Fred Phelps / Phelps Family / Westboro Baptist [mega-merged]

[MoufOfKhaos]

Re: Picketing the Funerals of Dead Children!!?? Really Westboro Baptist Church? Realty??!!

I have a Joan of Arc complex you wouldn't believe.

It would take me very little to avenge the oppressed--if you know what I mean.

Join Anon. Barring that, protest their protest in deed or in silence.

 

[MassRuss]

Re: Westboro Scum to Protest in Newtown.

I wonder what an IRS examination of their tax exempt status would reveal.

One of the better ideas I've read today, along with placing them on the "No Fly List"

 

[Rolyo85]

Re: Westboro Scum to Protest in Newtown.

as jack and mister majestic have suggested

and i concur

u need to get out (of your vacuum) more often

i agree with u it sucks - everyone agrees it sucks

its public property

it sucks

but the concept of freedom of speech trumps it

Feel free to agree with whoever. That is certainly your prerogative. And if the concept of freedom of speech trumps protection from abuse when people are at their most vulnerable, then the concept of freedom of speech is deeply flawed and need to be reexamined.

 

[Just_Believe18]

Re: Picketing the Funerals of Dead Children!!?? Really Westboro Baptist Church? Realty??!!

I just flat out don't agree with you.

Let's take the idea of gun laws. I recently became interested in retiring to Canada, so I spent some time reading its laws. In the area of gun control, one must have a license to carry a hand-gun; those licenses are difficult to obtain.

By contrast, owning a rifle is easy.

Think about it, Just-Believe. Their laws make sense. One would own a rifle to hunt; you normally can only load it once. By contrast, handguns are usually used against people. It makes sense to me to severely restrict a man's right to own one. Of course, semi-automatic rifles are illegal in Canada for obvious reasons.

Now let's move on to Freedom of Speech. I've had trouble with that idea since the 1970s, because every time, somebody uses Freedom of Speech for nefarious purposes. It always seems to defend the bad guy, not the good guys.

About the Westboro Church? Canada threw their skank-munching asses out. Common sense! Why would you want a bunch of trouble-makers in your country?

No, Just-Believe; I don't agree with you. In fact, I think you've allowed yoursef become brainwashed by the same idealism that has brought our country to its knees.

And about Islam? You're pushing your own ideals onto a people.

We can't have a serious discussion here if you're going to accuse me of being "brainwashed." I have my own objective, rational thoughts that I can support with legitimate information.

The Freedom of Speech is a unique principle that the U.S. Constitution stands for. It is one of our greatest protections against the government and the tyranny of the majority. You can claim it only protects the "bad guy," but there is a long history of how the freedom of speech has protected progress and pushed forward civil rights and our pursuit for equality. You can disagree all you want, but it is the law of the land and it protects you just as much as it protects me or the Westboro Baptist Church.

How would you define "trouble-makers?" What authority would you have to remove them from your country? Under what legal authority would you expel American citizens, and to where?

You didn't accurately address my point on Islam. In the case of cultural expression of Islam in a country like Saudi Arabia, it is common sense for the people there to believe that a woman should not drive, nor vote. Therefore, be careful when you invoke "common sense" as the authority of all that is appropriate and fair; as American common sense is different than Canadian common sense (as you illustrated in your first point), or Pakistani common sense. When you base "common sense" on the application of law, we would have never ended slavery because half of the nation still agreed on the "common sense" that slavery was a necessary and moral application to the U.S. economy. It took the ideal that "All men are created equal" to transcend beyond common sense.

That is why we are a representative Republic, not a populist Democracy.

 

[Just_Believe18]

Re: Westboro Scum to Protest in Newtown.

^ Nope, it's not flawed. It is our 1st, and most important Amendment in the U.S. Constitution. It is perhaps one of the greatest and most powerful laws ever created to protect the freedoms and liberties of the American people in a historical world where governments have always sought to subjugate and oppress the speech and expression of its people to protect its interests and "moral fortitude."

