Gay Obama-haters

[ABoyNamedSue]

Who can forget Boy George's cod piece when he landed on the deck of the air craft carrier? That is a hell of a stage prop.

 

[01solara]

I grew up working class, northern and white. My family is full of white trash. We've had more than our share of alcoholics, heroin addicts, etc. I worked and put myself through college and law school. I am successful through lots of hard work and smarts. And I'm smart enough to recognize that Palin is an intellectual midget. And if you would allow your intellect to override your extreme partisanship, you'd recognize that, in the long run, Palin is the worst thing that happened to the Republican Party. Don't take my word for it, take the word of all the conservative intellectuals who agree with me, like Peggy Noonan, David Frum, David Brooks, etc. The Republicans succeeded under Reagan because they had ideas.

I hate the Republicans, but don't think their collapse as a party is a healthy thing for our democracy. It will only tempt the Democrats to be intellectually lazy, arrogant and ineffective in the long run.

I also find it interesting that you are Southern and so anti-FDR and the New Deal. Don't you realize that FDR is responsible for much of the economic advancements the south made. Prior to the New Deal, half of southerners didn't have electricity (ever hear of the Tennessee Valley Authority?). Most people didn't have telephones, malnutrition and ignorance was rampant. The New Deal ushered in a huge transfer of liberal, Northern tax dollars to the South that continues to this day. You are aware that there is a huge imbalance in the tax structure whereby federal tax dollars raised in states like New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Connecticut, California is spent in Southern states. It wouldn't hurt you to say thank you. But for Northern tax dollars spent since the New Deal your company wouldn't be viable because there wouldn't be the basic infrastructure for it to operate.

I am not old enough to have lived under FDR. I live in decent sized city and there was plenty of electricity here before FDR. That said I did grow up rural and my dad remembered life before electricity. The first house I remember living did not have running water or an indoor bathroom and that was in the late 60's. Getting electricity was a good thing the monstrous government that came with it, not so good. Democrats in FDR's day were not anything like the modern democrat party there was a time when being liberal was a good thing. That time has passed along with most of the greatest generation. American politics has been contentious and nasty from the very beginning but back then liberal or conservative most people loved their country and fought for it even in Hollywood. I am trying to imagine anyone in modern Hollywood that would quit a lucrative acting career and go fight for his country the way Jimmy Stewart did. Do you see Tom Cruise or Alec Baldwin volunteering for the military? The new deal did not solve the depression. That was done by world war 2. The country made it through the depression in spite of not because of the new deal. We were much more a manufacturing and agricultural nation back then. People knew how to make things in my family they grew all their food including meat. They built their own houses and barns with the help of neighbors and friends. My grandmother bought her first store bought dress after she turned 70 and it was a really big deal for her. As for any money you contributed to electrifying the south you have my sincere thanks. Does that make you feel better? We might not have been so primitive if the northern generals hadn't tried to burn the whole thing down. Or even if the idiot Booth hadn't shot Lincoln things would have probably been better. That's all history now but it definitely has an impact on things today.

 

[ABoyNamedSue]

My grandmother grew up in rural West Texas. She has lived her entire life within 15 miles of the place where she was born. She had 13 brothers sisters. They had a family farm. Of the 13 brothers and sisters only one of them was born in a hospital. All of the boys in family served in WWII and one of the sisters. They were resourceful and ingenius. A waste not mentality, a true respect for the vaule of a dollar, active members in the community they lived in. It is no wonder that this Generation is often referred to as the Greatest Generation.

As a child it was stressed to me more than any thing else the importance of an education, the value of work and the value of a dollar, that family was of paramount importance, and that civic invovlement was not optional. That you had to be an active participant in the community that you belong to more than waking up every morning, going to work, and coming home and going to bed.

She may have had her prefrence of who I campaigned for, what church I belonged to, who I volunteered for, and all of that, but she was not disappointed. The only way I could have disappointed her was not to be active.

She bought American even if it was more expensive, she bought from independly owned businesses even if it was more expensive. She really could not afford to, but she realized once the dollar left the community it was gone for good. She is going on 80 now, and she has worked every day of her life. She doesn't have to, she wants to. She is involved in her community she sees it as a have to not as a burden.

