Gay for Pay = Locking the Closet Doors

[Clooneyesque]

Well, I've been venting in other threads about this whole straight- boy-gets- paid- for- having -gay -sex phenomenon which for me has been very hurtful in taking it's toll on my own gay self-image -- so I guess I need a little sympathy here.

"Gay for Pay = Locking the Closet Doors" isn't about the porn performers, it's about me and those like me who feel like they're constantly being bombarded with images that reinforce the idea that straight = sexy and beautiful while gay = sexless and ugly.

Look up at the ad bar above: eight out of ten times it will be an image of a hot allegedly straight man being paid loads of cash (the only inducement) for having gay sex. What's even worse is all the posters in the various threads (especially in the "naughty bits" section) who gleefully extol the beauties inherent in being straight.

So say if I was a closeted gay man, possibly under-aged (and let's be honest here, despite precautions on the part of the owners a lot of teens probably do visit this website) and I was constantly being shown these images that straight = beautiful while gay = ugly -- given the type of self image that it would reinforce - why on earth should I ever come out? Why not lock the closet doors if it made me feel that I'd be more accepted, beautiful and desirable?

But of course that's the danger of all porn and our beautiful celebrity-obsessed culture as a whole, in the end it just makes us hate ourselves all the more. And I'm not sure there's anything that can be done about it.

Am I alone in feeling this way, or is there anybody else out there?

 

[calvar]

Porn caters to fantasy. It's not surprising that hot straight guys appear in a lot of gay men's fantasies and so the gay porn industry reflects that. I think you've put the cart before the horse in that porn (like any other business) tends to reflect the desires of consumers rather than dictate them. In other words, if there are so many pay-sites out there showing hot 'straight' guys it's because there are gay guys with credit cards are willing to pony up the bucks to see them. Nor do I see a whole lot of emphasis in gay porn on the second point of your arguement that 'gay=ugly'

Regarding your comments on the whole self-esteem issue, I think that it would be a big mistake to think that gay porn reflects 'gay culture' (if there is such a thing) any more than Hollywood reflects mainstream North American culture. Each may influence the other to an extent, but overall I'd have to say that extent is pretty moderate as the overwhelming majority of folks (both gay and straight) can make the distinction between reality and fantasy...

In many ways, I envy young gay people growing up in Canada or Europe or the US today. The 'net offers enormous resources and affirming messages to young gay people who are confused/troubled about their own sexuality that hardly existed even 15-20 years ago. I just think that it's a bit unrealistic to expect that all gay sites, especially gay porn sites, will have such an emphasis.

 

[G-Lexington]

I personally don't understand the "straight" appeal to the gay demographic. To me, that's like saying, "Here's a hot guy who has NO interest in having sex with you!"...and I dunno, I sort of like the idea that maybe there's a chance that that hottie might. That might be a tad on the delusional side, but there you be.

But this certainly isn't the only place I apparently deviate from the norm when it comes to porn. I've never found cops or soldiers inherently sexy, either, for one thing. But the porn industry as a whole doesn't appear to be in any danger of collapse, which means they probably know what they're doing...and they probably know their audience. I'm just not it.

The real problem isn't that the porn industry doesn't reflect reality. It's that people seem to think it should. Yes, the porn industry likes to show "straight" guys. They also show guys with bigger dicks than average, who are fitter than average, and who cum more than average. Should they slap a disclaimer up? "Your dick size may vary - and it's OK." Porn manufacturers are in the business of selling fantasy, and I don't really think they can be held responsible for people's lack of self image.

Besides, whatever image problems gay men might have coming into contact with this sort of thing, I don't think they can relate to those that (straight) women have to deal with. Women don't just run into this sort of thing on banners on select websites - they see attractive women at every friggin' turn.

Lex

 

[OptimalOptimus]

I agree, and i think JUB needs to be carefull what kinda image it's creating for it's self. JUB is not just about porn. alot of my friends are turned off to JUB becuase porn is BLASTERD all over it's front pages. SETH ! you need to change JUB and clean up it's image. It shouldnt' be about porn it should be about People and the beauty of being differnet.

