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Gay Sex - You Are Born a Top, Bottom, Versatile

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But if you fail to see this, then how does one explain why anal sex is a very common practice between men who have sex with men? I mean...

Because if feels good. If fucking your ear felt better you'd have a cock in it. Why isn't it being proposed that sucking it, hand jobs, and toe sex are genetically "hardwired." All are very common.

This whole question is about the cultural assumptions ingrained about the guy who penetrates and the guy who gets penetrated. Who's the top and who's the bottom. It's a masculinity issue, that questions if there is some kind of "genetic" difference between men who like to fuck, and ones who like to get fucked.

There is no science at all involved, the OP is asserting that two men are fundamentally different if one likes a cock up his rear. No. They equally love men. There is no scientific imperative about where they stick them.
 
My phone didn't allow my text to post correctly. What I meant was:

I fully agree. To your point with labels, labels are very necessary. I think only a few people are truly “go with the flow” types. The rest of us have our limits. And there’s nothing wrong with this. I actually think it’s helpful and not a limitation. I think it’s important to have what I call “hard no’s” before entering a relationship so that you keep yourself grounded and stay true to yourself. It shouldn’t be many (like 3 hard no’s) but enough to remain yourself of who you are because a good amount of people lose themselves when they are with someone long term. It’s like they morph into one thing for good or bad.

To the joke that you referenced about tops being straight. Meh, I honestly think there may be some truth in that. I think it's easier to hide in the closet when you solely prefer penetrating vs being penetrated because if you want to stay in the closet long term, your brain will rationalize that at the end of the day a hole is a hole. That’s not to say that there aren’t closeted bottoms but sometimes I do feel like among openly gay men there are lots of bottom and versatile men, and we would have a more even amount of tops if they came out of the closet. But this is just me saying this because I feel like when it comes to sexual position preference, everything is even (even amount of tops, versatiles, bottoms) in addition to there being someone out there for everyone. It’s society and it’s norms that mess up/skew things.

All of language is labels, all of it, we go through life attaching a Ka-billion labels to ourselves and other people, everything we see is categorized and labeled, as a matter of simple communication - I think we all know why the only time we insist have no label, is when that label means we have to admit we like dick.
 
All of language is labels, all of it, we go through life attaching a Ka-billion labels to ourselves and other people, everything we see is categorized and labeled, as a matter of simple communication - I think we all know why the only time we insist have no label, is when that label means we have to admit we like dick.

I think you've jumped too far down the philosophical rabbit hole. Labels matter. If there were no labels, then we would all be the same. Not only is sameness unrealistic, in my opinion, it's wrong. What's correct are our differences. Differences, which are distinguished by labels, are what should be embraced and enjoyed. The problem with the society that we live in today is that our differences are sometimes misunderstood and oftentimes misapplied and taken advantage of.
 
Because if feels good. If fucking your ear felt better you'd have a cock in it. Why isn't it being proposed that sucking it, hand jobs, and toe sex are genetically "hardwired." All are very common.

This whole question is about the cultural assumptions ingrained about the guy who penetrates and the guy who gets penetrated. Who's the top and who's the bottom. It's a masculinity issue, that questions if there is some kind of "genetic" difference between men who like to fuck, and ones who like to get fucked.

There is no science at all involved, the OP is asserting that two men are fundamentally different if one likes a cock up his rear. No. They equally love men. There is no scientific imperative about where they stick them.

It feels good because its "hardwired" to feel good. There is no pleasure spot in a man's ear yet there is one in his anus and for many, the penis provides obvious pleasure. If that's not hardwired, then I really don't know what you are talking about.

I think you are a bit averse to the idea that there is a sort of biological component to some men being a total bottom or a total top. Given your responses, I honestly get the impression that you are versatile and/or "go with the flow" with men that you engage in penetrative sexual activities with. I've always been confident in my conclusion that responses like these are typical of men who prefer versatility - "no labels", "go with the flow," etc., and I think the aversion comes from a difference of viewpoint which is biologically rooted.
 