There are any number of lessons we could learn from the Greatest Generation, but unforunately as time passes on so do they. People my age should ask there grand parnets or great grand parnets if they are foruante enough to have them still what life is like then and how it is changed.

 

[palemale]

I am not old enough to have lived under FDR. I live in decent sized city and there was plenty of electricity here before FDR. That said I did grow up rural and my dad remembered life before electricity. The first house I remember living did not have running water or an indoor bathroom and that was in the late 60's. Getting electricity was a good thing the monstrous government that came with it, not so good. Democrats in FDR's day were not anything like the modern democrat party there was a time when being liberal was a good thing. That time has passed along with most of the greatest generation. American politics has been contentious and nasty from the very beginning but back then liberal or conservative most people loved their country and fought for it even in Hollywood. I am trying to imagine anyone in modern Hollywood that would quit a lucrative acting career and go fight for his country the way Jimmy Stewart did. Do you see Tom Cruise or Alec Baldwin volunteering for the military? The new deal did not solve the depression. That was done by world war 2. The country made it through the depression in spite of not because of the new deal. We were much more a manufacturing and agricultural nation back then. People knew how to make things in my family they grew all their food including meat. They built their own houses and barns with the help of neighbors and friends. My grandmother bought her first store bought dress after she turned 70 and it was a really big deal for her. As for any money you contributed to electrifying the south you have my sincere thanks. Does that make you feel better? We might not have been so primitive if the northern generals hadn't tried to burn the whole thing down. Or even if the idiot Booth hadn't shot Lincoln things would have probably been better. That's all history now but it definitely has an impact on things today.

You're welcome. By the way, Northern generals wouldn't have burned down Southern cities if the South wasn't full of slave holding, treasonous bigots.

Can you imagine Dick "I had other priorities" Cheney volunteering for the military? How about Donald Rumsfeld? How about the other 100 chicken hawk Republicans who were so eager to lie our way into a war? I suppose it's a good thing Cheney dodged the draft, he can only shoot friendly old men in the face, not enemy combatants.

Kuli, I grew up less than 20 miles from Times Square and we had a party line (in the mid to late 1960s (when we had a phone). It just made the phone more affordable.

 

[Kulindahr]

As a child it was stressed to me more than any thing else the importance of an education, the value of work and the value of a dollar, that family was of paramount importance, and that civic invovlement was not optional. That you had to be an active participant in the community that you belong to more than waking up every morning, going to work, and coming home and going to bed.

There's something we lost. Reagan made a point of urging that on Americans, but I'm not sure how many he inspired to get involved. Dimwit Clinton thought that working for the government was being involved in the community. Bush II... I doubt he understood what "community" or "involvement" mean, let alone the two together.

Funny, I don't remember right wing Rhonnie Rheagan serving overseas, do you? I recall or seem to recall he got out of fighting by doctor-shopping his way out. Seems he so-called "found" (after much, much frantic,, nail-biting searching) a doctor who would so-called "write" a doctor's note saying Rhonnie had "bad eyesight" or some minor malady.

So right-wing Rhonnie was utterly thrilled to get his wish -- he stayed state-side (just as John Wayne did -- another Republican coward). He "played" war heroes while Democrat Jimmy Steward became one.

Did you know that, Solara? Shocking, isn't it?

Solara probably didn't know it because it isn't true. Your lies and spin about Reagan are getting tiresome.

According to documents already cited on this board, Reagan volunteered for the military and expected to go overseas. His eye problem was diagnosed by an Army doctor -- and I doubt Reagan had the rank or clout to manage to "shop" for a doctor in the Army! He obeyed orders and took his assignment to work in 'communications', which meant making [STRIKE]propaganda[/STRIKE] information films for the military.

You harp on how people who think we should be in Iraq should either sign up or shut up. On the topic of Reagan, the same goes for you: he signed up, and went where he was told. Until you sign up -- shut up.

