goodbye

[JayQueer]

I'm still really struggling here. I have been for a number of weeks.

I can't reconcile the voice of the person writing here with the person who boldly asserted that they had accepted being gay because God made them this way or with the comments of a very confident afficionado of gay porn.

I struggle with the idea that a 25 year old who is already seeing a therapist and has boldly declared that he cannot support reparative therapy seems to be passively accepting that his parents could set up an appointment with a 'christian' counsellor.

I see that there is some thought that we're being played; that what we're reading is a very cleverly constructed tale designed to lead the audience along a path of uncertainty and self-doubt culminating in acceptance that maybe there is someone who can help them live 'straight'.

Frankly, there are just way too many inconsistencies in the ouvre.

Well, Rareboy, you probably haven't been struggling as much as I have, but here is my explanation.

I started seeing a "gay-affirmative" therapist (on my own volition, and one of my own choosing) about a year ago, and I would go every 2 weeks. A lot of the things that I said about "reparative therapy" and "God making me this way" were things that my therapist told me, and I was parroting his remarks.

As for being a "confident afficionado of gay porn," I only started watching gay porn because I thought that watching some gay porn would make me more comfortable with my body. I thought that giving a few blowjobs to a few guys would make me feel more comfortable with my sexuality. I was aroused and I enjoyed giving those blowjobs. But neither watching gay porn or having a few sexual experiences hasn't made me any more comfortable at all, with who I am as a person.

I come from an extremely traditional, very conservative, very Republican kind of family where being "gay" is unacceptable and shameful. My Dad was a vocal supporter of Prop 8 and he even donated some money to the Huckabee campaign. It is hard to break one's ties to my family in my culture, as family & respect of elders is everything. My parents still partially support me financially, but there is also an understanding that I have to support them financially & take care of them in their old age. I am their only son, and they expected me to get married and provide them grandchildren to continue the family name.

I'm just tired of being me. I'm tired of trying to convince my own parents -- the people I love & hold most dear to me -- that I'm normal the way I am. I'm tired of trying to convince the world that I'm normal the way I am. As you know, I am an "overweight Asian Indian." I'm tired of trying of trying to fit into the "gay community" around SoCal, where everyone is mostly White & only want to associate with other White people, and everyone either anorexic or has muscular, toned bodies with spray tans and immaculate skin.

I'm just tired of fighting. I've basically given up.

Btw, I wish I could live more "straight." If I could take a pill to become straight, I would do it.

 

[Seasoned]

You have to try stepping outside the family home to peer in the windows. Your parents are wrong. Conservative Republicans are wrong. Homosexuality is as old as man and just because hordes are in denial doesn't make what they say true.

All those Prop 8ers don't have to look far to find a gay person they know. In the higher scheme of things sexual orientation is a non-issue. It's nobody's business what consenting adults chose to do.

It's no more your parent's business what you consent to sexually than it's your business discovering their sexual practices. It's not anyone's business. You must find help for yourself and it seems as if you need a new therapist. I don't know why you're not in group therapy. It could be eye opening for you.

You need to rethink ending your life. Living well with a smile on your face is always the best revenge. I am so pissed at your parents.

 

[bankside]

Well, Rareboy, you probably haven't been struggling as much as I have, but here is my explanation.

I started seeing a "gay-affirmative" therapist (on my own volition, and one of my own choosing) about a year ago, and I would go every 2 weeks. A lot of the things that I said about "reparative therapy" and "God making me this way" were things that my therapist told me, and I was parroting his remarks.

As for being a "confident afficionado of gay porn," I only started watching gay porn because I thought that watching some gay porn would make me more comfortable with my body. I thought that giving a few blowjobs to a few guys would make me feel more comfortable with my sexuality. I was aroused and I enjoyed giving those blowjobs. But neither watching gay porn or having a few sexual experiences hasn't made me any more comfortable at all, with who I am as a person.

I come from an extremely traditional, very conservative, very Republican kind of family where being "gay" is unacceptable and shameful. My Dad was a vocal supporter of Prop 8 and he even donated some money to the Huckabee campaign. It is hard to break one's ties to my family in my culture, as family & respect of elders is everything. My parents still partially support me financially, but there is also an understanding that I have to support them financially & take care of them in their old age. I am their only son, and they expected me to get married and provide them grandchildren to continue the family name.

