Gay Obama-haters

[Kulindahr]

A human baby is a life and a body a fetus is something very different. Point in fact a fetus only gain sentience late in the womb. A fetus is at best a pre baby or the building blocks of a baby with the intelligence of a broom stick.
"It isn't until week 23 that the fetus can survive, albeit with major medical support, outside of the womb. It is not until then that the fetus possesses a sustainable human brain."
This quote is from wikipedia so obviously life does not begin at conception as you right wingers state but very late in the womb. As that is the time that the baby gains becomes a sentient life form which is what constitutes life to begin with. Besides we all know that you are only anti choice on white babies in your attempt to keep women bare foot and pregnant but I bet you could care less about non white fetuses/embryos/potential lives.

Odd that you argue sentience as a foundation for when life begins, but employ a quote that refers to viability.

 

[Mariatenebre]

Odd that you argue sentience as a foundation for when life begins, but employ a quote that refers to viability.

The quote also refers to when the child has a functioning brain, through most of the pregnancy the baby has as much intelligence as paste. This is the time when the brain has become fully developed and the child not has a functioning mind.

I think it would be a more compelling argument to say that while the fetus is biologically dependent on the host (mother), that she can do as she damn well pleases. But then again, I don't argue for frivolous abortion rights, since I also believe in the opportunity for the fetus to be born and live out life.

The mother's wellfare supercedes a potential life. It is evil to force a woman to have a child she does not want, can not raise and can not provide for. I don't believe in frivolous abortion rights either, there is a limit but life certainly does not begin at the "moment of conception" as anti choicers tell us.

 

[Kulindahr]

The quote also refers to when the child has a functioning brain, through most of the pregnancy the baby has as much intelligence as paste. This is the time when the brain has become fully developed and the child not has a functioning mind.

"As much intelligence as paste" -- awesome turn of phrase!
I'm gonna have to try to remember that one.

The mother's wellfare supercedes a potential life. It is evil to force a woman to have a child she does not want, can not raise and can not provide for. I don't believe in frivolous abortion rights either, there is a limit but life certainly does not begin at the "moment of conception" as anti choicers tell us.

Even the Bible -- to which 'pro-lifers' appeal frequently -- does not support a "moment of conception" definition.

 

[Mariatenebre]

"As much intelligence as paste" -- awesome turn of phrase!
I'm gonna have to try to remember that one.



Even the Bible -- to which 'pro-lifers' appeal frequently -- does not support a "moment of conception" definition.

Your right hell in the bible I don't even think it believes that life begins after birth. I mean just ask David and Bathsheeba's child or the male children killed by the Israelites in genocide or those children mauled by a bear after Elisha cursed them for simply laughing at his bald head.

 

[Just_Believe18]

I'm a white supremecist, so I don't mind being called a "Reich"-winger.

You claim life is sacred, yet you identify with the Third Reich, the most monstrous affront to life that ever existed. They murdered people by the millions, of all races, even of their own skin color. They hated homosexuals, you, and were responsible for the deaths of 15,000 gay men and women.

You have no integrity, dignity, or self-respect as a human being.

You are not a man, but a coward: a fool who thinks the pigment in his skin means more than the reflection of light passing through his eyes.

 

[MisterMajestic]

If you are a Non-Believer in the word of God then so be it...But ALL Believers in the Word know that God knew you before you were formed in your mothers womb....

If you read the Bible you will find the passage in Jeremiah 1:5...

 

[Kulindahr]

If you are a Non-Believer in the word of God then so be it...But ALL Believers in the Word know that God knew you before you were formed in your mothers womb....

If you read the Bible you will find the passage in Jeremiah 1:5...

So?

That says absolutely nothing about when the organism in the womb becomes a human being. For that matter, it doesn't say anything about when an entity known as "you" comes into being; what it does say is a lot about God not being bound by time.

A human being, in the Bible's definition, is body and spirit. Before there's a body, there's no human being -- and thus the statement is about God's knowledge extending across time.

 

[Kulindahr]

Your right hell in the bible I don't even think it believes that life begins after birth. I mean just ask David and Bathsheeba's child or the male children killed by the Israelites in genocide or those children mauled by a bear after Elisha cursed them for simply laughing at his bald head.

LOL

Well, there was a bit of misbehavior, but that hardly defines the issue.