 

[Kulindahr]

You're welcome. By the way, Northern generals wouldn't have burned down Southern cities if the South wasn't full of slave holding, treasonous bigots.

Just a note: those Southern bigots began freeing their slaves before the Emancipation Proclamation -- which was merely symbolic, actually.

Can you imagine Dick "I had other priorities" Cheney volunteering for the military? How about Donald Rumsfeld? How about the other 100 chicken hawk Republicans who were so eager to lie our way into a war? I suppose it's a good thing Cheney dodged the draft, he can only shoot friendly old men in the face, not enemy combatants.

I can imagine Rumsfeld volunteering for the military -- if he got to go straight to being a colonel at the Pentagon with a fast track to be on the Joint Chiefs.
I can't imagine Cheney volunteering for anything that didn't allow him to lie, spin, manipulate, and ruthlessly advance his career at the expense of anyone and everyone around him.

Kuli, I grew up less than 20 miles from Times Square and we had a party line (in the mid to late 1960s (when we had a phone). It just made the phone more affordable.

We didn't have any choice....

 

[01solara]

Jimmy Stewart was a proud and loyal Democrat.

Funny, I don't remember right wing Rhonnie Rheagan serving overseas, do you? I recall or seem to recall he got out of fighting by doctor-shopping his way out. Seems he so-called "found" (after much, much frantic,, nail-biting searching) a doctor who would so-called "write" a doctor's note saying Rhonnie had "bad eyesight" or some minor malady.

So right-wing Rhonnie was utterly thrilled to get his wish -- he stayed state-side (just as John Wayne did -- another Republican coward). He "played" war heroes while Democrat Jimmy Steward became one.]

So was Ronnie at the time he was a big fan of and inspired by FDR and his famous fireside chats. The Democrat party left both of them as well as John Wayne behind. The film community's contribution to morale at home during the war was not insignificant either. Your blind hatred of anything Reagan is clouding your judgment. You should open your mind a little bit there have been patriots and pinheads in both parties and probably always will be. I Know you will love the O'Reilly reference.

 

[01solara]

^ Look, you want to live in a land of make-believe. Fact is (and it pains me to say this) that Rhonnie did everything he could -- including doctor-shopping -- to get out of serving on the front. John Wayne went to even greater lengths -- he whined to his draft board that the economic cost of trading his toupee for a helmet would be too much for his family's brie-and-cheese lifestyle to bear. These are facts, not speculation (see Glenn Greenwald's "Great American Hypocrites: Toppling the Big Myths of Republican Politics").

It's very unbecoming, yet sadly typical, of right wingers to ignore the facts behind their so-called "leaders." You see, conservatism is based on Big Lies -- lots of lies. Without lies, there could be no so-called "conservative" movement -- take away the lies and all that stands are scared draft-dodgers and cultural misfits.]

So you think this wouldn't have come up in a campaign if it were really true. You think the Reagan hating press would have just sat on this. Besides Democrats are fine with draft dodgers anyway just as long as their last name is clinton and if they lie under oath so much the better.

 

[01solara]

^ Look, it is a fact that Reagan did not serve in combat, is it not? Or are you trying to pretend otherwise? It is also a fact that he went to multiple doctors to get the opinion he wanted. Now, as is typical with conservatives, you want to cloud these facts by burning your bra and claiming the non-existent "librual" media blah blah blah. Deal with the facts, that's my advice, even if it makes your head explode in frustration.

Reality, Sir, is a lot like Sarah "In What Respect, Charlieeeee?" Palin -- a real a bitch.

As to Bill Clinton, big diff -- you see, he wasn't a hypocrite like Joan Wayne. Joan Wayne did everything she could to avoid service YET he advocated for endless war. Billy was AGAINST the war and did not posture and pose like a three dollar queer whore, which is what Rhonnie and Joan did.

He didn't serve through political connections I don't think you would cut a Republican the same slack. He did not have time to posture he was too busy trying to stick his (according to his Jennifer Flowers) very small dick in every hole in Arkansas whether they wanted it or not don't forget the very believable rape charges leveled against him. He wanted to fuck every woman in sight except his own damn wife. Such a swell fellow. I grew up in Arkansas under his governance and his philandering was no secret now or then. The half of it hasn't been told.