You are entitled to your opinion and to express your frustrations of emotions and feelings over a raw subject as this. However, there have been generations of scholars, soldiers, educators, lawyers, presidents, judges, and historians that have defended and sworn to the absolute necessity of the 1st Amendment.

 

[chance1]

Re: Westboro Scum to Protest in Newtown.

there is no reasonable alternative

as the basis by which "someone" - and who might that be

could determine which speech is appropriate and which isn't

would be unmanageable and fraught with danger

 

[palbert]

Re: Westboro Scum to Protest in Newtown.

there is no reasonable alternative

as the basis by which "someone" - and who might that be

could determine which speech is appropriate and which isn't

would be unmanageable and fraught with danger

Their Constitutional right to free speech does not require it to be in a particularly painful location. One has the right to speak. The Constitution says no more.

 

[Rolyo85]

Re: Westboro Scum to Protest in Newtown.

I would say that when you are having a funeral, YOU are the one who should be the absolute authority on what's allowed and what isn't on the funeral YOU are having.

 

[White Eagle]

Re: Westboro Scum to Protest in Newtown.

These ignorant sons of bitches need to be shut up forever. However or whatever it takes to do it. There is no place for this kind of vile to be compared to any thing that normal people strive to live in this world.

 

[MoufOfKhaos]

Re: Picketing the Funerals of Dead Children!!?? Really Westboro Baptist Church? Realty??!!

To come to think of it, Mouf, this is a bad idea. Let's back up a moment, shall we?

You asked,"Why should I be concerned?" Mouf, that's an easy attitude to take when it's somebody else. But think of this: what if some nutcracker shot your Momma, and these people stood outside her funeral, laughing and mocking because she gave birth to a "faggot"? Why, we'd have to put you in a rubber room.

No no no no no. No. NO. NO.

My point was not that you can't be concerned about these obvious trolls, to be outraged, to be pissed at what they are doing. My point is that you are feeding into what they want from you, and what they hope to achieve. This is why I drew my second post the way I did - you are only helping them by screaming at the rub in the wound. Voicing your compassion is all well and good, but when you're dealing with people that are habitually heartless, you're taking an exercise in futility. It'd be like me going to yell at some KKK members, except in that extreme case i'd have an actual fight on my hands.

BTW, if someone shot my mom and WBC came to the funeral because she birthed a faggot, my father would be facing a murder charge, because he would snatch Fred himself up and choke him til the mans' head popped off.

Oh, and I was joking about the Anon thing - I haven't a clue how to go about even locating a single member... which means they do their job well.

 

[White Eagle]

Re: Westboro Scum to Protest in Newtown.

I wonder what an IRS examination of their tax exempt status would reveal.

I like that, thanks.

 

[chrisrobin]

Re: Westboro Scum to Protest in Newtown.

FREE ADVICE TO THE MEDIA:
Turn off your cameras. Turn off your microphones. Go home. Go hug your kids.

MESSAGE TO WESTBORO:
We're not gonna take it
Never did and never will
Don't want no religion
And as far as we can tell
We ain't gonna take you
Never did and never will
We're not gonna take you
We forsake you
Gonna rape you
Let's forget you better still.
Tommy - The Who

Someone may have the right to "free" speech, but I have the right to not listen. Case closed.

 

[PreTTy PeTe]

Re: Picketing the Funerals of Dead Children!!?? Really Westboro Baptist Church? Realty??!!

 

[Laufey]

Re: Picketing the Funerals of Dead Children!!?? Really Westboro Baptist Church? Realty??!!

Americans are too paranoid about loosing their freedom just by having common sense regulations.

There are plenty of countries which have freedom of speech but manage to prevent these things from happening with laws which ban this degree of harassment.

You also have freedom of religion although there are many laws which contradict religions (for example you can't stone sinners). Nobody (or very few) complain about it being unconstitutional, it's just common sense.

And btw there is already such a thing as free speech zones in the US. It's okay to use that to protect big business and politicians but not grieving families?

