Gay Republicans Are Self-Loathing And Don't Care About Gay Rights

[hungrybrownbear]

Jasun is very much like me in how he expresses his opinions. He always goes wayyyy out in crazyland to prove a point. He's merely picking all public goods and calling them socialist to prove a point. He's much smarter than you are making him out to be. You just don't want him to be right.

I don't really care if he's right or wrong. I just don't like people insulting my intelligence after I post something that actually has merit.

 

[DiamondSkin]

Because you have no real argument?

Oh, hush, you.

You haven't made a single argument in the whole thread.

 

[SilverWolf]

Just out of curiosity... how is America veiwed now amongst the international community since Obama has been in the Oval Office?

I know, it's a question most Amercians would never think to ask because most Americans don't give a flying fuck WHAT the international community has to say, America being so great, indeed apparently the Greatest Country in the world of ALl time, but I believe that there's one or two here that might be able to successfully field the question.

Don't quote me but I believe it has improved if only slightly to moderately. Anybody with sources to prove me wrong, feel free to do so.

 

[DiamondSkin]

In political discussions I'm often blunt and speak my mind. I understand some of you are more serious about this issue than I am. I don't mean to be cruel or incentive. I do care about the rights of gay Americans, I'm also glad that we gay people have chat rooms such as this one and hear other people points of view, but I don't let that one small issue decide which path this country should go down. I think there are more important things at stake here.

Don't even try to back-pedal, ya self-loathing...

You just gave a big middle finger to any gay person who's been denied to the right to see his or her dying partner in the hospital because of they lack the right to do so.

There are many gay men on this forum who have had partners die from AIDS and the hospital prevented them from seeing the people they love.

And you said: "They probably know he loves you anyway"

Wow. That's how heartless you are. You're obviously the type of person who's gonna spend your life alone as it should be.

And no, gay rights isn't a "small" issue to us.

It's a big issue. It's about equality for us.

Something you clearly can't understand nor do you care to.

 

[DiamondSkin]

Yes I did.

You will be searching for the clean end of a turd for the rest of your life.

No, you didn't.

And sweetie, don't try to use the same 'joke' twice in the same thread.

It speaks of desperation and lack of imagination...

 

[Memosexual87]

this thread is such a fuckturd!!

i miss this bitchyness shit from jub man its been too long but i didnt have to look hard to find it again.

And so you're expending time and energy on him... why?

cause when u got stupid things in your head you want to let them out your mouth and everyone likes runnin at the mouth .

irregardless - FTW!!

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c211yCCZdJY[/ame]

 

[hawkia]

Give me a f*cking break!

I've voted for more than one Democrat in the past who stabbed me in the back, breaking every promise he/she made to the gay community, promises that had "won" my vote.

Clinton, with DADT. My two US Senators from WA (at the time) who later supported DOMA.

They got my vote 'cuz they were on "my" side, then threw gays under the bus.

A lot like Obama, our "fierce advocate", and the progress he's implemented so far.

Amen and at least 10 characters

 

[mrcorbin]

Oh, well THAT would be a comfort.

Honestly, what a horseshit thing to say. I hope you never find yourself in that position, it happens a lot more than you probably know.

That's funny -- because I spend A LOT of time in a hospital and I have never seen this issue. Usually if everyone is behaving themselves they can go right in. I have spent many nights in the ER and have yet to kick someone out because they are gay and their partner is in the room. We do not have any policy that says you must be legally married or related to join them. As long as you want to come in and the person wants you to it is fine. Now if the family hates you - that might create an issue.

 

[AlinCanada]

For me I find this discussion funny...First off the idea of registering your party affiliation is so alien to us we could never do it. In Canada we change based soley on issues for that election.

But I must say having met with Republicans, and actually worked to have some of them Banned from Entry into Canada for their hate speech that the overall impression of the party is they would rather have every Gay person branded and behind a fence somewhere then out where they can be seen.

So yes when it comes to big Republican supporters and elected officials OUT EM ALL, and damn the torpedoes. And if you actually support a party that for the majority would like to see you imprisoned then you would be no different the the orthodox jew as a member of the Nazi party in 1939. You would have to despise yourself and everyone like you.

 

[onlyatest]

As a gay Republican, I had to chime in. Let me preface this: I am a registered Republican. I'm a small government, low tax, no universal health care, pro-life, pro-family values (albeit I think gay marriage falls under that), and the whole thing.

