Gay + Republican = "I'm not just some fag!"

[Sbaraglia]

I am a civilian employee at a law enforcement agency; yesterday, one of the officers told me that he and his wife were very strongly against Prop 8, and had voted against it. He went on to say that he had voted for Obama, the first time he had voted for a Democrat for president. He said that although he is conservative on military and economic issues, he is moderate on social issues and he has come to feel in recent years that the Republican party has become so extreme that he can no longer consider himself a member. This guy is not only a cop, but is a veteran who served in combat in Iraq (he also feels that the Democrats are more supportive of veterans), a member of the department's scuba team, and a general all-around stud. He has no insecurities that he needs to make up for.

This got me thinking about gays here at JUB who never waver in their defense of the GOP, and who continually proclaim their scorn for Democrats.

I suspect that these folks are very uncomfortable with being gay. To them, being a Republican is a way of saying, "I'm not just some fag!" To them, being a Democrat would make them feel like a gay cliche. Being a Republican makes them feel apart from the gays they fear: they have internalized the gay caricature that bigots have created, and they resist as strongly as they can becoming that caricature. Sadly, the caricature is just a phantom designed to stir fear and hatred and contempt, and these gay men have bought into a false image of their own community.

If Sarah Palin is the presidential nominee in 2012, and chooses Tom Coburn as her running mate, and if they promise to pass a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage, gay adoption, and gay service in the military, these gay jubbers will still defend the party and its nominees; and no matter how well Obama performs in the next four years, they will not be able to give up this crutch that allows them to see themselves as different from - as better than - the caricature queer that they view with contempt.

 

[sixthson]

I don't believe in blind allegiance to a political party. We need to take to task those whom we support as much, if not more, than those we oppose. It makes them and us better people.

 

[Shafted]

The way I rationalize it is that maybe some gay people are voting their economic interests and aren't nearly as in sync with gay issues and agendas as you'd like them to be.

You know what? That's okay.
There's no real certainty that they tow the GOP line as it currently exists today.
I can't imagine, otherwise, why there'd be black Republicans other than a particular segment of the population is voting based on personal interests as opposed to generalized issues.

My kid brother is a 20-something millionaire, and only one issue turned him away from Obama, and that was taxes. He eventually voted Obama when he decided to sit down and take a look at how each campaign was being run. He decided that paying more taxes in order to never see Palin's face or hear her voice again would be worth it.

 

[future_boy]

I hate people who have blind devotion to anything and won't question it.

 

[aijalon18]

I agree with the OP for some people. But like others have said some are just into Republicanism because of money. A lot of others are just from Republican families and just stick to it. Like Super-Christian gays who stick to their religion because it's what they know.

 

[chance1]

I am a civilian employee at a law enforcement agency; yesterday, one of the officers told me that he and his wife were very strongly against Prop 8, and had voted against it. He went on to say that he had voted for Obama, the first time he had voted for a Democrat for president. He said that although he is conservative on military and economic issues, he is moderate on social issues and he has come to feel in recent years that the Republican party has become so extreme that he can no longer consider himself a member. This guy is not only a cop, but is a veteran who served in combat in Iraq (he also feels that the Democrats are more supportive of veterans), a member of the department's scuba team, and a general all-around stud. He has no insecurities that he needs to make up for.

This got me thinking about gays here at JUB who never waver in their defense of the GOP, and who continually proclaim their scorn for Democrats.

I suspect that these folks are very uncomfortable with being gay. To them, being a Republican is a way of saying, "I'm not just some fag!" To them, being a Democrat would make them feel like a gay cliche. Being a Republican makes them feel apart from the gays they fear: they have internalized the gay caricature that bigots have created, and they resist as strongly as they can becoming that caricature. Sadly, the caricature is just a phantom designed to stir fear and hatred and contempt, and these gay men have bought into a false image of their own community.

If Sarah Palin is the presidential nominee in 2012, and chooses Tom Coburn as her running mate, and if they promise to pass a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage, gay adoption, and gay service in the military, these gay jubbers will still defend the party and its nominees; and no matter how well Obama performs in the next four years, they will not be able to give up this crutch that allows them to see themselves as different from - as better than - the caricature queer that they view with contempt.

u were going great there until "i suspect ................."

then u went over the edge

too bad really

pretending to know when u don't - cuz of course u can't

but u will judge anyway

i would answer some of ur points but u lost me at "i suspect"

so i won't

and of course the pile on from the all knowing is present here too

funny how gays want str8s to not judge them - be so judgemental

and here's the poster doing exactly that

with gays piling on

is that irony?

or hypocrisy?

or just plain stupidity

 

[soccerboy029]

I can't call myself a democrat or a republican because I have things that go back and forth across the table. There are times when other issues trump my sexuality, and I am more than comfortable saying that.