The existence of free speech zones is based on U.S. court decisions stipulating that the government may regulate the time, place, and manner—but not content—of expression.

 

[mikey3000]

Re: Picketing the Funerals of Dead Children!!?? Really Westboro Baptist Church? Realty??!!

I did indeed address your point about Islam.

You're pushing your own ideas of democracy and equality for women onto a people that doesn't really want it.

Have you ever considered the Islamic woman's point of view? They are generally horrified by the fact that, in Western societies, a woman is left to fend for herself. They see this as cruelty beyond words.

When they meet an unmarried Western woman, they feel sorry for you. "Oh, you poor thing, you have nobody to take care of you," the thinking goes. Normally, they'll crowd around a Western woman in order to protect her.

Who are you to interfere with this?

Sir, I believe you're trying to push your own Western ideals onto other people. Don't you think, in a way, that that reflects Western bullying? If--and when--they decide to "reform", they'll do it at their own speed, thank you very much.

Bravo!!!!! Well said.

 

[PreTTy PeTe]

Re: Picketing the Funerals of Dead Children!!?? Really Westboro Baptist Church? Realty??!!

Jesus speaks

 

[mikey3000]

Re: Picketing the Funerals of Dead Children!!?? Really Westboro Baptist Church? Realty??!!

We can't have a serious discussion here if you're going to accuse me of being "brainwashed." I have my own objective, rational thoughts that I can support with legitimate information.

The Freedom of Speech is a unique principle that the U.S. Constitution stands for. It is one of our greatest protections against the government and the tyranny of the majority. You can claim it only protects the "bad guy," but there is a long history of how the freedom of speech has protected progress and pushed forward civil rights and our pursuit for equality. You can disagree all you want, but it is the law of the land and it protects you just as much as it protects me or the Westboro Baptist Church.

How would you define "trouble-makers?" What authority would you have to remove them from your country? Under what legal authority would you expel American citizens, and to where?

You didn't accurately address my point on Islam. In the case of cultural expression of Islam in a country like Saudi Arabia, it is common sense for the people there to believe that a woman should not drive, nor vote. Therefore, be careful when you invoke "common sense" as the authority of all that is appropriate and fair; as American common sense is different than Canadian common sense (as you illustrated in your first point), or Pakistani common sense. When you base "common sense" on the application of law, we would have never ended slavery because half of the nation still agreed on the "common sense" that slavery was a necessary and moral application to the U.S. economy. It took the ideal that "All men are created equal" to transcend beyond common sense.

That is why we are a representative Republic, not a populist Democracy.

You cannot wrap yourself in the flag and shut the real world out. Not everything is black or white. There are varying shades of gray that need interpretation.

 

[White Eagle]

Re: Westboro Scum to Protest in Newtown.

FREE ADVICE TO THE MEDIA:
Turn off your cameras. Turn off your microphones. Go home. Go hug your kids.

MESSAGE TO WESTBORO:
We're not gonna take it
Never did and never will
Don't want no religion
And as far as we can tell
We ain't gonna take you
Never did and never will
We're not gonna take you
We forsake you
Gonna rape you
Let's forget you better still.
Tommy - The Who

Someone may have the right to "free" speech, but I have the right to not listen. Case closed.

"This" is why I like you!!!! Thanks.

 

[bike10]

Re: Westboro Scum to Protest in Newtown.

The Westboro Cult of Indreeders.

 

[G-Lexington]

Re: Picketing the Funerals of Dead Children!!?? Really Westboro Baptist Church? Realty??!!

I would rather describe it as irony, but hey! Don't take my opinion into account. After all, typists cannot convey things with as much accuracy and subtlety as writers can.

"Irony", huh? OK, let's go with that.

The fact that I collected a tro-lol-lol chip from you might suggest that my post was just as much "typing" as yours, although my comments suggest that perhaps it wasn't. Yours certainly appears to have been less likely to be misconstrued.

Lex