Fred Phelps / Phelps Family / Westboro Baptist [mega-merged]

[mikey3000]

Re: Picketing the Funerals of Dead Children!!?? Really Westboro Baptist Church? Realty??!!

How about this, we let the WBC show up and protest at all the funerals, but we pass out loaded guns to all the mourners first. everyone's rights are satisfied.

 

[zoltanspawn]

Re: Picketing the Funerals of Dead Children!!?? Really Westboro Baptist Church? Realty??!!

^I think a person has to have a moral compass to understand it, Mikey.

Some of the other JUBbers apparently don't have that moral compass; elsewise, they wouldn't even have to ask the question, would they?

Or, lacking a "moral compass" people may merely supply explanations for their ideas.

 

[Kulindahr]

Re: Westboro Scum to Protest in Newtown.

not sure if this has been shared yet but

there is a way to constructively and legally stop the madness

Go Aggies !!





http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/06/texas-am-students_n_1653002.html

Some judge somewhere would probably find something illegal about it.

It works for certain when the "wall" is entirely on private property, because the owners are the ones who decide.

That's in a way better than the one where people came and took every parking spot within a huge distance from the funeral, leaving Westboro nowhere to go.

 

[zoltanspawn]

Re: Picketing the Funerals of Dead Children!!?? Really Westboro Baptist Church? Realty??!!

^Asking for reasons is merely rational.

It's not "self-evident" to many that extremely offensive speech should be prohibited.

 

[Just_Believe18]

Re: Picketing the Funerals of Dead Children!!?? Really Westboro Baptist Church? Realty??!!

I did indeed address your point about Islam.

You're pushing your own ideas of democracy and equality for women onto a people that doesn't really want it.

Have you ever considered the Islamic woman's point of view? They are generally horrified by the fact that, in Western societies, a woman is left to fend for herself. They see this as cruelty beyond words.

When they meet an unmarried Western woman, they feel sorry for you. "Oh, you poor thing, you have nobody to take care of you," the thinking goes. Normally, they'll crowd around a Western woman in order to protect her.

Who are you to interfere with this?

Sir, I believe you're trying to push your own Western ideals onto other people. Don't you think, in a way, that that reflects Western bullying? If--and when--they decide to "reform", they'll do it at their own speed, thank you very much.

No, you are misinterpreting the whole point I am saying about Freedom of Speech. This has nothing to do with Islam itself. I am not lobbying a criticism or moral superiority over how Muslims believe. Here is a different example to make the same point:

Take Russia and what happened to the punk rock band Pussy Riot. Pussy Riot expressed their freedom of speech by making a public criticism of Vladimir Putin's dictatorship rule over the Russian government and its people. As punishment, "common sense" was used against them by charging all three women with, I kid you not, "hooliganism" motivated by "religious hatred and hostility." The Russian Orthodox Church, which has a lot of say in Russia's "common sense," accused Pussy Riot's political demonstration as blasphemy and it was exploited by Putin's government to put them on trial and send them to prison.

So there you have an explicit and modern example of what happens to citizens who are not protected by free speech from their despotic governments and dictators. Terms like "hooliganism, religious blasphemy, undermining the social order" can be used to interrogate, prosecute, and imprison citizens without that freedom of expression.

You can review and read an extensive list of published articles as the event unfolded below:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/pussy-riot/

 

[zoltanspawn]

Re: Picketing the Funerals of Dead Children!!?? Really Westboro Baptist Church? Realty??!!

Do you want me to defend my position from a "legal" standpoint?

Or do you want me to defend my position from an "ethical" standpoint?

As you have not yet defended your position other than to say "it's common sense" I'm interested in either.

 

[JayHawk]

Re: Westboro Scum to Protest in Newtown.

The best was when the fucking dirt bags stayed over night in a motel and the towns folks all had breakdowns around the car... then when they finally got all the cars moved the Phelps' car was sitting on empty tires.... wouldn't ya just know it the tow truck was busy for several hours.... during the funeral the scum planned to protest.

 

[Chip12414]

Re: Westboro Scum to Protest in Newtown.

Baptist Minister Reverend Mike Huckabee is making nearly identical claims with respect to the Newton school killings as is the Westboro Baptist Church, only Huckabee is saying it on national TV and not on-site.

Huckabee Says the Connecticut school massacre occurred because we ‘Removed God From Our Schools’.

Really? Is that how his God works?

 

[eastofeden]

Re: Picketing the Funerals of Dead Children!!?? Really Westboro Baptist Church? Realty??!!