 

[TX-Beau]

Why gay men vote republican.

I basically agree that the SA/SA crowd are pretty much paranoid about being gay, and overcompensate with posturing and attitude. Somehow Republicanism is equated with manly men who are proud of how many deer they shot while drunk, sitting in their heated blind, right in front of the feeder.

Then there are the blatantly greedy who don’t care about civil liberties a long as the cash keeps coming in.

Then there are the bigoted asswipes who want to participate in the full spectrum of right wing hatred – just not that gay one, if they’re out, and the gay one too if they’re closet cases.

Then there are the gay men who just want to be accepted, who think my Great Aunt Eunice’s idea of respectable is far more important than freedom.

There are the religiously tortured, the deluded, the misogynists – who equate gayness with being a girl, and the guys who just like to be contrary.

Lots of overlap there, but basically if you’re going to support a party that has stated as a plank in its platform that they oppose equality for you, you’re just a stooge and a fool. They will fight to take our rights now matter how much ass these guys smooch. If and when the Republicans come out of their long, dark night of the soul, I’ll cut them some slack. But until then, they continue to pander to the worst in our society, the narrow, the ignorant, the violent, and the punitively self-righteous.

There are a lot of issues about which I am personally more conservative than liberal, but you wouldn’t catch me dead voting Republican - because while there may be some things more important than my sexuality –there’s nothing more important than my equality.

 

[chance1]

^ seems like u got it all covered - figured out

didn't realize that one could judge others w/o an examination much less not knowing or meeting them

scary times on JUB

 

[Spensed]

To repeat. Many gay Republicans are just Republican about it. Some one else achieved their existing civil rights for them, they're happy with what they have and fuck the gay couple who want to adopt kids.

Some gay Republicans agree with Republicans on other issues and think they can work within the party to get change on gay issues. While it's true that the more educated Republicans don't care about gays and are sympathetic to them, nothing's going to change while the religious right is such a large source of votes.

Many gay Republicans think other issues have a higher priority and see voting for someone because they support gay civil rights as a single issue decision. That's a slightly more benign version of the I'm-OK-And-You're-On-Your-Own attitude. Plus it doesn't factor in that how candidates respond to gay civil rights tells you a lot about how they are going to act in other area. No surprise that McCain shared Bush's punch-first-bring-'em-on foreign policy and wouldh have been be equally happy to tap your phone.

Many gay Republicans are simply in denial. They keep themselves ignorant of the specifics of the Republican opposition to gays and the Democrats support for them. It's surprising how many gay Republicans have no or little idea of the impact of having an anti-gay majority on the Supreme Court.

Also, on gay issues, many gay Republicans just vote against their own interestes. The Republican party is still great at getting people to do that. Look at all the folk who voted for George W. because, if they were ever rich, they wanted to maximize the tax breaks on the wealth they don't have, or because they thought Republicans are still about self-reponsibility, small government or whatever or because George W. was good guy to have drink with.

 

[jdoe4822]

I can't believe I actually find myself needing to answer or explain this. Believe it or not, there are other issues out there, and who I prefer sleep with does not by default switch my views on other issues. As a side note, embracing my homosexuality and freeing myself of my prior Christian obligations to turn the other cheek, forgive, love, and generally care about everyone everywhere has moved me farther to the right. I don't vote Republican out of some love for the GOP. I vote Republican because theirs are the candidates who generally espouse and support the conservative/libertarian values I believe in. If a Democrat came forward and agreed with the following, I'd be open to voting ofr him.

Allow me to say something shocking to help illustrate. I personally believe that George Bush has been too liberal. under bush we have seen a growth in government spending and entitlements, we saw the increase of CAFE, a failed half hearted effort to privatize social security, a drive toward granting amnesty to those who illegally enter and invade our country, and now, with the latest bailout package, an expansion of government meddling in the economy not seen since FDR.

Being gay doesn't mean I can't also believe that life begins at conception and to destroy it is murder, that human induced climate change is a myth, and that the right of a person to arm and defend himself is a fundamental one that has to be protected.