It feels good because its "hardwired" to feel good. There is no pleasure spot in a man's ear yet there is one in his anus and for many, the penis provides obvious pleasure. If that's not hardwired, then I really don't know what you are talking about.

I think you are a bit averse to the idea that there is a sort of biological component to some men being a total bottom or a total top. Given your responses, I honestly get the impression that you are versatile and/or "go with the flow" with men that you engage in penetrative sexual activities with. I've always been confident in my conclusion that responses like these are typical of men who prefer versatility - "no labels", "go with the flow," etc., and I think the aversion comes from a difference of viewpoint which is biologically rooted.

You can think what ever you want, it feels good because it stimulates nerve endings in the anus an penis, Period. I think you have absolutely no evidence whatsoever that there is some kind of biological imperative forcing you into being a bossy bottom.

Where is this science?
 
I think you've jumped too far down the philosophical rabbit hole. Labels matter. If there were no labels, then we would all be the same. Not only is sameness unrealistic, in my opinion, it's wrong. What's correct are our differences. Differences, which are distinguished by labels, are what should be embraced and enjoyed. The problem with the society that we live in today is that our differences are sometimes misunderstood and oftentimes misapplied and taken advantage of.

No, what you've just written is psycho babble, it remains that the only labels that offend are the ones requiring you to admit you want to smoke the pole.
 
You can think what ever you want, it feels good because it stimulates nerve endings in the anus an penis, Period.
It feels good because the nerve stimulation is interpreted by the brain as pleasurable (for most people).

For some (like me), nerve stimulation is experienced as uncomfortable bordering on painful at times whilst at others it feels okay (sometimes even good) and eventually leads to ejaculation. However I don't think I experience an orgasm unless the equivalent of a sneeze is considered an orgasm.

As I understand it, the pleasure is experienced in the brain due to chemical release (which is perhaps absent in me). The point being that it is the brain that is reacting to stimuli, and being so complex, it is possible for the reaction to be different between individuals due to changes in the brain from construction differences or environmental influences.

I understand that many women can't orgasm until they learn how to stimulate themselves in the right way: the mechanism exists but without the environmental influence of learning, it is not realised.

Some with spinal injuries can not experience orgasm through penile stimulation, but have learned that stroking another body part can also be interpreted to trigger an orgasm.

More recently, many men are discovering the pleasures of prostate stimulation, with some finding that after training their brains to recognise the nerve impulses as pleasurable, they can trigger an orgasm without physical stimulation simply by imagining it.

Thus it is not simply a matter of nerve stimulation, period, but of the brain interpreting those signals appropriately. Whilst there is obviously a fundamental physical mechanism of specific nerve stimulation leading to pleasure, the path to pleasure is far more flexible and ultimately centred in the brain and perception.

Consequently I believe it is theoretically possible to develop a pleasure response to a wide range of stimuli, not only physical; however it may need the fundamental mechanism to be activated first so that the brain knows what pleasure is, before it can be reproduced through other means. It is therefore conceivable that some people may have pleasure responses to different stimuli from the norm and these could be learned through environmental influences.

I suspect societal influences have as much effect on behaviour as initial biological programming and the brain is somewhat plastic to reprogramming. Given the right circumstances, I think most men would be able to derive pleasure from sex with other men, however society has condemned this for so long that there is a mental barrier to exploring it and thus the usual inbuilt opposite sex attraction predominates. When incarcerated though, some men overcome the mental barrier when desire and opportunity exceed social mores.

What I am trying to say is that I think we are biologically programmed at birth with some behaviours that are sex specific; that sometimes these behaviours become switched between the sexes for reasons unknown; but ultimately the brain is somewhat plastic and can be reprogrammed to modify or override those pre-programmed behaviours to varying degrees.