I'm just tired of being me. I'm tired of trying to convince my own parents -- the people I love & hold most dear to me -- that I'm normal the way I am. I'm tired of trying to convince the world that I'm normal the way I am. As you know, I am an "overweight Asian Indian." I'm tired of trying of trying to fit into the "gay community" around SoCal, where everyone is mostly White & only want to associate with other White people, and everyone either anorexic or has muscular, toned bodies with spray tans and immaculate skin.

I'm just tired of fighting. I've basically given up.

Btw, I wish I could live more "straight." If I could take a pill to become straight, I would do it.

Normal the way you are? Self hate is not normal. As far as being in a world full of white people, if you live in North America or Europe then most people are white. If you moved to Nigeria you'd be in a world full of black people...move to Peru and it's a world full of people with aboriginal ancestry. Move to India....and....

You may be in the ethnic minority in your current country. But as far as being overweight, you fit right in. Wikipedia says 70% of Americans are overweight or obese. Are you inadvertently ignoring overweight people in your own community as you yourself seek out the rare image of idealized musculature?

I'd like to know if you think that some of us come from a family or a culture where parents are not important and respect of elders means nothing! Do you think other people's parents found acceptance without struggle? Nothing could be further from the truth.

It was my grandparents example of a half century of marriage that helped my mom to accept me. I told her I understood what they had found in each other and if I ever hoped to be lucky enough to find that in someone else it would not be with a woman, and that I would not have a fake relationship with a woman when I had seen what a real relationship looks like.

If you are ever going to be of any use to your parents in their old age, you will have to live your life. At the age of 25 it is time to be brave, venture forth, and see what is possible. You don't have to turn your back on your family, nor do you need their permission, to find happiness and a future.

Most of all, quit trying to convince them of something you haven't even convinced yourself is possible.

Or rather you know it's possible, but you're trying to talk yourself out of it for some reason that just makes no sense to me.

 

[Telstra]

Christian psychologist is a NO NO.
Why don't you read cumming out stories here and everywhere on the internet ?


I guess you are not listening and you keep saying "i wish there is a straight pill".

 

[pai mei]

I'm probably going to leave JUB soon.

My parents have spoken to my therapist as well, and they don't think I'm making much progress in accepting myself.

They have seen me be in a much worse state, emotionally, since coming out. I'm alone all the time, and I don't even feel like talking to anyone. I'm just so frustrated, sad, and lonely....

They told me today, during dinner, that they set up appointment for me to speak next week with a Christian psychologist, to see if it is possible if I can live more as a heterosexual, even if I still have "homosexual temptations" once in a while.

I guess I'll go to one session and see what happens. My parents promised me it won't be held in a church or religious building -- all sessions will be held in an office building.

i'm telling you that this will. not. help.

it won't help. you KNOW it won't help, you KNOW it will only serve to hurt you further. don't do that.

 

[KaraBulut]

I already have a therapist, who I sought out on my own (without telling my parents), and I have been seeing about every 2 weeks, over the past year. But if anything, I feel worse and even more frustrated after talking to my therapist. I gave permission for my parents to speak with my therapist, and both my therapist told my parents (and the therapist later told me) that "I'm very conflicted and frustrated about [my] sexuality."

If you don't feel like you're making progress with your therapist, then fire them and get another therapist. Not every therapist is the right therapist for your needs.

And if you're an adult, having your therapist talk to your parents is probably not a wise idea.

 

[Seasoned]

Your parents are ill informed and ill advised. Christian therapy is pseudo science and is dangerous to the homosexual. You are worse off since therapy because you are allowing heterosexist and erroneous notions of Christianity to influence how you feel about yourself. How many times did Jesus "cure" a homosexual? NONE. How many times did he speak out against homosexuality? NONE.

Find yourself an accepting Christian minister and have a chat. Stay away from any self-proclaimed Christian therapist. It's a dangerous scam they are perpetrating on your mind.

 

[bankside]

Christians tried to cure real problems quite ineffectively (malaria or "bad air" for instance) with ritual and prayer and really, really, really wanting to.

And they tried to cure non problems quite ineffectively (left-handedness) with ritual and prayer and really, really, really wanting to.

In all cases, when the ritual doesn't work, the response is the same: blame the patient.

Don't sign up for that crap.

 

[JayQueer]

This is the therapist (I believe) my parents want me to see......his name is Mr. Robert Vazzo in Glendale, California (L.A. area).

I found his website --

http://www.networktherapy.com/vazzo/

http://www.networktherapy.com/vazzo/default.asp?pid=951


Has anyone heard of him before?