 

[cellular]

First of all, this is a porn site, so if u do come here, you will get porn. I also think that there is a demand for a cleaner site for gay guys, one where there is just talk on topics relevant to us gays. Like this topic for example.
I do think to a certain extent that straight guys are hotter, but it was not driven by the porn i see here. Rather it was driven from my instincts and attraction to predominantly masculine men. That is something that i have known all my life, before i got onto jub. I dont see anything wrong with it. I dont see myself belittled by it. Its just advertising and it appeals to the audience.

 

[bryce]

I agree, and i think JUB needs to be carefull what kinda image it's creating for it's self. JUB is not just about porn. alot of my friends are turned off to JUB becuase porn is BLASTERD all over it's front pages. SETH ! you need to change JUB and clean up it's image. It shouldnt' be about porn it should be about People and the beauty of being differnet.

It's much easier said that done guys. I definitly know what you are getting at and I don't disagree. We are all bombarded with society's views of what constitutes beauty and what is sexy every day. Its on billboards and commercials and movies and magazine and we could go on and on and on. Let's face it though... sex sells and everyone is trying to pay the bills. If JUB were to try and become a non-profit it would be bankrupt in a day.

I noticed that not a single person in this thread is a jub supporter paying the $29.95 a year to help fund this website. In fact, since we have had supporters we have only 247 that have signed up out of over 100,000 people who use the forum. Thats nice and all, but that doesn't come close to covering the expenses for even one month. That wouldn't even cover the bandwidth for one month much less the multitude of other expenses.

We have 9 employees that keep things running here. I have to pay them a decent wage and because we try to be a good company, those employees have health insurance, 401K, and other benefits you might expect. Plus we spend tons on marketing (such as google adwords and free tshirts). Let's just say that monthly expenses here come pretty darn close to 6 digits every month.

Justusboys.com is in ranked by alexa as one of the top 3,500 websites on the entire internet. It has millions of pageviews per day and now takes 15 servers to keep it up and running. Folks it ain't cheap and it is the porn that makes it possible. You can argue that it is sad, but without a doubt it is true.

 

[crakker_jakk]

I do think to a certain extent that straight guys are hotter, but it was not driven by the porn i see here. Rather it was driven from my instincts and attraction to predominantly masculine men.

yeah.. cuz there's no such thing as a masculine gay man..

 

[arteguy]

Seth I appreciate your honesty. The Straight Guy thing concerns me but there is an appeal. I think a big turn on for alot of people is wanting what you can't have. He is normally out of reach while gay men are presented as sleeping with anyone. We really didn't have this when I was coming out, but I think if I was younger it would effect what I thought, because it is pretty pervasive. I'm old enough to know that alot of these guys are gay,a decent amount of cash is involved, and that model releases and contracts are involved. I know younger guys aren't stupid, but I got alot of info on being gay in the late eighties from mags and movies. They seemed to be more political, didn't focus much on str8 men, and it was mainly safe-sex, so it seemed normal. Now it looks like we are all going bareback with straight guys that we have to pay alot. I think if we portrayed the diversity of gay men more, we might not have to look to straight guys for our idea of masculinity.

 

[Clooneyesque]

Well, certainly no one would refute that this is first a porn site and that porn is primarily a business. I sympathize with Seth when he says that bills need to be paid to support this site, no one can argue with that. All the same there are places on the forum, especially in the "no-flame" zone that would indicate that JUB wishes the forums to reflect a larger part of gay life than just porn.

I've never disputed as qualanalt contends that porn reflects the desires of it's audience rather than drive them. But if that's true, then my concern is why such an apparently large portion of gay men would think that straight men are more desirable.

However I don't agree that cultural media such as porn and Hollywood movies do not reflect our everyday realities -- of course it does, and it goes both ways. I'm not saying reality and fantasy are the same things, but art does imitate life and life in turn imitates art.

Lastly, I'm curious why this thread that I started was moved from "Coming Out and Relationships" in the safe no-flame zone to "Hot Topics." My motive in starting this topic was in order to vent my feelings of alienation and how it posed an obstacle to my own coming out process. I was primarily interested in hearing if there are others like me who encounter the same problem, but now I feel like I may be attacked simply for having these feelings -- whether they are valid or not.

