"Gay for Pay"

[kornpone]

no self-respecting straight man is going to have sex with another guy regardless of the amount of money. I know myself, as a self-respecting “gay” man I would not be able to have sex with a woman for money.

But why assume that any of these guys, "gay" or "straight", have the kind of self-respect and integrity that you do? In many cases it seems obvious that they don't. (We call them whores - not that that's necessarily a bad thing, just not my cup of tearoom tea). But I thank you for agreeing with me overall.

The main point of the post, however, as some of the replies pointed out, is not about the "gay for pay" guys (who in the end are nothing more than an image on the video screen), but gay guys who are fascinated by this sort of thing (and I have to admit that I'm one). Has anyone noticed how popular these gay for pay sites are? There seems to be an implicit message here that guys who are only into the opposite sex are more sexier, more desirable, and better fuckers (even with other guys) than gay guys whose dicks are as limp as their wrists. Isn't that what the dominant homophobic society we live in would have us believe? Sure, you may not care whether they're straight or not as long as they're hot, but maybe there's something more subliminal going on here - encouraging us to hate what we are and want something we can't have. Think about it.

Anyways, thanks for all the replies on this post. I really needed some feedback on this subject.

http://nakedcamei.blogspot.com/ (great blog, good pics and intelligent writing.)

 

[tbonez]

And yes, some people may find it hot, but to be honet, i think there's lot to the "Self-loathing" thing too.

Why is it always about the "self-loathing" with you? (JK)

I'm not into the 'straight on straight' porn because it generally looks like it was filmed with a Fisher Price MY-First-Cam. That, and the fact I wonder if it isn't really about taking advantage of some poor broke bloke who is so desperate for cash that he will do anything to pay the rent?

I have had some pretty damn hot sex with straight boys and I'm totally in love with myself. No self loathing here!

 

[tbonez]

Just so we're clear on this.. Most of the Fratmen REALLY ARE striaght..

That almost sounded like a commercial....

 

[kornpone]

Why is it always about the "self-loathing" with you? (JK)



I have had some pretty damn hot sex with straight boys and I'm totally in love with myself. No self loathing here!

If you had such damn hot sex with them than how can you be so sure that they were "straight"?

Anyways, it's not so much about self-loathing as it is our need to hang onto labels - "gay", "straight", and "bi" - which are over- simplistic and a bit outdated. People nowadays need to believe in these labels in the same way that people in the middle ages needed to believe that the earth was flat and at the center of the universe, it's the only way they can make sense of the world. But that doesn't necessarily mean it's the truth.

I agree with the posts that say it's all about the money. And like a lot of commercial transactions, it's mostly about the (prick) tease more than it's about actual delivery. Nowadays they call these guys "Gay for Pay", back in high school they had a more accurate term for them: "queer bait."

"A way can be a guide,
but not a fixed path,
Names can be given,
but not permanent labels"

Tao te

 

[Zeremonie]

I agree with you. Although I don’t believe that a real str8 man would have sex with another man, even for money. I would like to see gay porn without the "str8/bi" men. I would like to see gay porn with gay men who love men.

My thoughts exactly!! Really straight guys (and there are some, just as there are men who are really and truly gay) don't go anywhere near cocks and buttholes, and especially not for money on camera. My two cents.

 

[tbonez]

(in response to:Originally Posted by bma1983) My thoughts exactly!! Really straight guys (and there are some, just as there are men who are really and truly gay) don't go anywhere near cocks and buttholes, and especially not for money on camera. My two cents.

I'm glad to hear you have never been a junkie!

'cause if you had you'd know that if you needed a fix and some guy offered you $200 to put a lighted firecracker up you ass while he took pictures, you'd probably do it!

 

[tbonez]

"If you had such damn hot sex with them than how can you be so sure that they were "straight"?" Kornpone

Um... because they like the cunt and titties and not the cock 'n ass?

Makes them straight in my books.

When I was a wee pup I had a mad crush on a straight guy. I wanted him so badly I could taste it. So one night I got him drunk as a sailor on a day pass, pulled down his fly and blew him to beat the band. When he 'came' he put his foot in the middle of my chest and pushed me half-way across the room zipped up his fly and never spoke to me again.

For me it was HOT HOT HOT. Especiallly when he shoved me. I came in my pants.

It had nothing to do with self-hate and everything to do with wanting to get his load into my mouth at almost any cost. Teen lust, plain and simple.

BTW I agree with what you say about labels. It's like trying to abridge War And Peace so it fits in a fortune cookie.

 

[boybangkokboy]

I find the idea of straight men who are willing to have sex with other men a big turn-on. To me it means that in the end, almost anyone I have a crush on can be persuaded, either through $, alcohol, circumstances, whatever ..