 

[Solid Gold]

This is the therapist (I believe) my parents want me to see......his name is Mr. Robert Vazzo in Glendale, California (L.A. area).

I found his website --

http://www.networktherapy.com/vazzo/

http://www.networktherapy.com/vazzo/default.asp?pid=951


Has anyone heard of him before?

OK boys after this and you still think

 

[Solid Gold]

This is the therapist (I believe) my parents want me to see......his name is Mr. Robert Vazzo in Glendale, California (L.A. area).

I found his website --

http://www.networktherapy.com/vazzo/

http://www.networktherapy.com/vazzo/default.asp?pid=951


Has anyone heard of him before?

Jay book a two year session with him. I think he will be the chosen one in your mind to cure you. So glad your parents are rich and can afford this. Take advantage of all the money daddy is willing to spend on fixing your sorry ass. Might as well ask for a fitness club membership and a good plastic surgeon to..just tell the ole man it is a good investment..when you come out looking good and having spent 100's of thousands of his bucks then do us all a favor..make a porn movie and have a family night with them...don't forget the popcorn
Hope to hear from Michelle soon so I can donate she forgot to leave the address

 

[rareboy]

This is the therapist (I believe) my parents want me to see......his name is Mr. Robert Vazzo in Glendale, California (L.A. area).

I found his website --

http://www.networktherapy.com/vazzo/

http://www.networktherapy.com/vazzo/default.asp?pid=951


Has anyone heard of him before?

You know, some people here are going to start to think that the entire trajectory of your story here has been inevitably leading to your 'conversion' from homo to Nomohomo....that the purpose may have been to only be a poster child for reparative therapy all along.

I don't see much difference between a homo convincing himself that he's straight through christian prayer and a frontal lobotomy.

Along the way, we've found out that your affinity for conservative causes is inherently false; that you have done it to please your parents.

We have found out that you only like masculine white guys but have a problem with living in a white community where whites only apparently want to hang out with other whites.

We've heard about you being overweight but have never heard you talk about what you are doing to correct that.

We've heard you repeat again and again that you are bound by ridiculously traditional and unnecessary family strictures.

We've found out that you suffer incredibly from a single rejection by a couple of guys in a WeHo bar, yet you have no problem with rejecting feminine homos or stereotyping them.

I have to say that the voice of the person who wrote that ' B**tch, God made me Gay, it is the way I am' does not mesh with the voice of the person who is now saying that they have given up.

The voice of the person who smoothly and confidently discussed gay porn stars
doesn't sound like the same person who said that they have only been watching to try to get comfortable with their sexuality.

But never mind.

Marcus Bachmann has made it very clear that an effeminate, overweight closet case is perfectly able to marry and breed.

There are tens if not hundreds and hundreds of thousands of homos who have submerged themselves and lived in quiet desperation and self-loathing by marrying in order to make everyone but themselves happy.

I think we'll all just wish you well on your journey, since, as I understand it, once you start to straitjacket your real sexual and emotional identity, you will be forbidden to associate with any homos.

And I can guarantee that you won't have an opportunity to proselytize for reparative therapy on this site.

 

[JayQueer]

UPDATE -- I am not going to see that Christian counselor guy. I told my parents this morning that I couldn't do it. I'm not even Christian -- I'm Hindu. If straight Hindus don't have to "turn to Jesus Christ" to become straight, then why do gay Hindus have to? It never made sense to me.

Plus, I know deep down in my heart that I never "chose" to be gay. For better or worse, I guess I have to somehow come to terms that I really am a gay man. How? I don't know yet.

My parents & I just had a screaming match over this, about 30 minutes ago, when I told them I was not going to that counselor guy.

I'm crying as I write this. It hurts so much to be so alone.....and so lonely.

 

[rareboy]

I want to expand on what I really think about NARTH and their false science and SOCE therapies:

But let me cite this from NARTH's own wikipage, because it seems pretty balanced:

Position of professional organizations on sexual orientation change efforts

Main Article: Sexual orientation change efforts

In 2009 an American Psychological Association research summary[36] included the following statements:

The longstanding consensus of the behavioral and social sciences and the health and mental health professions is that homosexuality per se is a normal and positive variation of human sexual orientation.

SOCE [sexual orientation change efforts] has been controversial due to tensions between the values held by some faith-based organizations, on the one hand, and those held by lesbian, gay and bisexual rights organizations and professional and scientific organizations, on the other.

