Geological Time: A Republican Explains

[opinterph]

Rubio did not say that creationism should be taught in schools.

He may not have said [creationism should be taught in schools] flat out, but that's what his indication that it should be taught will mean to his target audience.

Minimally paraphrased remarks from Senator Rubio’s GQ interview (see opening post):

At the end of the day,

• I think there are multiple theories to explain how the universe was created.

• I think people in the United States should have the opportunity to teach all the theories that explain how the universe was created.

• I think parents should be able to teach their kids what their faith says about how the universe was created.

• I think parents should be able to teach their kids what science says about how the universe was created.

 

[Rolyo85]

Thank you, opinterph. He very clearly said that it should be taught together with science.

Jack, I am also dying to know the answer to TX-beau's question.

And no need to apologize for your mistake. Not that I expect you to ^_^

 

[Jack Springer]

SOoooooooo.......

TELL US Jack, do YOU believe in Creationism? DO YOU think it should be taught in schools?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Yes, I believe God created the world. I have faith. To me it's not really that important how God created the world -- the discussion is mostly used to separate people and cause division -- something we don't need more of.

I see nothing wrong with teaching that God created the earth along with evolution in school There are problems that some people will have with both.

If you believe in evolution -- you have to have faith in it too. There are a lot of unexplained issues

 

[rareboy]

There is a problem with teaching that God created the earth in science class versus teaching a spectrum of creation myths in a comparative religion class.

The reality is that the religious right wingers in the US want it to be restricted to the Mosiac interpretation. But the Hopi, the Hindu and L. Ron Hubbard's doctrinal teaching on the subject should all have equal weight if people want to establish prima facie limitations on the origins and the development of the universe. It used to be so easy. Just say that God did it and you can keep an entire civilization under the control of absolute temporal and spiritual rulers. Let in the science and facts and the idea that any person can unlock and understand the nature of the universe and you lose that control.

And when it comes to evolution? The only faith you have to have is that the the factual record will keep unfolding at the same rate as it has for the last 150 years. The evidence is more than overwhelming to prove the concept. Those who cling desperately to the notion that the early people of Israel were the only iron age tribes to be handed the literal word of Jaweh love those so called 'holes' in the evolutionary record.

The limited thinkers need these 'unexplained issues' in order to reassure them that one of the fundamental precepts of their beliefs still stands, albeit on increasingly wobbly legs.

When I was in Grade nine, I was so insulted that our Biology teacher was required by the school board to mention the Judaic creation theory in class as an equal and credible alternative to what she was going to be teaching us that I immediately selected evolution as my project topic and made my own religious family sit through the evidence...based in part on selective breeding in agriculture.

The southern Baptists, mostly, it seems with a poor education, have to yield control on this.

Let them believe what they want personally. Let them teach their creation mythology in Sunday School. But make them stop turning yet another generation into close minded dunces who only keep hanging on to the literalism of poetics because their personal faith is so weak.

 

[palemale]

From what I have read online, it appears that the Catholic Church is not particularly concerned about the timeline relating to the appearance of life on Earth, but indicates that to the extent evolution may have played a role, that development occurred under the guidance of God. The Catholic Church specifically denounces any belief in atheistic evolution and holds a special reverence for what it describes as “the human soul.”

I'm a product of Catholic schools. We studied evolution, and were taught that it was the truth. Yes, we were also taught that it was part of God's plan, but that evolution was scientific truth. The Catholic Church teaches that the bible should not be read literally. The truths in the bible are not scientific truths. The Church teaches that the bible is essentially divinely inspired literature, with a liberal use of metaphor and poetic license.

Rubio just doesn't have the balls to say anything that will hurt him with the base of the Republican Party. He doesn't have the balls to acknowledge either scientific truth or to even assert his own religious beliefs. What a disgrace. No wonder the GOP is so fucked up.

 

[bankside]

Yes, I believe God created the world. I have faith. To me it's not really that important how God created the world -- the discussion is mostly used to separate people and cause division -- something we don't need more of.

I see nothing wrong with teaching that God created the earth along with evolution in school There are problems that some people will have with both.

If you believe in evolution -- you have to have faith in it too. There are a lot of unexplained issues

Your approach is what might be called the "Agree to disagree approach" where if some people disagree with evolutionary theory, and some people disagree with creationist theory, then it's only fair to look past that and teach children both.

The trouble is, this is not a disagreement between reasonable people. This is a disagreement between people who have looked into the matter, and people who are completely ignorant of science and fearful of changing their beliefs. It is wrong to tell children that both theories are equal. And it is wrong to tell children that creationism is even a theory. It is only a hypothesis or hunch. It can't be taught in a science class any more than teaching children how to cure cancer; we can't teach them what we don't know. And while creationism may be hoped for, or wished for, or may fit well with a gut instinct, it just isn't science, and to call it science would be to lie to children.

 

[Rolyo85]

Absolutely. Not to mention we have carbon dating and other ways of figuring out the age of things, and we KNOW that the earth is several hundred million times older than what Creationism claims.

Teach it in bible class. Teach it in Religions class TOGETHER WITH ALL OTHER CREATION MYTHS. But NOT in science classes.

 

[Kulindahr]

Yes, I believe God created the world. I have faith. To me it's not really that important how God created the world -- the discussion is mostly used to separate people and cause division -- something we don't need more of.

I see nothing wrong with teaching that God created the earth along with evolution in school There are problems that some people will have with both.