So, what have the Democrats done, aside from make empty promises? Obama, the most liberal President we've had in decades, has the largest congressional Democratic majority we've had in decades. And what's changed? He signed a weak hate crimes bill. Do you realize Obama could overturn Don't Ask, Don't Tell in three minutes? And it's been a year, and he shows no inclination of doing so, except giving half-assed speeches about how it's coming.

Meanwhile, Michelle Obama hasn't said anything on gay rights, while Meghan and Cindy McCain (daughter and wife of John McCain) have given speeches recently to the Log Cabin Republicans calling for marriage equality now. So who is pro-gay rights and who isn't?

Not to mention, of course, Bill Clinton pushed for both the Defense of Marriage Act and Don't Ask, Don't Tell in the 1990s. One of the dissenting voices at the time was former Senator Barry Goldwater ("Mr. Conservative" who ran for President in 1964 and paved the way for Reagan) with the famous quote "you don't need to be straight to be in the military--you just have to shoot straight," because a small conservative government meant, to him, one that didn't judge its citizens. So who was for gay rights, and who wasn't?

The thing is that no major elected official is "for" gay rights--because, in a world where referendums in the bluest of blue states strike down gay marriage, it's not politically intelligent to do so. Neither side wants gay rights, so why not vote Republican, and vote to shrink governmental involvement in our lives, when the government has shown, consistently, that they don't care about us?

Barack Obama's actually said he's against gay marriage too, and he's seemingly dragging his feet as long as possible before overturning Don't Ask, Don't Tell and the Defense of Marriage Act... so why should I sacrifice my other beliefs--small government, low taxes, economic growth, freedom, prosperity--for a half-promise from someone pandering to liberals? The same goes for Bob McDonnell--he panders to the conservative right with anti-gay rhetoric, but do you seriously believe it's going to be illegal to be gay in Virginia now? Sure, we might not get gay marriage there, but they've had a Democratic governor for the entire decade, and they've done nothing too. Both parties are useless, neither of them care. I can ignore anti-gay rhetoric just as easily as I ignore empty pro-gay promises.

Not to mention, of course, if you're going to compare gays today to blacks sixty years ago, you should realize that in terms of marriage and adoption--the only real "gay rights" issues still at play, to be honest--weren't decided by a President or a Congress, Democrat or Republican. It was the Supreme Court.

So why should I vote for someone who's going to bleed the country dry, keep our economy in the doldrums, and waste all of our money on added bureaucracy? It's not worth it. Gay rights are very important to me, but they're equally unimportant to Democrats and Republicans. So I vote on things I do have the power to change. I'm proud of my beliefs. I'm proud that I'm not someone who would say "I voted for Barack Obama because he's black, and I'm black" or "I voted for Barney Frank because I'm gay, and he's gay" but that I actually have substance and intelligence behind my vote.

 

[hungrybrownbear]

He's also a reasonable man who will listen to "please don't insult my intelligence" rather than "Oh ya, well you're just a Porn Guy!"

He knows his job. He goes there every day. So, being as straight forward and "dude I had a good point" as he is, might be more affective than calling him out for the whole porn thing.

FYI - Republicans don't believe Porn is a sin. Only homosexuality.

I think you have the timeline wrong.

1. He branded me with "not the sharpest tool" and "unreliable source", after I clarified the public goods that he mistakenly (or purposely, whatever you think it is) confused with socialism.

2. Then I said, well you're one to talk, porn isn't exactly an industry where you have authority in all things political.

This is not me out of the blue just saying, well you're stupid because you work in porn, because I don't think it's stupid.

This is me saying, well if you're going to call me stupid because I'm studying this material basically everyday and I can textually back up all of my claims, and you're in an industry that isn't related to academia in the slightest bit, and you're using sensationalist exaggerations to win arguments, what does that make you?

I don't randomly attack people and throw belittling insults at them.

Jasun seems to do that to many people before he even knows what they think or what their position is on any issue. And then when people catch on and reprimand him he goes, OH I WAS JOKING. And if they don't, he gets away with it.

 

[JasunStrikesBack]

Not to mention, of course, Bill Clinton pushed for both the Defense of Marriage Act and Don't Ask, Don't Tell in the 1990s.

It's cute you think you can say that without us laughing at you.

Really cute.

I mean, you're 100% full of shit, lying, making it up... but hey, you just go right ahead and say it anyway.

At least we know that gay Republicans are consistent, anyway.

Bill Clinton wanted to allow gays in the military and tried to do it with an executive order but was forced into the DADT compromise (which he thought was a step in the right direction, at least) by Republicans.