I'm not convinced we are born a top, bottom or versatile but it is possible receptive or penetrative are biological behaviours linked to sex, which can become confused between the sexes, but these are ultimately influenced by learning and environment.

I remember reading about experiments with cattle in which young females were injected with testosterone, which changed their behaviour to include mounting (which is normally associated with males). So there we have an example of how basic biological programming can be altered.

When I first accepted my sexual orientation, I had no interest in arses and I couldn't understand other gay men's attraction to that part of the anatomy. Over time I have begun to perceive that situation differently as I have been exposed to stimulation. I'm still not completely at ease or attracted to them, but I acknowledge their role in providing pleasure to others and am not averse to some engagement for that purpose. Presumably with increased engagement I might even grow to like arses through association with my own pleasure. Anecdotal evidence of heterosexual men who like anal sex with their wives as a treat, suggests anal sex may have some benefits compared to vaginal sex. I have yet to experience this for myself, which could change my perception of arses.

When mankind mapped the genome, they thought they would understand everything there was to life, but they discovered epigenetic factors that switched genes on or off. I doubt that is the end of the matter and that there is still more we do not know and we do not know what we do not know. Similarly I think biology and behaviour is more complicated than nature or nurture, but a combination of not only both but diversity of nature beyond a simple binary result.
 
I consider myself to be a total gay bottom. I do not have any desire to top or penetrate anything. At first I thought it was because I masturbate so it could be because my penis has become accustomed to the grip of my hand, but this is not at all the case. It's more psychological. I genuinely don't have the desire to stick my penis in any orifice.
Masturbation by hand could be considered as a virtual orifice, yet you don't have an aversion to that.

Arses have historically been taboo and reviled, so you already have a socially indoctrinated revulsion to them.

Historically there has been reference to "vagina dentatum" or the fear that the vagina has teeth, so I suspect a psychological trauma involving women can create such a perception.

Fears are often difficult to overcome, even with desensitisation strategies and require persistence in generating countering positive experiences. Trying a couple of times if you did have subconscious fears would probably not change them.

Perhaps as a male with the sexual orientation of a woman, you also have inherited a female biological receptive sexual response as part of your individual diversity.

All speculation on my part. It's a fascinating area that we still know so little about.
 
Interesting topic. I started my sexual life with guys as a total top and i have migrated to being oral versatile and a total anal bottom. I no longer have any desire to penetrate anally but love being fucked. So im not sure but for me it was definitely a process of discovery.
 
Interesting topic. I started my sexual life with guys as a total top and i have migrated to being oral versatile and a total anal bottom. I no longer have any desire to penetrate anally but love being fucked. So im not sure but for me it was definitely a process of discovery.

Perhaps early on you knew deep down that you might totally prefer to bottom from the pleasure but your conscience wouldn't allow you to admit this.
 
Perhaps early on you knew deep down that you might totally prefer to bottom from the pleasure but your conscience wouldn't allow you to admit this.
There might be some truth to that, when i was a top i was really struggling with my sexuality and i felt dirty and ashamed after sex with a man.
I only started bottoming after accepting i was 1000% gay and thats when i really started to love sex.
 
I can only speak for myself, but as a top if I am attracted to a guy, I want his ass. Not just because it would feel good for me, but because his ass and all the things I could do to it is what does it for me. I have heard and seen comments usually from bottoms in the past saying how they cannot understand why tops are attracted to asses, but conclude they will just 'stick it in anywhere' for the pleasure. But for me that's not the case, I wouldn't want to top a woman, but a hot guy, definitely. I don't think it's something that is completely learned either at least for me, I had an attraction to guys butts long before I had any sexual experiences. Whereas some bottoms never have any desire whatsoever to screw another man or the idea may turn them off completely. For me it would be a deal breaker, I would bottom for a partner to keep him happy but I couldn't have a partner who wouldn't let me top him - it would be torture for me.
 
