married men hit on you though?

Sorta creepy more than complimentary...glad you tell them where to go. That's our Jasunator.

 

[pinest]

It's a process that can't be rushed.Each person has a different set of circumstances that they need to deal with.Some people come from very liberal backgrounds,while others have to deal with possible real fear,depending on where they live.It was easy for me because i have a loving family and non judgemental friends and workmates.Others aren't that lucky.You'll know when the time is right for you.No matter if your 16 or 60.Your time will come and it'll be a great cause for celebration.

 

[Martkell2007]

Why would anyone be offended by something that doesn't have anything to do with them?

 

[Rick18]

I'm not offended by people who live in the closet, but I think it's ridiculous that some guys don't come out even when they have plenty of gay friends and support just because they don't feel like it. Only way it affects me is that I won't date a closeted guy.

 

[deadslug]

never had the time to read every comment, but to sum up wot i've read, fair enuf with soil saying it only bothers him if the guys are married with kids, but in the end who are we to judge? i hate the openly-gay-lets-tell-everyone that we will out them if they don't admit it, to hell with a bi guy, he's not out, but he ain't in, regardless if he has told everyone he's bi!
Sorry but gay guys will kick off about any homophobia towards them, they've been through pain etc and think everyone who messes with guys should come out, to experience the freedoom they now have (no matter what the cost)
Gay guys are some of the most judgemental eejits i have ever met, so the answer to ur question is no i don't have a problem with a guy that's so in the closet his address ends with narnia!

 

[JOHN B]

Why would anyone be offended by something that doesn't have anything to do with them?

Because it DOES have something to do with ME/US. AS I said before, hiding perpetuates "bad" or "wrong". We don't need to loath ourselves when so many others (though it is getting less over time) already look down on us. If you are not living at home, are over 18, and are not financially dependent on others (family, etc...) then you need to build up the courage and BE YOURSELF! The only way to gain acceptance so that younger generations don't have to go thru this dilemma is to make everyone realize that we are everywhere, and JUST as good and equal as THEY are.

 

[nihilis]

Why would anyone be offended by something that doesn't have anything to do with them?

Another question: why would someone in the closet care what out people think of his/her situation? If one's actions are so defined by what others around them think, that person is going to have a lot more problems than deciding whether or not to tell people (s)he's gay. Similarly, if someone's offended by something that's not really affecting their life (like Martkell2007 said), then maybe that person isn't someone to be friends (or whatever) with anyway; at least not for me.

 

[Blacksheep]

It depends what you mean by closeted. I have only told a limited number of people as there really is little to tell (and I'm only close to about five people). If I found a man I still probably wouldn't bother telling most of my family, it has more to do with my relationship with them rather than my willingness to accept being in a homosexual relationship.
I don't think I'd ever come out at work. I really cannot see the point. I wouldn't pretend I was straight, I just wouldn't bother jumping up and down about the fact I had a male partner.
I understand that the easiest way to 'normalise' something in society is to show just how common it is, but to me my sexual habits aren't something I really feel like commenting on with people I hardly know. It has nothing to do with a lack of pride or comfort in my being gay/bi, instead it has more to do with decorum. I hate hearing any guy prattle on about their love life/sex life (unless they have a problem with it that can be discussed and helped) so I'm not going to be one to inflict mine on everyone else.