Ultimately though, for me, national security and who is most fit to be commander in chief is issue # 1. Barack Obama basically lost any chance of my voting for him in the first democratic debate when he and Hilary were asked what their 1st response would be if the U.S. was attacked within something like (don't remember the exact question) the first 24 hours of their admnistration.

To me, the president's main job is to keep me and this country safe from attack and aggressively pursue those who do go after it. If someone slaps us, punch them back. If they punch then stab back. If they stab, then shoot back. If they shoot, have a predator blast their car with a hellfire. If they fly airplanes into buildings, unleash the USAF and bomb them into the stone age. Hilary's response was the right on (God did I just say that?), saying we would RETALIATE. Obama gave a wishy-washy answer involving investigations and attempts to understand or something like that. His opposition to the surge, views on talks with Iran, and other foreign policy issues such as that didn't help him recover.

McCain was far from perfect, and anyone familiar with his positions will know that I found much to disagree with him on, and know my vote was reluctant. However, Obama was so far out in left field he made McCain quite an easy alternative to consider living with.

 

[Sbaraglia]

to the OP: how bout saving the wacked psychology for Sigmund Freud. Thanks.
Anyone that thinks sexual orientation defines what politics one believes in needs to get an education.
Alot of gay and bi people are in the closet specifically to avoid this kind of gay peer pressure and stereotyping. Do we all have to listen to Britney Spears and pray to Prada as well?

EXACTLY what I was talking about! Yup - gays all listen to Britney Spears and pray to Prada, but YOU aren't like that! Thanks for proving my point.

 

[Sbaraglia]

u were going great there until "i suspect ................."

then u went over the edge

too bad really

pretending to know when u don't - cuz of course u can't

but u will judge anyway

i would answer some of ur points but u lost me at "i suspect"

so i won't

and of course the pile on from the all knowing is present here too

funny how gays want str8s to not judge them - be so judgemental

and here's the poster doing exactly that

with gays piling on

is that irony?

or hypocrisy?

or just plain stupidity

dude

you make

no sense

which

explains

a

lot

 

[rottenj10]

God, how often does this come up? Just watch the "douche v turd" South Park episode and done with it, will you.

This is hard...but i mean, i guess i have to tell everyone... I'm pro free-trade. Like, really free-trade - i'm not curious, or i don't swing both ways, or flirt with protectionism just so society thinks I'm normal. I know, my parents might take a little while to adjust to it, and the government continually discriminates against me by putting all these "barriers" up, so I can't live my dream. And along comes a candidate who voted against a Central American FTA, who opposes FTAs with South Korea and Colombia, who wants further subsidies for farmers and for ethanol, who wants to restrict the importing of foreign oil. And who, to boot, wants tariffs against the Chinese too! No figure I don't vote against a man who just wants to discriminate against me.

You decry people who apparently vote Republica because of "stereotypes", but your post is precisely a symptom of the same kind of collectivist thinking (in a philosophical sense - I DON'T mean communism) - that the characteristics of a man is derived from a group to which they choose to belong.

 

[archive]

God, how often does this come up? Just watch the "douche v turd" South Park episode and done with it, will you.

This is hard...but i mean, i guess i have to tell everyone... I'm pro free-trade. Like, really free-trade - i'm not curious, or i don't swing both ways, or flirt with protectionism just so society thinks I'm normal. I know, my parents might take a little while to adjust to it, and the government continually discriminates against me by putting all these "barriers" up, so I can't live my dream. And along comes a candidate who voted against a Central American FTA, who opposes FTAs with South Korea and Colombia, who wants further subsidies for farmers and for ethanol, who wants to restrict the importing of foreign oil. And who, to boot, wants tariffs against the Chinese too! No figure I don't vote against a man who just wants to discriminate against me.

You decry people who apparently vote Republica because of "stereotypes", but your post is precisely a symptom of the same kind of collectivist thinking (in a philosophical sense - I DON'T mean communism) - that the characteristics of a man is derived from a group to which they choose to belong.

you know...you are one of the first republicans in this thread to just answer the question instead of attacking it....high five.....nice answer .....

 

[Zingerific]

Some gay Republicans agree with Republicans on other issues and think they can work within the party to get change on gay issues. While it's true that the more educated Republicans don't care about gays and are sympathetic to them, nothing's going to change while the religious right is such a large source of votes.

I agree. I can easily see how a gay person could be for free trade, free markets, a strong defense, pro life, etc., and believes they can eventually change the GOP gay positions from within (especially if they live in an area like New England where Republicans have always been more liberal than their bible-belt brethren). While I think this view is incorrect (and highly optimistic with regards to the religious right), I don't think it is emblematic of denial, self-hatred, unrepentant greed, or whatever.

