Gay and Conservative

[jm_nicholas]

No, I'm not a supporter of President Trump..

But why is it such a terrible crime to be gay and conservative? Why is it? I would like to be part of debate and join these conversations online - but I have before - and my participation is always met with the same nastiness and hostility. I'm a self-hater, racist, and all the rest.. I've read through the threads in the political forum - and either there are truly NO conservatives in the gay faction (which I don't believe) or they're just sick of being name-called.. So that's the question: why do people hate to hear a dissenting view in a conversation that's otherwise one-sided. In fact, I'm going to leave you a poll - and I'll honor its results, I promise!

 

[Alnitak]

If I have read the OP correctly, then it has answered its own questions.

 

[Dominus]

So-called gay conservatives seem to suffer from memory loss regarding sodomy laws that were in the books for 16 states or so until 2003 when the USSC declared such laws unconstitutional. Conservatives fought tooth and nail to keep those laws in place.

 

[TX-Beau]

Let's see:

1. What do you mean by "Conservative," unfortunately there are plenty of people using that term who mean wildly different things. Until you define what you personally intend that to encompass there is no way to discuss this with you.

2. Gay people by and large are hostile to "Conservative" because the people currently most associated with that term tend to be rabid gay hating bigots who want to take our rights away. I fail to see how you would have failed to notice this.

3. If you are voting for said gay hating bigots because you think giving tax breaks to the super rich is more important than my civil liberties... I fail to see how that would baffle you as to why there is going to be hostility.

4. I have never seen a massive negative response for gay conservatives who didn't carry water for said gay hating bigots. Frankly there aren't actually huge percentages of gay men who are ideologically far left. The left is just not populated by gay hating bigots.

5. Did I mention the gay hating bigots?

If you want to discuss ideology, that isn't going to get you vilified, if you want to support the politics of haters and the hateful laws they want to create - which incidentally aren't "Conservative" by the obsolete definition, you're on your own. I didn't vote in your poll because there is no answer that applies. I'm perfectly happy to endlessly debate tax policy and fiscal responsibility, but if you're trying to put in power people who want to strip me of my rights, I could give a fuck about your philosophy and you are the enemy.

Finally, there have been a bunch of people with varying degrees of "Conservatism" in various definitions on these boards, if you really head read thorough all of them, I'm surprised you missed it. If you want to participate, jump in, if you don't, don't. "Conservatives" are hardly the only ones getting shit tossed at them in here.

- - - Updated - - -

So-called gay conservatives seem to suffer from memory loss regarding sodomy laws that were in the books for 16 states or so until 2003 when the USSC declared such laws unconstitutional. Conservatives fought tooth and nail to keep those laws in place.

BASTARD! You beat me to it.

 

[rareboy]

It depends on what kind of conservative you are.

There are many different types.

When the gay 'conservative' is really just a racist, misogynistic reactionary only interested in protecting their white privilege, then their 'dissenting' voice is really just a dog whistle for a much darker and dangerous message of exclusion and oppression.

TX-Beau did all the heavy lifting here. There's really nothing more to add.

 

[JarodA]

It depends on what kind of conservative you are.

There are many different types.

When the gay 'conservative' is really just a racist, misogynistic reactionary only interested in protecting their white privilege, then their 'dissenting' voice is really just a dog whistle for a much darker and dangerous message of exclusion and oppression.

TX-Beau did all the heavy lifting here. There's really nothing more to add.

I'm shut off to the 'white privilege' concept in general, but I'm interested (not in a good way, but still) in those in the gay community adopting it. What other race is even tolerating us on any comparable scale? Dating's hard enough first of all, most gay people that are out and also have supportive communities etc. are white. No other race even tolerates us on any comparable scale, so what's in it for me as a gay person to denounce my 'white privilege'? I actually think anti-white sentiment now so common on the left, also the 'home' of gays, is potentially endangering to all our progress as gays actually .

I understand not liking racism, or for instance having sympathy for gay people in Africa or Middle East - totally get it, but it's also the worst when they emigrate to white countries and bemoan 'white privilege', because they come to countries they may not be able to be 100% open depending how much influence their families still have on them, but they can at least see other gay people with less fear, enter public life as a gay person etc. on some kind of scale. At the very least, there are lots of options for people to date or fuck. Most of those people will probably be white, and I don't think that's a bad thing It just means we've most embraced gay people in our societies.