Republicans also wrote and jammed DOMA through and forced him to sign it.

Don't think you can get away with suggesting that it was the evil liberal who forced those things on the poor gay Republicans who just wanted to help the fags.

 

[onlyatest]

I mean, you're 100% full of shit, lying, making it up... but hey, you just go right ahead and say it anyway.

No... it is true. You even said it yourself. You said he compromised with DADT--he pushed for it, no? And how exactly did Republicans "force" him to sign DOMA? Gun to his head? Doesn't he, as President, have veto power? If he was the bleeding heart pro-gay President, why didn't he veto it?

I never said Republicans, as a party, are pro-gay rights. But when you say people like Obama and Clinton are--well, that's just wrong. I don't think, as I said, any major national politician is pro-gay rights. So why do I have to be a Democrat, again?

 

[JasunStrikesBack]

You said he compromised with DADT--he pushed for it, no?

Um.. no. Not even close.

I never said Republicans, as a party, are pro-gay rights. But when you say people like Obama and Clinton are--well, that's just wrong.

I never said that.

I don't think, as I said, any major national politician is pro-gay rights. So why do I have to be a Democrat, again?

Never said that, either.

But thanks for playing.

 

[DiamondSkin]

I never said Republicans, as a party, are pro-gay rights. But when you say people like Obama and Clinton are--well, that's just wrong. I don't think, as I said, any major national politician is pro-gay rights. So why do I have to be a Democrat, again?

Another gay Republican blaming Democrats for lack of gay rights in this country...

Ugh...

Question: How many anti-gay legislations in this country were written, supported and passed by Democrats?

Zero.

How many were by Republicans.

A lot.


It's not about voting for a Republican who values lower taxes, no universal health-care, etc.

It's about NOT voting for a Republican who has an anti-gay agenda or who has consistantly voted for anti-gay legislations.

Are you yet another gay Republican who would vote for an anti-gay Republican with a clear anti-gay agenda into office despite his homophobia?

 

[DiamondSkin]

I never said Republicans, as a party, are pro-gay rights.

But you refuse to recognize that the Republican Party as a whole is an anti-gay rights party? Right?



This is what we call cognitive dissonance.

Typical gay Republican thinking:

"I'm a Republican and a gay man. I don't like Democrat policies so I will attempt to rationalize my allegiance to the Republican Party by ignoring the homophobia in the Republican Party and blaming the Democrats for the lack of gay rights in this country

Always the typical lines from you too:

"Democrats never did anything for gay rights so let's just vote Republican!"

This is logic fail.

 

[NineOfClubs]

Post 184 is one of the best I've ever read.

But the usual JUB hater types will either not read it or ignore it because it challenges them to the core.

 

[DiamondSkin]

The same goes for Bob McDonnell--he panders to the conservative right with anti-gay rhetoric, but do you seriously believe it's going to be illegal to be gay in Virginia now? Sure, we might not get gay marriage there, but they've had a Democratic governor for the entire decade, and they've done nothing too. Both parties are useless, neither of them care. I can ignore anti-gay rhetoric just as easily as I ignore empty pro-gay promises.

This is wrong.

Bob McDonnell has a clear history of voting for anti-gay legislation in VA.

A fact you either don't know or just like to ignore....

In 2004, McDonnell wrote and sponsored the anti-gay HB 187 bill, a rudimentary precursor to the Virginia Marriage Amendment that passed in November 2006.

Bob McDonnell also earned his law degree from Pat Robertson’s Regent University Law School where he was taught to “think Christianly about the law.” Regent’s goal has always been to train lawyers to move into government office and take over the reins to further the Christianists’ goals and Biblical world view.

Bob McDonnell has written legislation and referendums that have opposed:

gay adoption
illegal discrimination of gay workers in VA
gay/lesbian alliances in public high schools
benefits for gay military employees regardless if they violate DADT
legal immigration of gay immigrants

In 2003, McDonnell opposed the reappointment of Newport News Circuit Court Judge Verbena Askew, the first black female circuit court judge in the Commonwealth of Virginia, on the basis that she was a lesbian and therefore may have violated Virginia’s “Crimes against Nature” statute which was struck down by the U.S. Supreme Court later that same year in the Lawrence v. Texas decision.

McDonnell is as anti-gay as it gets. It shows in his actions, words and mindset.

But what do you care? McDonnell's a Republican and you'll back his anti-gay ass no matter what....

