Gay wedding cakes & discrimination

[quasar]

I've noticed how the Americans in this thread seem to be supporting the small shop-owner. It was a different case in Britain with the litigious gay activist and the put-upon Christian BnB owner.

The problem with America - and it is evident in many areas - is that there is a continuous 'fight' between the values of 'non-discrimination' and the 'freedom of speech'. The 'whose rights are more important' issue is fought more vehemently than in the UK - where we mostly bow down to the European Human Rights convention because we have a spineless government.

 

[pat grimshaw]

^
That's interesting.

(My sympathies in both instances are with the small business owner)

 

[kallipolis]

The problem with America - and it is evident in many areas - is that there is a continuous 'fight' between the values of 'non-discrimination' and the 'freedom of speech'. The 'whose rights are more important' issue is fought more vehemently than in the UK - where we mostly bow down to the European Human Rights convention because we have a spineless government.

That the European Human Rights Convention has achieved much more for human rights for gays by eliminating most forms of discriminatory behaviour against gays suggests that the United States is many light years behind the states of the European Union on issues directly affecting the human rights of the gay person.

 

[kallipolis]

Freedom of speech even in liberty loving America is restrained by libel, and slander laws that encourages people to be mindful of what they say in the public arena.

We should not need to be reminded that the United States is the most litigious nation on this planet. Be careful what you speak or, write in public for fear of legal action addressing perceived offensive speech.

 

[Ninja108]

Under Iowa law, she DID break discrimination laws by not doing business with these two women because they were a couple. She admitted she rejected their business because of who they were.
More to the point,for those saying these two women should take their business elsewhere, what would it be next? The grocery store? A book store? The pharmacy? It's not about the cake, it's about the fact a minority group has been singled out and told they aren't welcome in a business that serves the public.

 

[quasar]

That the European Human Rights Convention has achieved much more for human rights for gays by eliminating most forms of discriminatory behaviour against gays suggests that the United States is many light years behind the states of the European Union on issues directly affecting the human rights of the gay person.

Indeed, whilst there are MANY positive things to come out of the legislation, there is also much exploitation of 'grey areas' and interpretation of some rules - leading many of us in the UK to question whether EU laws should have precedent over UK laws. And this is the similar dilema for Americans in certain circumstances. Does an individual's right to freedom of speech take priority over an individual's right to equal treatment? In the American model, freedom of speech takes priority as there are no laws (to my knowledge) that forbid refusing to provide a service based on the individual's sexual orientation or religious belief.

I'm sure one of our American friends can correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[pat grimshaw]

Under Iowa law, she DID break discrimination laws …

Ninja, I've had a few discussions over similar cases to this one.

I've found the people who argue most strongly against the service-provider are students, welfare recipients, employees, young people— ie people who haven't operated their own business or dealt with heavy-handed government regulations.

 

[chrisrobin]

........................
CASE DISMISSED

 

[rareboy]

Ninja, I've had a few discussions over similar cases to this one.

I've found the people who argue most strongly against the service-provider are students, welfare recipients, employees, young people— ie people who haven't operated their own business or dealt with heavy-handed government regulations.

But that doesn't make them wrong.

 

[pat grimshaw]

^
Theorists might like Wrong or Right, Black or White, Yes or No but the real world is about compromise.