Fuck me... USA does it again -- kids with guns!

[gsdx]

I absolutely agree, however, with that 'law' being a 'right' (which will never change), the problem continues to be, "what do we do about it?"

Since no-one can actually knows what that Amendment really means, that might be a place to start. Unfortunately, there is no decision which could be made which would satisfy everyone, and that might cause even more problems.

 

[chris0626]

I could be totally wrong here, but to me the one thing that links all of these incidents isn't the weaponry itself but that the perpetrators are all kids who appeared to have self esteem issues. It seems that most of them were all outcasts. They tend to have been unpopular kids who were picked on and maligned for any multiple reasons. They lashed out as a result.

And I think that directly goes back to my earlier statement about this society in general... no one (their parents especially) is paying attention to them. Too busy worrying about one silly thing or another (in perspective silly anyway) and not 'being with' their children.

And while I will concede that parenting (or lack thereof) isn't the only thing that's bad for these kids, it is certainly the first stop.

 

[GL]

And I think that directly goes back to my earlier statement about this society in general... no one (their parents especially) is paying attention to them. Too busy worrying about one silly thing or another (in perspective silly anyway) and not 'being with' their children.

And while I will concede that parenting (or lack thereof) isn't the only thing that's bad for these kids, it is certainly the first stop.

My thoughts exactly.

I have a number of family members who are teachers and you wouldn't believe the horror stories I hear. It would appear that there is a blind belief amongst parents that their children can do no wrong and any deficiencies in the character of same children is the fault of the teacher. Sad...

 

[Orlandude]

And while I will concede that parenting (or lack thereof) isn't the only thing that's bad for these kids, it is certainly the first stop.

Totally agree. It all starts in the home. Too many parents have no time for their kids anymore. They are too busy trying to make ends meet, obscessed with their overpriced houses, overpriced automobiles and overpriced lives that dictate that they both work 60 hours/week to pay for it all. They are also in denial that their kids can do any wrong and are the first to file lawsuits should someone offend their darling child whom they seldom see. I see it all the time in a community agency where I do volunteer work to help runaway kids. The most common thing that they all say is "My parents are never home so who cares what I do?" They have no guidance, no discipline, no moral code, no ethics and a warped sense of what is right and wrong. And we wonder why they end up with guns or run away or worse. And the schools get blamed. Schools are not parents. They are schools. Period. The sad part of it is that there is no end to this and it is getting worse.

 

[punkyboi]

As your fore-fathers, it is our DUTY to point your issues out to you - bare in mind.. you have 200 years of history.... we have closer to 2000! Whatever you think is new to you... chances are we've been through it already...

First off, my fore-fathers come from Ireland ... the southern part.

And secondly, how the can U.S. possibly deal with gun control issues when all us homosexuals are trying to get married?! I mean, is that not the more important issue? Well, after gas prices, of course.

 

[codixx]

I have been around guns since I can remember, and own guns currently, and never has anyone I know even thought of using them for violence. Guns are not the issue, the issue is a serious breakdown of the american family structure. I have seen a very sad trend in the United States of rude, vile, and disrespectfull children who laugh at authority and dare anyone to say anything. I firmly believe that children are not born bad, but do learn from poor examples and lack of proper guidence. Parents need to spend time with their children, be very involved in the lives of their children and guide them down the correct paths in life. I see too many parents trying to be a friend to their child, and that is wrong, they need to be the parent!! My father ruled the home with a very firm hand liberally applied to a bare ass when we got out of line. Not child abuse, but firm parenting done out of love not anger. Turst me when I say we learned rather quickly to keep in line and stay out of trouble. And the family activities were rewards for us all to enjoy and appreciate. Untill the American family unit is rebuilt, restored and united, we shall see this trend to inappropriate behavior and violent acting out continue. As a child throws a tantrum in a feeble and primative attempt to get their way, so does the older teen act out, but on a more deadly and violent manner. These children are not equipt to deal with their frustrations in life, nor do they know how to deal with difficult issues and to grow beyond their inner rage and anger. So, they lash out in violent, stupid and primative ways all the time thinking they are acting in an adult manner. I honestly don't think there is an easy solution to this violence, I do pray time will repair some of the damage to our family structure.

 

[Bashful]

Unfortunately, School shootings are not exclusively a US event..Scotland-
http://www.archive.official-documents.co.uk/document/scottish/dunblane/dun03a.htm
And the Montreal school shooting?http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/0913/montreal.html
And of course in Germany:
http://archives.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/04/27/germany.shooting/
It seems it is a problem all over the world!

 

[Nonimus]

Like Codixx (more or less) said - Its not guns that are the problem - its the fool holding it that does the damage.

And as Goldie-Looking-Chain says: "Gun's don't kill people - Rapper's Do"

If half of the pikey.chav/Ned population of Britain (twats between the ages of 12-20) had such easy access to guns as Yankee kids - we (The UK) would be having headlines just like this every day.

