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Getting Closer To A Fiscal Cliff Deal

opinterph said:
False.




Funds in the Social Security Trust Fund are worth precisely as much as the dollars in your wallet. Why do you suppose that is true?
Click to expand...

Not false. Funds that would have flowed to SS but did not because of Obama's cuts, were allegedly replaced from the general revenue. More smoke and mirrors
http://www.ssa.gov/oact/trsum/index.html

Because both the so-called trust fund and the dollars are backed by the US Gov, and frankly, given the state of things, neither of them are worth very much. Why do you think gold prices are soaring?
 
Means testing of SS and Medicare would be a good start.
As would Bush's plan to let a small portion of contributions be privately invested and held for the contributor. Thanks largely to the hysteria generated by AARP ads, that plan died.
At some point, this country will have to bite the bullet on this topic, but neither party has the balls to do it.
 
HenryReardon said:
Not false. Funds that would have flowed to SS [were] replaced from the general revenue.
Click to expand...

Ergo, your statement that the Social Security Trust Fund had suffered “a huge reduction” of funds is incorrect. What would otherwise have reduced the reserve was offset by specific allocation, while saving or creating jobs. (Gotta keep that motor running, dontchaknow.)



So should I sell my gold now, or wait ‘til later?
 
HenryReardon said:
Not false. Funds that would have flowed to SS but did not because of Obama's cuts, were allegedly replaced from the general revenue. More smoke and mirrors
http://www.ssa.gov/oact/trsum/index.html

Because both the so-called trust fund and the dollars are backed by the US Gov, and frankly, given the state of things, neither of them are worth very much. Why do you think gold prices are soaring?
Click to expand...

So how does Social security pay out when the United States fails as you suggest with ... their not worth very much....

and yes the fund was on average 66 billion short for the last two year because of the cut but the tax reduction accounted for that and sent 115 million to the SS fund.

The SS fund is good until 2033 at current rates and will be good till 2086 at 75% the current benefit... in other words there are trillions in the account.
 
opinterph said:
Ergo, your statement that the Social Security Trust Fund had suffered “a huge reduction” of funds is incorrect. What would otherwise have reduced the reserve was offset by specific allocation, while saving or creating jobs. (Gotta keep that motor running, dontchaknow.)

So should I sell my gold now, or wait ‘til later?
Click to expand...

The flow of funds from payrol tax deductions was reduced. That is irrefutable. That it was later replaced from general revenue is laughable.

As for jobs created by the so-called stimulus, that's an even larger joke. Look up what each one of those jobs cost.

Sell your gold? Might not be a bad idea. The government has banned the ownership of gold in the past.
 
JayHawk said:
So how does Social security pay out when the United States fails as you suggest with ... their not worth very much....

The SS fund is good until 2033 at current rates and will be good till 2086 at 75% the current benefit... in other words there are trillions in the account.
Click to expand...

If you believe that, you're incredibly naive. It will work if, and only if, interest rates remain low enough for ultimate debt reduction; if and only if there's no inflation; etc. There are too many variables. Anybody who counts on collecting social security these days is living in a dream world..
 
Please explain interest rates being low and that causing ultimate debt reduction... the two are not related... if you refer to our national debt and Social security. You ask me for cites. i did so using the SS funds own accounting. Please demonstrate your accurate cites who say such a thing?

If you are conflating the idea that current rates would only pay until 2033 at the 100 current benefit with the idea that we have a national debt then you are sadly confused.
 
HenryReardon said:
As for jobs created by the so-called stimulus, that's an even larger joke.
Click to expand...

The subject of our interaction was the Payroll Tax Cut Continuation Act of 2011– not The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009. (Though both saved/created jobs.)
 
opinterph said:
The subject of our interaction was the Payroll Tax Cut Continuation Act of 2011– not The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009. (Though both saved/created jobs.)
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Claiming that a legislative act saved jobs is as impossible as proving negative. Can't be done.
 
JayHawk said:
Please explain interest rates being low and that causing ultimate debt reduction... the two are not related... if you refer to our national debt and Social security. You ask me for cites. i did so using the SS funds own accounting. Please demonstrate your accurate cites who say such a thing?

.
Click to expand...

Interest rates are being held down by the Fed. This puts the cost of debt reduction at a lower level. When interest rates rise, as inevitably they must, the cost of debt reduction will rise. Economics 101.
 
HenryReardon said:
Claiming that a legislative act saved jobs is as impossible as proving negative. Can't be done.
Click to expand...

If nothing else, I have anecdotal evidence. My business benefited from the results of that legislative act in a way that helped it survive the crisis of 2009, while many other businesses in the same industry ceased operations. The legislation saved my job.
 
opinterph said:
If nothing else, I have anecdotal evidence. My business benefited from the results of that legislative act in a way that helped it survive the crisis of 2009, while many other businesses in the same industry ceased operations. The legislation saved my job.
Click to expand...

Two, possibly three, businesses here are still going concerns thanks to the stimulus: the highway they depend on is worthy of the name for the first time in twenty years.
 
I know I saw that T Rex. Essentially no matter what Boehner makes a deal on it will not pass because the Tea Partiers are continuing to walk on actually legislating this country. More my way or the highway platitudes.

High Ho
High Ho
It off the cliff we go!
 
No not so Tx... Grover removed his endorsement after offering it. SO did that quitter republican senator ... who was that quitter republican... Palin... no no Demint. Palin was that other quitter... man I can never figure out which republican is going to quit when its get difficult to get your way....

I guess when the going gets tough the weak run and hide.
 
Jesus, it's hard to keep up with the policy prostitution on the right these days.
 
Yeah that entire party is in utter disarray at the moment. i would hardly be surprised to see a different Speaker and a very weak kowtowed republican party come Jan 1st....
 
opinterph said:
If nothing else, I have anecdotal evidence. My business benefited from the results of that legislative act in a way that helped it survive the crisis of 2009, while many other businesses in the same industry ceased operations. The legislation saved my job.
Click to expand...

At a cost to the taxpayers of roughly $287,000 dollars. Hardly a bargain.
 
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