 

[Claudio63]

No problem with me. I'd also have to bitch about how easy it is to get a guy in the sack as portrayed by gay porn, condoms appearing out of nowhere, only good-looking and hung guys scoring, etc. But it's porn, not documentary filmmaking.

 

[tbonez]

dominating a straight one is even more of a turn-on because it (fantasy-wise) involves even more power and control.

Hell yes! Actually not any more, but when I was a teen... Straight guys got (get) off on knowing you have something you REALLY want.

Sex is often enhanced when there is a power struggle...When you are not in love with the guy IMO

I figure it's one reason SOME straight guys do j/o vids. They get boned thinking about gays guys drooling over them.

 

[wentworth]

My thoughts exactly!! Really straight guys (and there are some, just as there are men who are really and truly gay) don't go anywhere near cocks and buttholes, and especially not for money on camera. My two cents.

That is simply not true.
Straight men have sex in prison all the time--for free.
And it's not as if they don't enjoy it either.

So, it's not farfetched that they could do it for money. Although many "straight" pornstars may be gay, there are enough of them that are not.

People here have a weird conception of straight men (and it's funny, but this perception is actually the reason why this kind of porn is so popular).
Many gay men have had sex with women for all sorts of reasons other than they "liked it".
Sexual orientation (and you all should know this) has nothing to do with who you choose to have sex with, but rather to whom you are most ("naturally") sexually aroused more often than not.

Therefore, while culturally, most guys won't have sex with other guys, it is hardly because "society tells them so" (and boy do gays on this board looooove that argument). It is primarily because they genuinely are not aroused by other men.

All it takes for sexual stimulation, however, is mechanics (and maybe a little psychology). That is why straight men can have gay sex.
It is not a physical impossibility and so it happens.

And just as an aside, for those "confused" about this type pf porn(are you really?):
"Straight boy" porn like Sean Cody and Corbin Fisher isn't so successful simply because the director/websites say the models/actors are "straight". The models themselves must also appear to be straight, and it is the appearance (real or feigned) that is the selling point. Yes, guys, the good old "acting" straight that people hate to discuss. There is more to "manhood" than anatomy (because both "gay" and straight men have the same parts), and that "more" is what sells.

"Frat"men is so named to deliberately conjure up a certain image. What makes a "frat" man different to any other type of man? (hint: it's not parties, gays have those too).

 

[wentworth]

P.S. This is for the intellectually mature/secure:


A good read is this excerpt from J. Michael Bailey's controversial book found here:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0309084180/ref=pd_ecc_rvi_2/002-7925974-5898420?n=283155
The Man Who Would Be Queen: The Science of Gender-Bending and Transsexualism

Here is a link to the excerpt:
http://www.psych.northwestern.edu/psych/people/faculty/bailey/femiphobia.htm

He calls it "femiphobia".

There he covers the "masculinity" debate among gays with surprising clarity. He does not hold back, and it makes people mad. I like science that makes people mad--it's great fun to look at.

Anyway, excerpt:
"Earlier in this chapter I suggested that having been mistreated as feminine boys is not the only reason gay men tend to react uncomfortably to the implication that they are, or used to be, feminine. The other reason, which I hope is now obvious, is that gay men themselves dislike femininity, or at least they find it sexually unattractive. To call a gay man "feminine" is not only to say that he is a target of many straight men's ill will, but also that he is less attractive than he would be otherwise. It is certainly an unfortunate state of affairs that gay men tend to be feminine, tend to be less attracted to femininity, but tend to be stuck with each other. There are similar ironies in straight relationships."

That goes a long way in explaining "gay for pay".

 

[kornpone]

To quote the GayProf from his blogsite Centerhttp://centerofgravitas.blogspot.com/2006/02/its-about-porn.html:


Many forms of gay porn actually start with the premise that gay men aren’t desirable enough for our sexual enjoyment. Rather, it’s straight men who become the alleged holy grail in gay eroticism. An entire genre of “amateur” internet businesses have developed around filming straight guys for gay consumption. One such site declares to its potential subscribers, “We’ve all seen them: those incredibly hot straight men.” It presumes that the unattainable straight men figures centrally in all gay men’s fantasies. How, oh, how can gay men be content without knowing what these straight boys do alone?

Fortunately for us, the site gives a solution by claiming that it offers “the chance to get to know these men in the up close and personal way you have always wanted to.” Why bother looking for gay men when we can spy on straight boys? Of course, most of these men’s straightness proves dubious beyond their porn appearances. That’s not the point, though.

The emphasis on straight men as “forbidden” in porn consumption only upholds the dominance of heterosexual men in our society. I am not saying we should never find straight boys attractive. We are gay men, after all, and are going to find men physically attractive regardless of their sexuality. There are also more of them than us -- allegedly.