I don't even think you have to be white to be attractive or whatever, but it's simply easier as a gay guy to date another white guy, because I know they're most likely to have supportive communities, and on the other side of that, I won't get some Dad, brother, friends etc. come after me for 'corrupting their son' or whatever. Of course it would be nice if men of colour had more community support for gay men etc. but that's on them as far as I'm concerned, and I feel sympathy, but no personal responsibility at all.

 

[TX-Beau]

I'm shut off to the 'white privilege' concept in general, but I'm interested (not in a good way, but still) in those in the gay community adopting it. What other race is even tolerating us on any comparable scale? Dating's hard enough first of all, most gay people that are out and also have supportive communities etc. are white. No other race even tolerates us on any comparable scale, so what's in it for me as a gay person to denounce my 'white privilege'? I actually think anti-white sentiment now so common on the left, also the 'home' of gays, is potentially endangering to all our progress as gays actually .

I understand not liking racism, or for instance having sympathy for gay people in Africa or Middle East - totally get it, but it's also the worst when they emigrate to white countries and bemoan 'white privilege', because they come to countries they may not be able to be 100% open depending how much influence their families still have on them, but they can at least see other gay people with less fear, enter public life as a gay person etc. on some kind of scale. At the very least, there are lots of options for people to date or fuck. Most of those people will probably be white, and I don't think that's a bad thing It just means we've most embraced gay people in our societies.

I don't even think you have to be white to be attractive or whatever, but it's simply easier as a gay guy to date another white guy, because I know they're most likely to have supportive communities, and on the other side of that, I won't get some Dad, brother, friends etc. come after me for 'corrupting their son' or whatever. Of course it would be nice if men of colour had more community support for gay men etc. but that's on them as far as I'm concerned, and I feel sympathy, but no personal responsibility at all.

Ahhh, I see the issue. You aren't so much an ideological "Conservative" as you are a gay person who wants to participate in all the more fashionable bigotries on the right.

It must be terribly isolating to realize that all those white people so fond of us gays are on the left while the "Conservatives" You seem to want to include yourself among want nothing to do with your gay self.

Tell us, did you vote for Pence?

 

[cityboy-stl]

As a liberal I am completely open to listening to and discussing honest, intelligent, rational conservative speakers. I welcome other well-thought-out opposing political views.

But there are some things I will not listen to.
They are:
1. Irrational conspiracy theories.
2. Mindless rejection of reality and science.
3. Bold-faced lies, incoherent rants, and hatred of others.
4. Fascist, white-supremacist, or theocratic bigotry.

Too often conservatism is a masquerade for intolerance, ignorance, stupidity, falsehood, and out-and-out hate. I will not give credibility to such things by engaging in a conversation like it's an honest debate. It is not.

If you want to debate, you must make a good-faith effort to be factual and honest, grounded in reality and truth, supported by actual evidence, and be civil and respectful.

Sorry "conservatives" but Nazi's, nut-cases, and haters do not qualify as legitimate opposing political viewpoints.

 

[JarodA]

Ahhh, I see the issue. You aren't so much an ideological "Conservative" as you are a gay person who wants to participate in all the more fashionable bigotries on the right.

It must be terribly isolating to realize that all those white people so fond of us gays are on the left while the "Conservatives" You seem to want to include yourself among want nothing to do with your gay self.

Tell us, did you vote for Pence?

What bigotry? I'll treat everyone as an individual but I will not accept the notion that I have to be a self-hating white to be a good person or to not be bigoted. This is a very recent development in leftism that I think is going to turn people, including gays, away from it in droves. I think you'd also be surprised how many of us there are that feel the same. Besides, the internet's a big place you can always find likeminded people and beliefs are unimportant if one prefers the hookup route.

 

[rareboy]

Ahhh, I see the issue. You aren't so much an ideological "Conservative" as you are a gay person who wants to participate in all the more fashionable bigotries on the right.

It must be terribly isolating to realize that all those white people so fond of us gays are on the left while the "Conservatives" You seem to want to include yourself among want nothing to do with your gay self.

Tell us, did you vote for Pence?

I figured if we scratched the surface even a little, this is what we'd find.

People hiding under the white sheet of 'conservativism' in order to legitimize their own bigotry.

I am fascinated though, why the OP, with only 68 posts over 15 years and no real history of participating in this forum feels moved to create the poll?

 

[JarodA]

I figured if we scratched the surface even a little, this is what we'd find.