No, you are misinterpreting the whole point I am saying about Freedom of Speech. This has nothing to do with Islam itself. I am not lobbying a criticism or moral superiority over how Muslims believe. Here is a different example to make the same point:

Take Russia and what happened to the punk rock band Pussy Riot. Pussy Riot expressed their freedom of speech by making a public criticism of Vladimir Putin's dictatorship rule over the Russian government and its people. As punishment, "common sense" was used against them by charging all three women with, I kid you not, "hooliganism" motivated by "religious hatred and hostility." The Russian Orthodox Church, which has a lot of say in Russia's "common sense," accused Pussy Riot's political demonstration as blasphemy and it was exploited by Putin's government to put them on trial and send them to prison.

So there you have an explicit and modern example of what happens to citizens who are not protected by free speech from their despotic governments and dictators. Terms like "hooliganism, religious blasphemy, undermining the social order" can be used to interrogate, prosecute, and imprison citizens without that freedom of expression.

You can review and read an extensive list of published articles as the event unfolded below:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/pussy-riot/

ITA

Denying free speech to one group is a Pandora's Box and it should never be opened. You have potentially denied it to so many more by setting a precedent.

Like I tell my anti choice friends. If you allow the government to tell you what you cannot do with your body...you have set a precedent for your worst nightmare. Think China.

Attitudes shift over time and with overpopulation on the table for the future...imagine the government telling you that you may only have one child...all others will be aborted. They say "but that is different". Sorry...no it isn't. Giving the government control of your body is so fucking stupid. It is a Pandora's Box...much like free speech.

 

[Joshua_me]

Re: Westboro Scum to Protest in Newtown.

meh.

As far as I'm concerned, paying them no mind is the best revenge.

"Fags are burning in Hell" "God love AIDS" "Soldiers Are Doomed".

Yeah, whatever...

Their "shock value" has long since died away, and they look like the ignorant, inbred idiots that they are...

They are not worth my time, and they are not worth yours, either. Turn the anger that you may feel toward them into pity. That is about the only thing they deserve.

 

[T-Rexx]

Re: Westboro Scum to Protest in Newtown.

I'm not sure why everyone obsesses over the Westboro Baptist Church.

They're a bunch of publicity hounds willing to say anything outrageous that might attract attention to themselves. So, of course, they say the most outrageous thing they can think of. Only, they have only one outrageous thing to say. One. Their playbook has only one play in it, and that is all they've been calling for years. They are absolutely predictable. They have nothing to say, and they just keep repeating that nothing over and over and over again.

 

[Constantine]

Re: Westboro Scum to Protest in Newtown.

I heard the hackers of Anonymous provided the names, numbers, and emails of all the members of WBC so the public could contact them personally and let them know what they think of their planned protest.

 

[gsdx]

Re: Picketing the Funerals of Dead Children!!?? Really Westboro Baptist Church? Realty??!!

It's not "self-evident" to many that extremely offensive speech should be prohibited.

Sorry, my friend, but you are confusing 'offensive speech' with 'harmful speech'. The crap that Phelps puts out doesn't offend me, and it doesn't necessarily offend the people (mourners) to whom it is aimed. It is, however, extremely harmful. It is taking people at one of the worst and traumatic moments of their lives and making it even worse and more traumatic. They are hating people who are most certainly much more Christian than they are. It is rubbing salt into their wounds. It is pouring gasoline on them and holding a lighted match. And all the time they're doing it, they're saying, "Nya Nya! You can't do SHIT to stop me! And if you try, I'll sue your ass for every penny you own!" It is preaching a vengeful god who doesn't even punish the sinners, but punishes innocent people for the sins of others.

That is not 'free speech'. They only hide behind it. That is hatred put into words. And what's even worse is that they do it for money. They are not a church. They are a business, and they're in it for profit.

The United States has gone to war to protect innocent people from such atrocities and abuse, yet it is allowed within its own borders simply because it is Phelps' right to do so.

Nobody should have that right.

 

[White Eagle]

Re: Westboro Scum to Protest in Newtown.

That's no excuse for emotional assault.

Jack's link to wikipedia on Fred Phelps shows this. Maybe they will be able to keep them away from the funeral and/or arrest them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Phelps

--snip --

In response to Phelps' protests at military funerals, President George W. Bush signed the Respect for America's Fallen Heroes Act into law in May 2006,[1] and, in April 2007, Kansas governor Kathleen Sebelius signed into law a bill establishing a 150-foot no-picketing buffer zone around funerals.[2]

 

[Kabluey]

Re: Picketing the Funerals of Dead Children!!?? Really Westboro Baptist Church? Realty??!!

Seems to be a strangely ineffective strategy for building a profile.
The idea of protesting other peoples' funerals seems to only to appeal to the sensibilities of people within the church. They act as a cult, makes it hard to understand why they want the attention of the outside world.