There is a difference to me, however, between finding some men who happen to be straight attractive and eroticizing straight men. When straight men’s sexuality becomes the central element that we are supposed to find attractive I begin to get nervous.

More than simple tools of pleasure, porn plays a role in determining who is valuable and desirable in our social context. The “straight-cam” genre invites gay men into worlds where straight men always excluded us. Focusing on fantasies of the unattainable straight man promotes the idea that gay men are not worth watching have sex, much less actually having sex. Rather, being competent, sexy, and powerful means being straight (and usually white) in porn. These technicolor fantasies offer men who are no more gay than George W. Bush and we are supposed to lust after them.

 

[bma1983]

That is simply not true.
Straight men have sex in prison all the time--for free.
And it's not as if they don't enjoy it either.

I don't agree with that. Str8 men are raped in prison by other men who want to show that they are in control.
The idea that just because no women are around men will resort to other men for sexual gratification is stupid. Would a gay stuck on an island with a beautiful woman sleep with her just because he's horny? Would any sane man on a deserted island sleep with his pet dog because he's horny?

 

[blueto21]

I don't agree with that. Str8 men are raped in prison by other men who want to show that they are in control.
The idea that just because no women are around men will resort to other men for sexual gratification is stupid. Would a gay stuck on an island with a beautiful woman sleep with her just because he's horny? Would any sane man on a deserted island sleep with his pet dog because he's horny?

Once again, bma1983 we’re thinking alike. I agree 100%. These guys aren’t straight. You go boy!

 

[kornpone]

I have a theory about guys who are "gay for pay."

You can get money from any job you can think of. Waiting tables, running a cash register at a grocery store, etc.

Even porn where guys have sex with women.

So when guys have sex with guys for pay, I think the part where they say, "I need the money," is bullshit.

There are a million ways to make money and none of them involve sex with other guys.

I think what they really need is man to man contact and intimacy.

And they think it's okay when they do it "for money" because they can use it as an excuse.

I don't buy it though.

Guys who have sex with guys for money are still -- guys who have sex with guys.

The money is just an added coercion.

 

[wentworth]

I don't agree with that. Str8 men are raped in prison by other men who want to show that they are in control.
The idea that just because no women are around men will resort to other men for sexual gratification is stupid. Would a gay stuck on an island with a beautiful woman sleep with her just because he's horny? Would any sane man on a deserted island sleep with his pet dog because he's horny?

Not all sex in prison is rape. Rape is indeed about control, but there are other ways to exert control (we see this more often than sex in prison; it's called "violence").
Yes, sex-starvation is real and happens in prison, where there is literally nothing to do at all.
Any out gay man in prison will tell you, the pressure for sex/sexual favors is huge.

Straight man sex sells not because of some (dubious but well-worn) "wanting what you can't have" nonsense. "Internalized homophobia" (even more well-worn) isn't it either. It is simply because straight men are more masculine than gay men in general (and are usually seen as the epitome of manliness). This serves to distinguish such porn from others out there (where masculinity is not the criving factor).
There are many things that can be used to sell porn; masculinity is one of them (tell me you don't know why...)

 

[tbonez]

There are a million ways to make money and none of them involve sex with other guys.

I think what they really need is man to man contact and intimacy.

Really? So you think that all those skanky crack-whores on the curb are "just looking for intimacy"?? Get real!

If you think their are jobs for everyone who needs money you have obviously never been to Flint Michigan. If you are a highschool drop-out, selling your ass may be the only "job opportunity" there is. Unemployment in certain demographics in many US cities is around 40%.

For men, prostitution with female customers is a VERY limited market. There is always some desperate guy who will pay $$$ to molest some down-on-his-luck street kid.

I think this kind of porn is the bottom-feeder part of the 'industry'. It further victimizes desperate people who are dying for their next fix or have to pay the rent or move onto the street.

My two cents.

 

[tbonez]

What is not being inserted this dark discussion is the presence or absence of social mores or the perception of the presence of social mores..

I was trying to bridge that facet.

Prison sex is not only about power and dominance but about behaviors in the absence of the outside world's mores..

Exactly. Even a dime-store-whore like me knows sex isn't always about that warm squishy feeling.

My main point, (and yes, I do think I have one!) is that there is a seamy side to SOME porn. Not all porn 'stars' are professionals with agents looking out for their best interests. Some porn is pure unadulterated opportunism and victimization. I personally don't find that very sexy at all.

P.S. Man, you Americans have some funny ways of spelling some words!

 

[tbonez]

Behaviours then.


Happy?

Thrilled just to bits!

"I could never stand a man who could only spell a word one way."

Mark Twain (Southerner, author, cocksucker...All good!)