I personally love entry and sliding/ pumping feelings on my cock from his Rosebud!!
 
A great topic and worthy of the comments of all here. I wanted to be the top when I first acted on the fulfilment of my perceived needs as a guy. I was an inept and frankly bad top and I let those feelings of being incompetent at even the simplest of tasks, having natural uninhibited sex, shape poor self-esteem. Dealing with not being able to even realize my belief that sexual prowess was being the top and fucking any guy who might need a dick was not easy. Somewhere in time I realized that it is not what you want to be it is about what you are. I read and read and listened and the more I learned the more I came to understand that in the world of men there truly are alphas who carry the dna that makes them who they are and that could be a whole range of qualities not just dominance or aggressiveness. In fact those two words hardly describe natural intimacy between a man who is a top and one who is the bottom. Alpha men are simply men who are naturally drawn those of us who are beta men to them and fill us with the desire to know, to please, to be with, to serve, to give, etc etc. The complete the circle and compliment the natural draw of a couple of sexual beings. I have come to realize that being born to who we are is much more complex than making a sexual choice - top or bottom. It is knowing and accepting that what you are is the natural fulfillment of you as a being. As a result I know I am the best bottom any top might hope to meet. But what makes me the best is not my willingness to be the bottom it is the gift of the guy who in that moment is my top as he brings out all that defines me as a person and in that sexual moment it is me the bottom, a born bottom? Fuck yeah.
 
I don't know if we are "born" to be a top, a bottom, or versatile, or if it is something we learn to enjoy. I can only say that in my case, I love being a top and I cannot imagine being anything else. When I first came out several years ago I felt a lot of pressure to be a bottom (or at least versatile) and to embrace a certain "femininity". I even bottomed a couple of times with some guys I really liked. However, with the passage of time and experience, I've come to the conclusion - "fuck all of that". I'm a masculine guy, and I love masculinity. I love to get a good blowjob, I love to penetrate, and I love to fuck! It feels natural to me. In fact, when I'm with a guy and I physically get on top, my dick seems to find his way naturally into the bottom's hole without any need for guidance. When I've hooked up with other tops, we usually wrestle and wind up doing 69, respecting the recognition we give to each other as tops. I like to be called "fucker" by my buddies - it makes me feel strong. I feel that I am recognized for who I am. :wink:
 
I don't know if we are "born" to be a top, a bottom, or versatile, or if it is something we learn to enjoy. I can only say that in my case, I love being a top and I cannot imagine being anything else. When I first came out several years ago I felt a lot of pressure to be a bottom (or at least versatile) and to embrace a certain "femininity". I even bottomed a couple of times with some guys I really liked. However, with the passage of time and experience, I've come to the conclusion - "fuck all of that". I'm a masculine guy, and I love masculinity. I love to get a good blowjob, I love to penetrate, and I love to fuck! It feels natural to me. In fact, when I'm with a guy and I physically get on top, my dick seems to find his way naturally into the bottom's hole without any need for guidance. When I've hooked up with other tops, we usually wrestle and wind up doing 69, respecting the recognition we give to each other as tops. I like to be called "fucker" by my buddies - it makes me feel strong. I feel that I am recognized for who I am. :wink:

Well put! The main thing I would call out is that I see bottoming as just as masculine as topping. (Full disclosure: I’m a versatile bottom myself.) But I completely agree it’s not even that important whether we’re born to like certain positions, or if it’s nature-vs.-nurture or whatever.

What does matter is doing what feels right! That, and being with someone who’s right for you, whether as a hookup or a LTR. As long as you’re being true to yourself, and you’re both getting what you want, what else matters?!?!
 
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I was born a bottom. I knew that early on in my life always wanted to play the dead guy as a kid. Later, I wanted my GF to tie me up. Then even later with my first cock, I discovered my true nature as a Faggot Oral Bottom Cumslut. It is who I am and I love it.
 
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