 

[jockboy01]

I'd never thought of the gay for pay in that aspect. I actually always figured the boys were bi or gay and just didn't have the guts to admit it so they said they did it for the money. But that is an interesting take on the situation... and sad if young gay guys see it as such.

In high school, I didn't have internet access (and no boys, I'm not that old). I did in college but didn't use it that much and wouldn't have thought of looking for gay porn sites at that time (I was just learning email afterall haha). The ads no longer appear for me (mods/supporters are ad free) but I used to totally block them out. JUB was just a great resource.

As to bills... first off, that's awesome the popularity of JUB Seth!! I didn't realize it had grown that much!! Well done!! And yes, like all websites, they need to pay the bills and like most, they use ads to do it (otherwise they would charge a fee and I wouldn't be here most likely). I think it just happens that gay porn will pay to advertise on gay websites while most other companies don't focus on the gay community. Just sad but true facts imo.

And Clooneyesque, I didn't move your thread and I hope you don't feel like anybody is attacking you. I actually appreciate that insight into gay for pay. It is an interesting angle and probably one that many people share.

 

[crakker_jakk]

I'd never thought of the gay for pay in that aspect. I actually always figured the boys were bi or gay..

that's actually what's so ridiculous and annoying about these so-called 'straight' ads.. most of those guys are so obviously gay that someone hasto put a HUGE banner up proclaiming their heterosexuality.. it just feeds the whole 'straight' mythology that gay men should worship them.. and then ppl wonder why they don't want us in the military..

 

[gazzax2]

well i have to say most gay people i know and have seen in my life are not the most attractive, there are alot of hotties but from my personal experience not as many hotties per capita as str8s.

 

[crakker_jakk]

well i have to say most gay people i know and have seen in my life are not the most attractive, there are alot of hotties but from my personal experience not as many hotties per capita as str8s.

you needta get outta brisbane..

 

[Boogerqueesha]

This IS a big website, and money talks.

I see gay guys' obsession with straights silly and almost endearing, but not particularly unhealthy. It's not going to make the overall gay self-esteem come crashing down. Straight guys are straight; unavailability and challenge add to attraction. They are the sex you are attracted to, but they aren't interested- some women find that hot too.

Gay guys : Straight guys :: (EDIT- STRAIGHT) Women : Gay guys

^like I said, maybe irritating, but mostly just silly.

 

[calvar]

I've never disputed as qualanalt contends that porn reflects the desires of it's audience rather than drive them. But if that's true, then my concern is why such an apparently large portion of gay men would think that straight men are more desirable.

However I don't agree that cultural media such as porn and Hollywood movies do not reflect our everyday realities -- of course it does, and it goes both ways. I'm not saying reality and fantasy are the same things, but art does imitate life and life in turn imitates art.

In my post, I said that while porn and Hollywood influence gay and mainstream culture, I think it's mistaken to overestimate that influence. In other words, while art can imitate life and life can imitate art, it doesn't necessarily follow that they will do so. And while it's probably my fault for having brought up the porn/hollywood comparision in the first place, I'm not prepared to accept porn is 'art'. Art and porn can both entertain, but art can also elevate or inspire or challenge in a way that porn doesn't (and shouldn't be expected to).

Again, it comes down to distinguishing fantasy from reality. Porn caters to fantasy, the guys are hot, hung and f**k like 18-year olds on viagra (which of course, some of them are... ). Now maybe in your life, you've only fantasized about 'doing it' with hot gay guys; for myself, most of the guys I've found hot are straight (and that's probably less of a reflection of my taste than the fact that straight guys make up 85-98% of the male population!).

Fantasy, for most of us, is about realizing the impossible or obtaining the unobtainable, so I'd argue that for most gay guys, watching hot straight guys perform gay sex for money is more along those lines than expressing hatred/disdain for gay guys. After all, the self-identified gay guys on Sean Cody/Corbin Fisher/Jake Cruise/Randy Blue/etc. certainly aren't 'ugly' or less attractive than the self-identified straight guys...

Sure, there are some 'unhealthy' fantasies out there, but they almost never become harmful until some poor individual confuses fantasy with reality and, even there, I'd argue the solution is to help that individual rather than ban/regulate TV/movies/books (or porn! ).