If you believe in evolution -- you have to have faith in it too. There are a lot of unexplained issues

The only thing that should be taught on that matter is that a majority of the world's people believe that God created it all, but that they hardly agree on the details, and for more go to the library and look it up.

 

[Kulindahr]

It used to be so easy. Just say that God did it and you can keep an entire civilization under the control of absolute temporal and spiritual rulers. Let in the science and facts and the idea that any person can unlock and understand the nature of the universe and you lose that control.

In other words, for the most part they've had to pervert their own religion to enforce their power, keeping people ignorant not only of anything else but of the truth of what their holy books say.


Which is why it was so much tidier for those in power to have a religion without any holy books, without any objective reference point open to anyone to read.

 

[Kulindahr]

Your approach is what might be called the "Agree to disagree approach" where if some people disagree with evolutionary theory, and some people disagree with creationist theory, then it's only fair to look past that and teach children both.

The trouble is, this is not a disagreement between reasonable people. This is a disagreement between people who have looked into the matter, and people who are completely ignorant of science and fearful of changing their beliefs. It is wrong to tell children that both theories are equal. And it is wrong to tell children that creationism is even a theory. It is only a hypothesis or hunch. It can't be taught in a science class any more than teaching children how to cure cancer; we can't teach them what we don't know. And while creationism may be hoped for, or wished for, or may fit well with a gut instinct, it just isn't science, and to call it science would be to lie to children.

More: it's a disagreement between people who want to be ignorant by choice of both science and the Bible.

BTW, creationism, especially young earth creationism, doesn't even rise to the level of a hypothesis. In scientific terms, it's merely a conjecture, and will remain so until it's used to make unique predictions.

 

[eastofeden]

The only thing that should be taught on that matter is that a majority of the world's people believe that God created it all, but that they hardly agree on the details, and for more go to the library and look it up.

^^^This^^^

 

[TX-Beau]

Yes, I believe God created the world. I have faith. To me it's not really that important how God created the world -- the discussion is mostly used to separate people and cause division -- something we don't need more of.

I see nothing wrong with teaching that God created the earth along with evolution in school There are problems that some people will have with both.

If you believe in evolution -- you have to have faith in it too. There are a lot of unexplained issues

...sidestep...

Didn't answer the question. Do you believe in CREATIONISM and think it should BE TAUGHT IN SCHOOLS.

And yes, I know you are quibbling because you know Creationism is utter shit and stupidity and only the ignorant or deluded want anything to do with it.

 

[TX-Beau]

Oh and by the way what are all these unexplained issues you speak of? Enlighten is with your scholarship.

Ten to one folks that he actually knows nothing about either subject other than what he can hastily Google.

 

[TX-Beau]

I know, isn't it the function of a church to teach all those good little Baptists stupidity like Creationism?

Evidently the churches are failing so miserably that now we have to force it into schools to give it authority.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Oh puh-leaze. People don't believe in evolution. Evolution explains the adaption and changes in life. I'm not a scientist, but evolution is about how life changes in the world, and it has substantial evidence. Creationism is a belief... one is free to believe in whatever religion they want, but don't start painting the two on the same level.

God has no place in a public school classroom, and certainly not a science classroom. The only way I would make an exception is if other religions are discussed too, and no agenda is pushed.

I have a Jehovah's Witness coworker and I always ask him if there's no evolution, how does the flu come back. I'm still waiting for an answer. So far he just said "God can change it."

 

[Nishin]

Im so fortunate that religion isnt even mentioned here in politics, including the campaigning period. People simply dont give a shit and dont want politicians to preach religion.

In 2008 when the crash happened here our prime minister ended his speech by asking God to bless the country. It was one of the most talked about events for weeks because such a thing had never happened before and most people thought it was a really inappropriate thing to say.

I would totally freak out if that happened in my country as well... not even mentioning an in god my trust on my bank notes ...

 

[JayHawk]

"In God we trust, everyone else pays cash"

 

[Jack Springer]

...sidestep...

Didn't answer the question. Do you believe in CREATIONISM and think it should BE TAUGHT IN SCHOOLS.

And yes, I know you are quibbling because you know Creationism is utter shit and stupidity and only the ignorant or deluded want anything to do with it.

Yes along with other ideas.

 

[Jack Springer]

Your approach is what might be called the "Agree to disagree approach" where if some people disagree with evolutionary theory, and some people disagree with creationist theory, then it's only fair to look past that and teach children both.

The trouble is, this is not a disagreement between reasonable people. This is a disagreement between people who have looked into the matter, and people who are completely ignorant of science and fearful of changing their beliefs. It is wrong to tell children that both theories are equal. And it is wrong to tell children that creationism is even a theory. It is only a hypothesis or hunch. It can't be taught in a science class any more than teaching children how to cure cancer; we can't teach them what we don't know. And while creationism may be hoped for, or wished for, or may fit well with a gut instinct, it just isn't science, and to call it science would be to lie to children.

How do you tell a child that people, plants, and things just appeared? How do you tell a child that if you leave minerals and water alone for millions of years those components will make a human being or a tree?

Science is an evolving process -- all the answers are not there yet and never will be.

 

[Rolyo85]

Um, in point of fact, in my country nobody has difficulty explaining science to kids. There are kids' encyclopedias, science can be dumbed down infinitely depending on who needs to know. Sadly, religious concepts are rarely smartened up...

And let me add another question just for clarification - in which class should creationism be taught in schools?