There are too many mentions connecting life with the womb to say anything but that it begins there. OTOH, there isn't any sufficient statement to pin down just when. The best we can do is reason it out from the principle that man is body and spirit.

 

[Kulindahr]

You claim life is sacred, yet you identify with the Third Reich, the most monstrous affront to life that ever existed. They murdered people by the millions, of all races, even of their own skin color. They hated homosexuals, you, and were responsible for the deaths of 15,000 gay men and women.

You have no integrity, dignity, or self-respect as a human being.

You are not a man, but a coward: a fool who thinks the pigment in his skin means more than the reflection of light passing through his eyes.

If I were a billionaire, I'd be temped to fund a team to come up with a virus that would turn everyone a deep, deep golden-brown color.

or maybe something like this:

 

[orryyon]

I say give him a year before you judge...

 

[Mariatenebre]

If you are a Non-Believer in the word of God then so be it...But ALL Believers in the Word know that God knew you before you were formed in your mothers womb....

If you read the Bible you will find the passage in Jeremiah 1:5...

Sorry hun but that verse says nothing about life beginning in conception. It speaks of God's omnipotence. Next science supercedes the Bible and the science proves that life does not begin at conception. So I suggest you read a science text not the Bible when checking Biology.

But does it?

The child already exists, some say it is irrelevant whether it is on the inside or outside. There is nothing you can do about it without making a morally questionable decision.

Yes it does the child does not exist a fetus exists and that is a potential child, with as much no intelligence of sentience. There is no morally questionable descison to make as it is her descision and her rights are the one that matters. The only thing morally questionable is forceing a woman to have a child that she does not want.

 

[kallipolis]

That is actually not true. The child's consciousness and intelligence is not somehow switched on only after emergence from the womb.



I hold that it is a morally questionable decision to both abort and force a woman to have a child she cannot provide the means to have .

A child unwanted by its mother can be easily placed for adoption. There are many childless couples in desperate need of a child.

 

[kallipolis]

It's actually hard to place a child for adoption. There are 510,000 children in the United States in need of a permanent home.

This difficulty should not justify the killing of an unborn baby.

In Europe childless couples are in dire need of children.

Madonna might assist?

 

[Kulindahr]

Sorry hun but that verse says nothing about life beginning in conception. It speaks of God's omnipotence. Next science supercedes the Bible and the science proves that life does not begin at conception. So I suggest you read a science text not the Bible when checking Biology.

That's overstating the reach of science -- when life begins still depends on one's premises.
It's just that scientifically (and biblically!) the strongest case is that human personhood begins when the mind is that of a human.

A child unwanted by its mother can be easily placed for adoption. There are many childless couples in desperate need of a child.

That is so true!

When I was in Lutherans for Life, we agonized over not having the resources to aid with adoptions; providing checks to assist with birth expenses and more was all we could do, ourselves; beyond that, we pointed mothers to agencies, and occasionally worked with agencies.

It's actually hard to place a child for adoption. There are 510,000 children in the United States in need of a permanent home.

That's true, BUT it's easy to get an infant adopted. The ones that are difficult are those who are already in school, especially those with ages already in double digits. While there are half a million kids in need of a permanent home, there could be nearly that many infants or toddlers adopted every year.

We really need a program where people who want an infant can contract to pay the expenses of a pregnant woman with a baby she doesn't want to keep.

 

[kallipolis]

That's overstating the reach of science -- when life begins still depends on one's premises.
It's just that scientifically (and biblically!) the strongest case is that human personhood begins when the mind is that of a human.



That is so true!

When I was in Lutherans for Life, we agonized over not having the resources to aid with adoptions; providing checks to assist with birth expenses and more was all we could do, ourselves; beyond that, we pointed mothers to agencies, and occasionally worked with agencies.



That's true, BUT it's easy to get an infant adopted. The ones that are difficult are those who are already in school, especially those with ages already in double digits. While there are half a million kids in need of a permanent home, there could be nearly that many infants or toddlers adopted every year.

We really need a program where people who want an infant can contract to pay the expenses of a pregnant woman with a baby she doesn't want to keep.

Catholic support organisations are already deeply involved in providing this valuable service. Pre natal and post natal expenses are paid by the Catholic support groups, and the adoption process is undertaken by the support group. I believe that there is also a lump sum payment for the mother as a further incentive to carry the baby to full term.