People hiding under the white sheet of 'conservativism' in order to legitimize their own bigotry.

I am fascinated though, why the OP, with only 68 posts over 15 years and no real history of participating in this forum feels moved to create the poll?

Are you going to specify what bigotry or just keep playing buzzword bingo?

 

[TX-Beau]

Are you going to specify what bigotry or just keep playing buzzword bingo?

If you can't see something so blatant, I suspect he can't help you, no one can. Frankly it's just tedious trying to explain racism. Especially when there is little chance the other guy is interested in listening.

 

[TX-Beau]

What bigotry? I'll treat everyone as an individual but I will not accept the notion that I have to be a self-hating white to be a good person or to not be bigoted. This is a very recent development in leftism that I think is going to turn people, including gays, away from it in droves. I think you'd also be surprised how many of us there are that feel the same. Besides, the internet's a big place you can always find likeminded people and beliefs are unimportant if one prefers the hookup route.

I think this is a bunch of happy delusions you are employing to reinforce the racism in your other statement. There are unfortunately plenty of racist white gays, but unfortunately for you, most of them are sufficiently aware of their own self interest to abandon right wing asshats who hate us more than the mud people. Reality betrays you, there simply isn't much presence of gay people of any color on the right, and so long as they call us perverts and sinners, there never will be.

I was going to be much more severe, but let's try something more productive and see if you are really interested in discussion, or are just looking to complain.

You began this by asking about political philosophy. Please define what you think is the most important aspect of Conservatism.

 

[opinterph]

It depends on what kind of conservative you are.

There are many different types.

Here Are the 6 Different Types of Conservative (Swamp; 2018)

 

[opinterph]

Tell us, did you vote for Pence?

LGBT rights in New Zealand

 

[TX-Beau]

LGBT rights in New Zealand

Mea Culpa, I got two different posters confused.

 

[jm_nicholas]

(for Rareboy)
Are you insane or just plain ignorant? That is NOT even my post.


Why the OP felt compelled to create this post: because the OP lived primarily at another similar forum and was bullied out. He hoped he might find people here more friendly to opposing views, and is so far convinced he will not.

 

[cityboy-stl]

^^ I think I gave an answer saying I'd be friendly to opposing views as long you "make a good-faith effort to be factual and honest, grounded in reality and truth, supported by actual evidence". Those things seem basic to a valid discussion, don't they? What's wrong with that?

https://www.justusboys.com/forum/th...nservative?p=11342243&viewfull=1#post11342243

 

[Kyanimal]

(for Rareboy)
Are you insane or just plain ignorant? That is NOT even my post.


Why the OP felt compelled to create this post: because the OP lived primarily at another similar forum and was bullied out. He hoped he might find people here more friendly to opposing views, and is so far convinced he will not.

It seems that the "fire" here is being directed at the poster who began his comments about "white privilege", with some following mistaken identity. That poster is JarodA, and not the OP, jm_nicholas.

That being said, I also think there is a misunderstanding when the term "white privilege" is used. It's not actually referring to race as much as the perceptions learned while living white in our society. As a white guy, I didn't understand until it was explained to me, and that's precisely the point.

Since I am white, I have not encounterd the daily, systemic, biases arrayed against those of color (any color other than white) that are so prevalent, and ingrained, in the American (U.S.A.) experiment. Though they range from subtle to blatant, and are endemic, as a white guy I've been living oblivious to most of them because they haven't been directed at Me. I haven't had to continually deal with them. SO ... Yes ... being white does "automatically" come with privileges that we "pale faces" take for granted, and don't even consciously realize. "White privilege" is a set of attitudes developed by not having to confront basic inequities.

As for conservatism, it's too easily mistaken for "Trumpism" with that monster in our midst these days. They are not the same thing. I will gladly discuss conservative values, and issues, in a civil, factual, logical manner. I can't guarantee which side I will take because that also depends on the subject at hand.

 

[JarodA]

If you can't see something so blatant, I suspect he can't help you, no one can. Frankly it's just tedious trying to explain racism. Especially when there is little chance the other guy is interested in listening.

Sigh, more or less all I've said is I'm white and don't feel bad for that. This is where liberals normally say 'we don't think all white people are racist, that's just a right-wing meme' .

For the post underneath, I don't identify as conservative so I won't speak for them - you guys have just gone so far out that you make normal people look like conservatives. Call me a liberal of a decade or more ago when you guys were sane.