I have long suspected that most gay Republicans are libertarian in their outlook and have failed to (or refuse to) recognize the hard shift towards big government in the GOP since Goldwater. That's probably why the "he's a socialist!" attacks on Obama didn't work; McCain was just as much for big government, just in a different way.

 

[rottenj10]

I agree. I can easily see how a gay person could be for free trade, free markets, a strong defense, pro life, etc., and believes they can eventually change the GOP gay positions from within....

Yeah I don't see how gay people could change the party 'from within'. The only thing to hope for is that in the next few years, the evangelical social conservative part of it becomes less powerful... which is doubtful.

I have long suspected that most gay Republicans are libertarian in their outlook and have failed to (or refuse to) recognize the hard shift towards big government in the GOP since Goldwater. That's probably why the "he's a socialist!" attacks on Obama didn't work; McCain was just as much for big government, just in a different way.

It's not a matter of failing to or refusing to recognise the GOP's big government stance these days. (I mean that in the context of a libertarian who would usually rather vote for Republicans over Democrats, not AS a Republican. Although maybe that does make me one.) As someone said, Bush has been as 'socialist' during his presidency as anyone, and there's nothing like war to increase government intervention in the economy. BUT when it comes to a (national) socialist like McCain versus a social democrat socialist like Obama, I choose McCain (cf. douche versus turd...or for anyone who has not seen it, basically every election amounts to a choice between a 'douche' and a 'turd' or two almost equally undesirable options).

I don't blame people for choosing the devil they know in a Democrat, versus a big-government GOP, which has lost its way.

 

[JayHawk]

Marginalizing an entire group of people without meeting or knowing them seems to be the exact same bigotry that most rail against in the GOP. Pretty sick when you become what you hate. So cheers to ya.

I will remain exceedingly conservative in most of my positions such as trade, military strength and use, fiscal policy. I will continue to hold very socially "librul" (is that the cute new word girls?) .....socially liberal views. NO candidate embodies that stance. However many of the seats picked up that make the congress blue are from strong red areas whose constituents are disenchanted with the scandalous republican party. So to keep those seats in 2 years they had better move pretty damn quick to the middle.

I was very heartened to see Obama shift from his immediate end to the iraq war position to a more realistic view of listening to his advisors and slowly retracting that war while saying he would push harder into Afghanistan. An immediate end would mean so much loss of life. So despite using the extreme left wing of the party to garner the chance that he has now capitolized on, I doubt he will rule that way. It showed he would be a stronger leader at the top than he was being protrayed. The true test of will is when he does authorize the military to prosecute the enemy in the mountains and the American death toll starts rising will he stand or shrink? Time will tell.

On a seperate note could rational now please return to JUB? The foaming at the mouth stuff is really quite idiotic. Like listening to heavy metal cuz your a tough guy or listening to britney cuz your flame is high. The extreme foaming at the mouth rants are tiring to read. So since I refuse to hide behind an ignore button then please reign in your insanity. Thank you and may Prada bless. I approved this message.

 

[Zingerific]

Yeah I don't see how gay people could change the party 'from within'. The only thing to hope for is that in the next few years, the evangelical social conservative part of it becomes less powerful... which is doubtful.

That's more or less what I meant, whereby "changing the party" means lessening the influence of social conservatives. Funny, evangelicals used to be liberals, from the fire-and-brimstone abolitionist preachers to William Jennings Bryan. I know that was a long time ago, but it can be odd how things change.

I mean that in the context of a libertarian who would usually rather vote for Republicans over Democrats

I'll confess that this is something I've never really understood. Most libertarians I know end up voting Republican. Why? I suppose my question is: what is the decision making calculus whereby Democratic big government is worse than Republican big government? As far as the economy goes, I don't see the Republicans as laissez-faire; rather, they are all for government intervention in the form of subsidies, sweet-heart deals and no-bid contracts. I don't see today's Republicans as advocates of a free market at all. Even on trade, Bush raised steel tariffs, a policy worthy of Dennis Kucinich!

 

[sheiserFL]

It's difficult in a two party system for someone to affiliate completely with one party. I don't like either party that much. I am very pro-free trade and I love the Reagan "starve the beast" philosophy because I think the government has too much waste. That said, I have voted straight-ticket Democrat since I could vote. Mostly because of the bigotry.