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Former leaders of "ex-gay" ministry apologize

JDS I can't understand what you're saying.

It seems like you're saying something along the lines of "I should support Paul Bernardo because I'm Canadian and so is he."

If someone has done something so dispicable as what they did... does that mean we have to just shrug it off and let by-gones be by-gones?
 
So... ok... you're on their side saying that we shouldn't be so hard on them or that they suck and we're right to attack them?
 
That's the cool thing about not being a Christian.

I don't have to forgive anyone who doesn't deserve it.

Makes y'all tingly inside.
 
I think it's great that they apologized. And I do accept their apology. Most gay people have said and done homophobic things when they were hiding in the closet. Perhaps not to the extent that these guys did, but now they are trying to correct their sin- fantastic. Put as much effort into helping as you once put into hurting gays and I think it's fair.
 
I accept it, too. Look at all the pain in his face when he describes the horrible way he was treated. It sounds cult-like. No wonder it's hard for people to leave Exodus and/or their church.

If anything, the gay community should have a special outreach to these people and tell them it's OK--we'll accept them with open arms.
 
This offers quite the opportunity to the gay community, if we handle it right, to show the world that we're good people. I agree with Lube here, the people who come out of these programs have been put through - and put themselves through - a lot of suffering. I think that having a former leader of one of these ex-gay ministries now being involved in a new program to help people accept their sexuality would be a huge blow to their legitimacy.

As for what they did during their involvement in the ex-gay ministry, I do agree that it did some horrible things to a lot of people, and we can't just forget that. Those things can't just be undone, the mental health issues won't magically go away, the people who committed suicide can't be revived, but we should try to get something positive out of this so we can move forward.
 
I don't agree or support what alan chambers is doing.

But, I think he was treated poorly by his own kind. I think, other gay men projected their own insecurity onto him and he is what he is now because of something we as a whole did to him. I don't really view him as an offender, but a sad victim.

I think he started out idealizing gay people and wanting to find real affection but all he did was run into a bunch of negative whining and complaining. I mean, look at all yourselves here! It's covered up in a veil of just kidding around or 'trying to find yourself' but all the negativity is enough to make the gayest man want to go straight. Straight people just aren't like that. And before you make some non-clever comment about 'being negative about being negative' just let it sink in.

It's just something to consider. You have to really take a look at yourself, and ask yourself if you truly are more righteous than Mr. Chambers.
 
JDS I agree with you...mostly.

But we don't really need to 'stand up and fight.'

We just have to stop all the slow suicide self-loathing bullshit really. Not something to overconsempate with pride parades or getting angry and 'active.' It's more of an internal struggle.
 
ravenstar said:
Im afraid the pain in his face is nothing compared to the men and women who killed themselves because of these programs. They can keep their guilt until the end of time. I hope it gnaws at them for the rest of their lives.
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You don't believe in forgiveness?

Sure, hate them while they're doing the wrong thing, but when they come to their senses, help them so they'll help others.

I think it took bravery on his part to finally admit he was wrong.
 
slnattak said:
I don't agree or support what alan chambers is doing.

But, I think he was treated poorly by his own kind. I think, other gay men projected their own insecurity onto him and he is what he is now because of something we as a whole did to him. I don't really view him as an offender, but a sad victim.

I think he started out idealizing gay people and wanting to find real affection but all he did was run into a bunch of negative whining and complaining. I mean, look at all yourselves here! It's covered up in a veil of just kidding around or 'trying to find yourself' but all the negativity is enough to make the gayest man want to go straight. Straight people just aren't like that. And before you make some non-clever comment about 'being negative about being negative' just let it sink in.

It's just something to consider. You have to really take a look at yourself, and ask yourself if you truly are more righteous than Mr. Chambers.
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Are you saying that having a group of people treat you poorly is an excuse to treat them poorly in return?

Are you saying gay people & culture is fucked up, so he wants to be straight and convert us all? I don't buy that as victimization.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you.
 
Question: How long has the 'ex-gay' movement been around?

I thought it was only a very recent phenomenon, but it looks like I'm wrong.

:(
 
For all of you who still can't find it in your hearts to forgive Michael Bussee and the others, I'd like you to know that Michael has been an anti-ex-gay activist since the 1980's. He's mortified by the lives he destroyed with his misguided past, and I believe he'd give his own life if he could just bring one of them back. Try to remember that these people formed their twisted views because of indoctrination that is still insidious today. . . if not so bad as in the 1950s, 60s or 70s.

Since 1979 he's traveled the same path as the rest of us, losing friends and the love of his life to AIDS, being diagnosed HIV+ himself, and generally fighting the good "activist" fight. He's an honest, hard working and very loving man who I am proud to call "friend."

He's the single strongest voice today in fighting Exodus and the other "ex-gay ministries." He's fighting valiantly to counter the harm done in recent years by Exodus in more than one African nation besides just here at home.

He's paid his debt to gay society and continues to do so, while never having to be asked. I have forgiven and have grown to love him.

Peace.
 
It's an incredible asset to the gay community to have people come out of ex-gay ministries and testify their failure. It's doubly an asset for us to have former leaders of the said ministries. For real, ex-gay ministries' credibility takes a plunge whenever people like this speak out... or come out I suppose.
 
LonelyInVenice said:
He's the single strongest voice today in fighting Exodus and the other "ex-gay ministries." He's fighting valiantly to counter the harm done in recent years by Exodus in more than one African nation besides just here at home.
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Well ain't that sweet? Frankenstein tries to stop his own monster.

If he's the single strongest voice fighting Exodus, he's doing a piss poor job. They're still there and still very politically powerful. Kids are still forced into the camps he helped make.
 
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