Not to mention, of course, if you're going to compare gays today to blacks sixty years ago, you should realize that in terms of marriage and adoption--the only real "gay rights" issues still at play, to be honest--weren't decided by a President or a Congress, Democrat or Republican. It was the Supreme Court.

You mean besides the right to housing, protection for discrimination in the workplace, the right to workplace insurance benefits, the right to work in the military without being closeted.....

Yep, we're clearly only missing a couple of rights.

Wrong again....

Gay rights are very important to me,

No, they're not. Please don't pretend.

but they're equally unimportant to Democrats and Republicans.

That's where you're wrong. Gay rights may be unimportant to some Democrats and Republicans.

But the OPPOSITION to gay rights? Purely Republican and very important to alot of them....

Is this where you try to rationalize by saying "They both don't care about us so I'll vote Republican!" while having blind eye to the consistent anti-gay agenda of the Republican Party?

You know what happened to Maine right?

Oh, never mind. You'll just blame Obama...

So I vote on things I do have the power to change.

You vote on things that affect your wallet, nothing more.

As for your self-respect as a gay man, that's not even in mind when you pull the lever.

but that I actually have substance and intelligence behind my vote.

No, you clearly don't.

You like to ignore the anti-gay agenda in the Republican Party.

You like to blame the lack of gay rights on the Democratic Party.

It's hardly anything new I've heard from gay Republicans.

 

[onlyatest]

NineofClubs: thanks--that means a lot.

Everyone else: You twist what I said. I don't think anyone would argue the Republicans are the party of gay rights. But the topic of this thread implies that the Democrats are. And they're not. My only claim was that neither party is going to carry the banner. I don't live in fear of us losing the rights we already have--and they are substantial, to be honest, went compared to where we were twenty, thirty years ago.

But no major lawmaker is going to fight for us. Obama is flinging some good rhetoric, but there is one sole reason he has not overturned DADT--because if he goes pro-gay, he loses Virginia, Indiana, Ohio, Florida, Nevada; he loses the Presidency in 2012. So he won't. He'll tell you he will, but when California goes 55-45 against gay marriage, he won't. He can't. It's us or his career. Guess what he's going to choose.

So, in light of that, I'm a pragmatist. I don't care if someone is saying being gay is a sin. He's not going to do anything different politically than someone who stands up and says "gays deserve rights... but not on my watch." Sure, there may be some votes here or there, some minor issues lost--but we can still live openly. We still have it 95% good. We're not going to get the 5% whether I vote for a Democrat or a Republican, because the country--the blue states and the red states--are dead against it. So I have to bide my time and look for the things I can benefit from. And those things are low taxes and unemployment that isn't in the stratosphere--so that, when I can finally get married, I can have the life that I want.

For the record, you have every right to be a Democrat. I have every right to be a Republican. Maybe you could tell me why you don't think I do, and why you apparently think calling me "self-loathing" for my beliefs should be less incredibly offensive than a Republican candidate calling me "a sinner" for my orientation. All I see is that you have the audacity to assume that I should and should not act or believe a certain way in the face of a vague, intangible idea of "evil," the same way the crazy Christian right does--and if that's what you call tolerance, then I think we should all reassess what this fight is about.

 

[DiamondSkin]

Post 184 is one of the best I've ever read.

But the usual JUB hater types will either not read it or ignore it because it challenges them to the core.

Actually I have read it and picked it apart as shown in my post above.

He's no different from many other gay Republicans in this thread where they all experience the same logic fail:

He blames the Democrat Party for lack of gay rights and the losses of gay rights...yet he ignores the Republicans behind the anti-gay agenda that led to this lacking and the losses.....

He approves one of very few Republican or conservatives who have displayed pro-gay proclivity to demonstrate how "open" his party is...and yet he ignores the vast majority of Republicans anti-gay agenda and their numerous legislations that have been passed over the last 30 years.

He slams Democrats for either lying about gay rights or not caring about gay rights....and he ignores the fact that Democrats are largely responsible for nearly every single pro-gay legislation that has been passed in this country. Most recently, the Hate Crimes Bill.

He claims that Republicans don't care about gay rights....and yet he ignores that the vast majority of Republicans DO care about gay rights, so they can OPPOSE them at every step.

He claims that both parties don't care about gay rights to rationalize his standing with the Republican Party....and yet he ignores that Democrats have been behind pro-gay rights legislation (Maine) and Republicans have consistantly been opposing it (Maine again....)

So, no. He's hardly original or intelligent in what he wrote.

It's fairly typical and hypocritical and it shows he's no different.