 

[Kabluey]

Re: Picketing the Funerals of Dead Children!!?? Really Westboro Baptist Church? Realty??!!

Laws in the UK around hate speech are relatively recent, so their influence is not necessarily felt throughout its former dominions.
Many of those dominions do have laws against defamation, which would not alone prevent the protests by the WBC.
Does the US have sedition laws?

 

[mikey3000]

Re: Picketing the Funerals of Dead Children!!?? Really Westboro Baptist Church? Realty??!!

No, you are misinterpreting the whole point I am saying about Freedom of Speech. This has nothing to do with Islam itself. I am not lobbying a criticism or moral superiority over how Muslims believe. Here is a different example to make the same point:

Take Russia and what happened to the punk rock band Pussy Riot. Pussy Riot expressed their freedom of speech by making a public criticism of Vladimir Putin's dictatorship rule over the Russian government and its people. As punishment, "common sense" was used against them by charging all three women with, I kid you not, "hooliganism" motivated by "religious hatred and hostility." The Russian Orthodox Church, which has a lot of say in Russia's "common sense," accused Pussy Riot's political demonstration as blasphemy and it was exploited by Putin's government to put them on trial and send them to prison.

So there you have an explicit and modern example of what happens to citizens who are not protected by free speech from their despotic governments and dictators. Terms like "hooliganism, religious blasphemy, undermining the social order" can be used to interrogate, prosecute, and imprison citizens without that freedom of expression.

You can review and read an extensive list of published articles as the event unfolded below:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/pussy-riot/

Couple things wrong here:

Pussy riot is a Russian band, from Russia. Russia doesn't have "freedon of speech". You are imposing your American ideals on a foreigners. Again.

Secondly, Pussy riot chose an ongoing religious service, on private ground, to voice and smash their message home. That was intruding on the parishoners new priviledges of religious worship. That is punishable by Russian law and so be it.

 

[star-warrior]

Re: Picketing the Funerals of Dead Children!!?? Really Westboro Baptist Church? Realty??!!

Move to remove Tax Exemption status from the WBC

http://www.bizjournals.com/kansasci...2/groups-aim-to-strip-tax-exemption-from.html

Two circulating petitions aim to strip away the tax-exempt status of Topeka's Westboro Baptist Church by officially labeling it as a hate group, Fox4 reports.

The move was made after Westboro church members said they would protest a Newton, Conn. vigil held for the victims of the recent elementary school shooting. It was prompted by the hacktivist group "Anonymous," which also hacked the church's website and released personal information about church members.

The petitions need just more than 16,000 signatures before the White House will review them, the report says. On Monday, the petition had 10,000 signatures.

 

[gsdx]

Re: Picketing the Funerals of Dead Children!!?? Really Westboro Baptist Church? Realty??!!

Move to remove Tax Exemption status from the WBC

One petition has 41,424 signatures: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pe...xempt-status-westboro-baptist-church/YrKbHYtV
The other has 179,473: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pe...gov&utm_medium=shorturl&utm_campaign=shorturl

 

[zoltanspawn]

Re: Picketing the Funerals of Dead Children!!?? Really Westboro Baptist Church? Realty??!!

Sorry, my friend, but you are confusing 'offensive speech' with 'harmful speech'. The crap that Phelps puts out doesn't offend me, and it doesn't necessarily offend the people (mourners) to whom it is aimed. It is, however, extremely harmful. It is taking people at one of the worst and traumatic moments of their lives and making it even worse and more traumatic. They are hating people who are most certainly much more Christian than they are. It is rubbing salt into their wounds. It is pouring gasoline on them and holding a lighted match. And all the time they're doing it, they're saying, "Nya Nya! You can't do SHIT to stop me! And if you try, I'll sue your ass for every penny you own!" It is preaching a vengeful god who doesn't even punish the sinners, but punishes innocent people for the sins of others.

That is not 'free speech'. They only hide behind it. That is hatred put into words. And what's even worse is that they do it for money. They are not a church. They are a business, and they're in it for profit.

The United States has gone to war to protect innocent people from such atrocities and abuse, yet it is allowed within its own borders simply because it is Phelps' right to do so.

Nobody should have that right.

I believe that what is right and good for one nation is not right and good for another. There are places in the world where I strongly support prohibitions on free speech.

The United States isn't one of those places.

As grotesque as the Phelps are, I support their right to speech, even at a distance to funerals. Many communities have enacted laws establishing a perimeter the Phelps can't cross when picketing. If it was up to me, I would keep them one mile away. To me, this nullifies any harm their speech might cause.