 

[TriBi]

Yes - but I think it is clear that there are two factors which contribute to the situation:

1. The upbringing/breakdown of family (lack of guidance/values, etc).
2. The ease of availability of guns.
Sure - you can kill someone with a knife...but not so many, not so easily and it doesn't have to be "face to face".

 

[Yves]

I think it´s important to look at the data available to put things in perspective. Isolated cases and anecdote have limitations.
What is the magnitude of the problem? According to the Centers of Disease Control (CDC) "the United States has the HIGHEST rates of childhood homicide, suicide, and firearm-related death among industrialized countries."
The evidence is consistent and overwhelming. Firearm death rates are the usual indicators used for comparison (Note: death rates are expressed per 100,000 children in each age group and for 1 year).
This CDC comparison (graph below) describes international trends:

Source: http://www.cdc.gov/MMWR/preview/mmwrhtml/00046149.htm

The rate for firearm-related deaths among children in the United States (1.66) was 2.7-fold greater than that in the country with the next highest rate (Finland, 0.62).
Rates for all types of firearm-related deaths are consistently higher in the United States compared to other countries.
• The overall firearm-related death rate among U.S. children aged less than 15 years was nearly 12 times higher than among children in the other 25 countries combined (1.66 compared with 0.14).
• The firearm-related homicide rate in the United States was nearly 16 times higher than that in all of the other countries combined (0.94 compared with 0.06).
• The firearm-related suicide rate was nearly 11 times higher (0.32 compared with 0.03).
• The unintentional firearm-related death rate was 9 times higher (0.36 compared with 0.04).

Gun violence in the US has special characteristics. Unintentional shootings account for nearly 20% of all firearm-related fatalities among children ages 14 and under, compared with 3% for the entire U.S. population.
A recent Children’s Defense Fund report (2006) found 2,827 children and teens died as a result of gun violence in 2003 — more than the number of American men and women killed in hostile action in Iraq from 2003 to April 2006.
• In 2003, 56 preschoolers were killed by firearms, compared to 52 law enforcement officers killed in the line of duty.
• More 10- to 19-year-olds die from gunshot wounds than from any other cause except motor vehicle accidents.
• Almost 90% of the children and teens killed by firearms in 2003 were boys.
• Boys ages 15 to 19 are nearly 9 times as likely as girls of the same age to be killed by a firearm.
• In 2003, there were more than 9 times as many suicides by guns among white children and teens as among black children and teens.
• The firearm death rate for black males ages 15 to 19 is more than 4 times that of white males the same age.
• There is inter-state variation. The seven states that recorded the most deaths among children and teens by firearms in 2003 were California, Texas, Illinois, New York, Pennsylvania, Florida and North Carolina. The state with the fewest child gun deaths was Hawaii with one.
Source: http://www.childrensdefense.org/site/DocServer/gunrpt_revised06.pdf?docID=1761

Public health experts and officials agree with the diagnosis. The US has the worst indicators of gun violence among children and teenagers in the world. A different question is to try to explain the key determinants of gun violence in the US: Gun laws? Gun availability? Parents? Unsafe handling? etc. There seems to be some unique factors operating in the US. joeslifeyork has a good point in terms of the US overall rates of gun violence among children and adolescents.

 

[GL]

Im sat here slightly intoxicated, but listening to the news.. there has been a massive bust in the usa.. kids with guns bust.

They had planned to seal the exits, set them on fire, blow up bombs and then shoot people they didnt like... if this is NOT evidence that guns are fucked... then fuck knows what is... btw - the news i was watcheing was CNN.... American... not british CNN... but American.

You guys have MAJOR issues which you need to address URGENTLY... much more so than we need to address ours... Farkin' 'Ell!!!!

Mate our problems are NOTHING compared to yours... trust me..

TonyBoy.....

We dont have kids about to slaughter 1400 kids... any beleif that we do, is steeped in total bollocks.

As your fore-fathers, it is our DUTY to point your issues out to you - bare in mind.. you have 200 years of history.... we have closer to 2000! Whatever you think is new to you... chances are we've been through it already...

As i have already stated... the issues we have, are NO WHERE NEAR as serious as the ones that you guys are suffering.

Actually Bash, if you look at the scotland issue, you will notice something which shows common sense.

Dunblane, 1996. Thomas Hamilton entered a school armed to the teeth and opened fire, before turning the weapon on himself.

This prompted the Firearms Act (Amendment) 1997, which effectively banned handguns from public ownership. All handguns had to be handed in for smelting, and since then it has been illegal to own a handgun.

Since then, 10 years plus, there has not been an incident like this since. In fact, the only shootings that have taken place, are generally gang land shootings.

If you look at the links another poster has provided, he gives a link to the BBC website and a report that gun crime is "rising"... what he forgets to mention or point out, is that the article is dated 2001... it has actually fallen dramatically since then.