 

[01solara]

^ I deal in documented facts and you traffic in gossip and bullshit. Figures -- I'm a liberal and you're a ah, ah, a so-called "conservative."

Anyway, got to get to work -- it helps pay down the Republican deficit.

787 billion minimum added to the deficit by Obama and the left wing nutjobs in congress. Why don't you start paying on that. All that went to the already rich fatcats on wall street who contrary to perception vote overwhelmingly democrat.. When you get done with that you can start paying for health care for all of the illegal mother f'n illegal immigrants that are flooding through the southern border and from arab countries that want us to change to their way of life. Send them all back. Maybe Americans can run gas stations too. Let them come legally or not at all. Don't pay them to have babies or for their babies to be born. Fine the shit of the companies that hire their illegal asses and take away federal pork from the cities that don't enforce current immigration laws. Don't let Acorn's corrupt ass register another voter period. Require all voters to present a state issued picture id and cut off voter registration 60 days before an election and take that 60 days to make sure that newly registered voters are legal. Come up with a better absentee system and actually count the votes on election day. Standardize election equipment for the entire country and make sure poll workers are trained on how to use it. Set up recount standards that are uniform for all states and are enforced by nonpartisan independent election monitors that are well qualified and trained. Change election day from Thursday to Saturday and Sunday so more working people have a chance to vote. The current system is beyond corrupt on both sides and it has to change. We have all this new technology and use stone age voting machines in way too many places. There isn't a single problem in this country that we can't solve if we get the fucking politicians who serve their own interest and not that of the country out. You might have noticed who won't be included in the Union of the Socialist United States health care program. That's right boys and girls our congress and president and his staff. If it is all so damn perfect why don't they try it first and see if it works before they fuck up the whole country. While we are at it let's have congress and the president earn no more than the median us income. Tie their salaries to the salary of the people and cut out every expense account, travel included. Don't pay for their offices, houses or cars either. No more free lunch for the professional political class let them serve for love of country and give them nothing in return but the satisfaction of a job well done. Then maybe the people that are left might have the best interest of the country at heart because now it is only about their self interest. I recently spent a couple hours reading about the abuses of Duke Cunningham and William Jefferson and it should make everyone sick to their stomach. If things don't change it will soon be time to take to the streets of Washington D.C. with tractors and pitchforks and root the sorry bastards out and I mean every last one of their crooked asses. The time for allegiance to party over country has passed.

 

[01solara]

^ I deal in documented facts and you traffic in gossip and bullshit. Figures -- I'm a liberal and you're a ah, ah, a so-called "conservative."

Anyway, got to get to work -- it helps pay down the Republican deficit.

Unfortunately the Obama jobs program is taking unemployment back to the Carter years so work while you can. We need to fire all the unelected czars while were at it. We have a house and senate that is supposed to study the problems, write legislation to correct them and send them to the president to be signed. Let's start doing this shit the way it is supposed to be done.

 

[01solara]

^ A direct result of the Bush-Republican recession, which started nineteen months ago.

Look, I enjoy hyperbole as much as anyone but the fact -- the undisputable reality -- is that this fucked up economy is the direct result of Bush's catastrophic tax and spending policies. Let's not forget that America lost 500,000 jobs in January alone, a month in which, you know, Obama was president for 11 days.

Now, I expect Republicans to dispute this, but also recall that when the internet bubble burst and the economy went into recession in March 2001, Karl Rove et al all said it was Clinton's recession, so you cannot have it both ways. This recession is a Republican recession, the worst since the Great Depression which was also, you know, a product of fucked up Republican economic policies.

Why is it that whenever we have a Republican president the economy turns to shit? Were I to make a guess, I'd say they haven't Clue One as to how to run complex systems and they also tend to rape and pillage the national nest to feather their own.]

Once again there are plenty of featherers to go around on both sides. Both parties got is in this mess. Who will get us out? Democrats controlled the congress for forty years and the results were stagflation and a grossly undertrained and underequipped military. This is exactly where we are headed again. There has to be a better way.