 

[Apollo]

hmmm, heres a radical idea! ever thing that they are really just gay for pay? i am sure some of them are far from straight. i mean if you keep going back and back to have more gay sex, most likely you arnt actually straight. but i am pretty sure a lot of them are ACTUALLY straight - no way! - seriously. you guys debate this nonstop, and it doesnt stop those straight men (yes straight!) from walking into those studios and having gay sex. but i guess if it makes you happy to call a straight guy getting paid up to $5,000 to suck a dick, then you go right ahead. just thought i would throw in my two cents just like you guys are.

EDIT// ok i just read the original post, and it seems he was talking about himself in regards to straight men in gay porn. i sort of agree. but still, i stand by my first paragraph.

 

[sparky95]

you needta get outta brisbane..

There are a suprising number of ugly men in this city! Do women boast about having had sex with gay men? I can see the point about straight = hot, gay= not being a sign of internalized homophobia. It always seems a bit off to me, but then I like sissy-boys!

 

[calvar]

hmmm, heres a radical idea! ever thing that they are really just gay for pay? i am sure some of them are far from straight. i mean if you keep going back and back to have more gay sex, most likely you arnt actually straight. but i am pretty sure a lot of them are ACTUALLY straight - no way! - seriously. you guys debate this nonstop, and it doesnt stop those straight men (yes straight!) from walking into those studios and having gay sex. but i guess if it makes you happy to call a straight guy getting paid up to $5,000 to suck a dick, then you go right ahead. just thought i would throw in my two cents just like you guys are.

EDIT// ok i just read the original post, and it seems he was talking about himself in regards to straight men in gay porn. i sort of agree. but still, i stand by my first paragraph.

I think for the point of this thread, it matters less whether they are, in fact, 'straight' as opposed to being identified as straight.

 

[GL]

It's much easier said that done guys. I definitly know what you are getting at and I don't disagree. We are all bombarded with society's views of what constitutes beauty and what is sexy every day. Its on billboards and commercials and movies and magazine and we could go on and on and on. Let's face it though... sex sells and everyone is trying to pay the bills. If JUB were to try and become a non-profit it would be bankrupt in a day.

I noticed that not a single person in this thread is a jub supporter paying the $29.95 a year to help fund this website. In fact, since we have had supporters we have only 247 that have signed up out of over 100,000 people who use the forum. Thats nice and all, but that doesn't come close to covering the expenses for even one month. That wouldn't even cover the bandwidth for one month much less the multitude of other expenses.

We have 9 employees that keep things running here. I have to pay them a decent wage and because we try to be a good company, those employees have health insurance, 401K, and other benefits you might expect. Plus we spend tons on marketing (such as google adwords and free tshirts). Let's just say that monthly expenses here come pretty darn close to 6 digits every month.

Justusboys.com is in ranked by alexa as one of the top 3,500 websites on the entire internet. It has millions of pageviews per day and now takes 15 servers to keep it up and running. Folks it ain't cheap and it is the porn that makes it possible. You can argue that it is sad, but without a doubt it is true.

I am very happy to say that I am one of those 247 who have put my money (although its only $30) into this site. I did it because I am very thankful for what this site has done for me. It's a small and very modest investment in this place and I hope that it stays around for a good, long while. That being said, yeah... it sucks to have the ads up but it is what pays the bills. I would respectfully ask everyone to join up as a JUB Supporter if only to clear your view of the ads.

That was my 'suck-up' for the night! If I'm ever in the L.A. area maybe the guys will give me a tour of their broom closet or something...

 

[arteguy]

I agree that people should know between fantasy and reallity, and that porn is just fantasy. And it seems that most of us know the difference. I see the problem more as this, when I lived in LA for 7 years I almost forgot about homophobia. Now I'v lived for 7 years in Texas. Almost every day I hear a gay slur or read about the hatred of us in the paper.When I say something about it I get "Oh, I didn't mean you, you don't seem gay." Most of my gay friends act pretty much like me, so people buy into gay=weak, sissies, morally corrupt, straight=manly, normal, going to heaven. I've joined a few sites, the guys are hot. But it seems that there are more and more of these straight sites, and a large amount of gay sites have these ads. I think it's a good discussion.