My aim in posting this is not a "America bad, UK good" style thread, but rather to instigate good debate about what you guys are going to do about it. You cant just keep bouncing off the walls and ending back up where you started from and blaming it on "the second amendment".

Gun control and legislation needs to be tightened up. I know its difficult what with the NRA having so much influence at federal level etc.. so how about taking a look there. If you can change that, it opens the way up to change the gun legislation.. and stop the mindless killing that seems to be coming out of the United States of America every single month.

Sure, other countries have their gun crime too.. but it is NOWHERE near the level of the USA. In the UK, when ANYONE is shot.. it makes headline news... headline NATIONAL news. If every shooting was reported in the USA.. you'd need a 24hr news channel devoted to it.

Sure, you have a higher population, but per capita, you also have a disproportionate number of gun related crimes. Are you not worried about that?

I'm sorry Joe, but your posts in this thread are anything but a conceited attempt to show how us yanks pale in comparison to you all in the UK. This time it's gun control. Why should it matter to you or anyone else outside of the US how this country handles this issue? If you were a citizen of this country and had these issues I would ask you first if you're registered to vote and if you've spoken to your elected officials. If you haven't, then you've got no reason to bitch.

As for guns themselves, I've lived here in South Texas all my life, I grew up in the country and around guns... I don't worry about guns. I worry about the person holding the gun. Guns are not the problem here, its the kids and the fact that they're not being raised with care anymore.

 

[just_mills]

I like you ^
I'd like to have taken the time to type that, but I'd get distracted, probaly scrap it, and just write "fuck off"

 

[slobone]

[I edited myself]. Oh forget it. I resolved not to participate in these anti-American threads anymore, and I'll stick to that.

 

[GL]

[I edited myself]. Oh forget it. I resolved not to participate in these anti-American threads anymore, and I'll stick to that.

I agree. I'm so tired of this bash-a-thon crap. Because we're Americans we are damned if we do, damned if we don't. Feh.

 

[Yves]

It´s hardly a "them vs. us" issue when American officials and public health organizations recognize the magnitude of the problem of gun violence. The US has the highest rates of childhood homicide, suicide, and firearm-related death among industrialized countries. Unchallenged data. Are we supposed to deny reality?

 

[gsdx]

Unfortunately, School shootings are not exclusively a US event..And the Montreal school shooting?http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/0913/montreal.html

School shootings in Canada are few and far between. The last was in 1986 (?) and was done by a completely whacko guy who barged into a school and shot at nurses. both shootings involved college-aged victims and 'adult' shooters.

I don't recall any shootings involving young children.

When it happens in Canada, it is real news and not just a rehash of last-week's news. And we do things about it to try to prevent it from ever happening again.

Guns are not readily available to children, and those guns which actually are available are locked up securely. The children not only have to find a way to get into the cabinets, they must learn how to unlock the guns as well and, in many cases, must find the rest of the firearm and figure out how to put it all together. Then they must go in search of the ammunition. They can't simply walk into Grandpa's bedroom and pick up an arsenal and be ready to shoot up a school in five minutes flat.

 

[just_mills]

So to round things up, the way most things in America work, are gash.

 

[jackoroe]

TonyBoy.....

We dont have kids about to slaughter 1400 kids... any beleif that we do, is steeped in total bollocks.

As your fore-fathers, it is our DUTY to point your issues out to you - bare in mind.. you have 200 years of history.... we have closer to 2000! Whatever you think is new to you... chances are we've been through it already...

As i have already stated... the issues we have, are NO WHERE NEAR as serious as the ones that you guys are suffering.

Being as you've decided to be disrespectful to my country, let me say the following. We've kicked your ass twice over the last 200 something years. So piss off and keep your advice to yourself. You ain't all that fucking bright, sir. Have a nice day!

 

[Nonimus]

Being as you've decided to be disrespectful to my country, let me say the following. We've kicked your ass twice over the last 200 something years. So piss off and keep your advice to yourself. You ain't all that fucking bright, sir. Have a nice day!

Such an intelligent response. Are you any relation to Lost_Love perchance?

 

[gsdx]

We've kicked your ass twice over the last 200 something years.

The first permanent settlement in North America was in Canada, and Canada is the only country (British colony in 1812) to win a war against the United States. We grew up right beside you at the same time you did, made up mostly from Loyal colonists who were expelled from the US following the Revolutionary War. Yet we do not have the same problems - at least not to the same extent - as you do.

There must be a reason for the differences.

Guns are created for one purpose, and one purpose only, and that is to kill things. It can sit around for centuries and not do a thing. It must be in the hands of a human being to be of use, and that use certainly isn't for stirring your morning coffee.

I often hear the argument that people own and carry guns to protect themselves, but I rarely hear stories in the news where people die because someone was protecting themselves.