 

[JB3]

Soon it will start paying for itself, as that is money that is actually invested in this country, and not arbitrarily thrown at ousting one of the worlds many dictators.

Actually, its eating away at the financial output of many companies and individuals in the US. It will permanently cripple our national financial output, per the CBO.

 

[Kulindahr]

^ Look, you want to live in a land of make-believe. Fact is (and it pains me to say this) that Rhonnie did everything he could -- including doctor-shopping -- to get out of serving on the front. John Wayne went to even greater lengths -- he whined to his draft board that the economic cost of trading his toupee for a helmet would be too much for his family's brie-and-cheese lifestyle to bear. These are facts, not speculation (see Glenn Greenwald's "Great American Hypocrites: Toppling the Big Myths of Republican Politics").

Just how does one go "doctor shopping" in the military? You don't -- can't even do it these days, when the military is far more liberal and flexible than it used to be.

It's been said before, but I'll remind you: there's enough to trash Reagan on without making shit up and lying about him.

 

[JB3]

I love these totally unsubstantiated wingnut conservative broad sweeping smears of utter crap.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/feb/04/cbo-obama-stimulus-harmful-over-long-haul/

The CBO is not a group of wingnuts.

 

[Kulindahr]

Anyway, got to get to work -- it helps pay down the Republican deficit.

The Republican deficit, which Obama is aiming at more than doubling.

Soon it will start paying for itself, as that is money that is actually invested in this country, and not arbitrarily thrown at ousting one of the worlds many dictators.

That didn't work in Japan -- the very same infrastructure-targeted "stimulus" approach was done there in the 90s, and it gave them a decade of economic doldrums -- which didn't end till the government just stopped meddling.

Though I certainly agree it's better than throwing it at ousting a dictator... who at least kept his country somewhat stable -- and now we're paying for the turmoil we triggered.

I got to witness one (predicted) result of this stimulus business: a local government got some (trickle-down) stimulus money for fixing roads. Well, it seems that thanks to stimulus money, lots of roads are being fixed, which meant that none of the people who really knew what they were doing were left to do these roads. The new pavement looks nice, but it would be easier to drive on if it didn't have creases and ridges....

Another result is that some people are going to get quite wealthy: my home town got some stimulus money to do some highway improvements originally called for in like 1948. Lo and behold, property prices around there suddenly took a jump, and owners are making improvements -- all for the purpose of getting more out of the government when their property is bought to make room for the project. In fact, on multi-millionaire who owns a number of properties bought a nearly-condemned one and has opened a restaurant, in the full knowledge that the property will be bought for the highway project. He expects to make another million or so off the scheme.

On the up side, though, I've seen people who haven't held a regular job for ages out along the highways pushing brooms to sweep for resurfacing, or holding flags to point out detours, and that sort of thing. I wonder, though, how well they'll handle the jump from living on welfare and food stamps to making $36/hour beginning wages....

 

[Kulindahr]

Just for flavor here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPF9...arody-just-tax/31060/&feature=player_embedded

 

[jasonze]

I can't say I hate Obama but I feel he could make stronger decisions and be less full of hot air.

 

[Kulindahr]

^ Just passing on what was in the Wall Street Journal... and numerous other places.

BTW, I wouldn't mind some deflation at all -- how about enough to get the spending power of my disability check back to where it started?

 

[Mariatenebre]

Are you saying a human baby is not a life and a body?

Sad.

A human baby is a life and a body a fetus is something very different. Point in fact a fetus only gain sentience late in the womb. A fetus is at best a pre baby or the building blocks of a baby with the intelligence of a broom stick.
"It isn't until week 23 that the fetus can survive, albeit with major medical support, outside of the womb. It is not until then that the fetus possesses a sustainable human brain."
This quote is from wikipedia so obviously life does not begin at conception as you right wingers state but very late in the womb. As that is the time that the baby gains becomes a sentient life form which is what constitutes life to begin with. Besides we all know that you are only anti choice on white babies in your attempt to keep women bare foot and pregnant but I bet you could care less about non white fetuses/embryos/potential lives.