There are no studies of adequate scientific rigor to conclude whether recent SOCE do work to change a person’s sexual orientation.

Some individuals and groups have promoted the idea of homosexuality as symptomatic of developmental defects or spiritual and moral failings and have argued that SOCE, including psychotherapy and religious efforts, could alter homosexual feelings and behaviors. Many of these individuals and groups appeared to be embedded within the larger context of conservative religious political movements that have supported the stigmatization of homosexuality on political or religious grounds.

No major mental health professional organization has sanctioned efforts to change sexual orientation and most of them have adopted policy statements cautioning the profession and the public about treatments that purport to change sexual orientation. These include the American Psychiatric Association, American Psychological Association, American Counseling Association, National Association of Social Workers in the USA,[37] the Royal College of Psychiatrists,[38] and the Australian Psychological Society.[39]

The American Psychological Association and the Royal College of Psychiatrists expressed concerns that the positions espoused by NARTH are not supported by the science and create an environment in which prejudice and discrimination can flourish.[38][40]

NARTH argues that mainstream health and mental health organizations have, in many cases, taken public positions on homosexuality and same-sex marriage that are based on their own social and political views rather than the available science.[41][42][43][44]

 

[JayQueer]

You know, some people here are going to start to think that the entire trajectory of your story here has been inevitably leading to your 'conversion' from homo to Nomohomo....that the purpose may have been to only be a poster child for reparative therapy all along.

I don't see much difference between a homo convincing himself that he's straight through christian prayer and a frontal lobotomy.

Rareboy, I just said that I told my parents I'm not going to see that Christian counselor. Please stop attacking me

Along the way, we've found out that your affinity for conservative causes is inherently false; that you have done it to please your parents.

Yes. That's true. I always thought that by being conservative, I would please my parents. But even if I didn't want to please them, I find that I have a lot of conservative beliefs -- which is obviously due to my upbringing & cultural values in which I was raised.

We have found out that you only like masculine white guys but have a problem with living in a white community where whites only apparently want to hang out with other whites.

Yes. I am attracted to masculine white guys, but unfortunately 99% of them will never go for an overweight Indian guy like me. I guess white guys prefer guys who look just like them -- which leaves us "others" as the outcasts. I see that you're "partnered" -- I wish someday I can have a partner too. But I realize I may also be alone for the rest of my life and it makes me sad

We've heard about you being overweight but have never heard you talk about what you are doing to correct that.

I exercise regularly and I try to watch my diet. But no matter what I do, I'm still overweight with love handles & a beer belly (and I don't even drink alcohol).

We've heard you repeat again and again that you are bound by ridiculously traditional and unnecessary family strictures.

Traditional? Yes. Unnecessary? I'm not sure. My cultural upbringing and values have inexorably shaped my life, and I can't just toss my familial duties & responsibilities aside just because I'm gay.

We've found out that you suffer incredibly from a single rejection by a couple of guys in a WeHo bar, yet you have no problem with rejecting feminine homos or stereotyping them.

I realize I have a problem, and it's something that I need to work on. But while I am awkward and a little uncomfortable around feminine gay men, I would never insult them in public or deliberately act rude to them in public. I am generally polite and cordial to everyone. Those hip, trendy, athletic gay guys in WeHo laughed at me, and said "ewww" to my face. How do you respond when someone mocks who you are, because of your skin color, or your weight?

 

[rareboy]

I've interspersed my responses in your quoted post.

Rareboy, I just said that I told my parents I'm not going to see that Christian counselor. Please stop attacking me

You reported on this after the post was written.
We're all proud of you for having made a real strong and positive decision.



Yes. That's true. I always thought that by being conservative, I would please my parents. But even if I didn't want to please them, I find that I have a lot of conservative beliefs -- which is obviously due to my upbringing & cultural values in which I was raised.

I have a lot of conservative economic and social beliefs. And a lot of liberal beliefs.
I have no problem going from one party to another and have voted Liberal, Conservative and New Democrat at different levels of government in one year.

But I won't vote for any person or party that isn't respectful of my basic human rights.


Yes. I am attracted to masculine white guys, but unfortunately 99% of them will never go for an overweight Indian guy like me. I guess white guys prefer guys who look just like them -- which leaves us "others" as the outcasts. I see that you're "partnered" -- I wish someday I can have a partner too. But I realize I may also be alone for the rest of my life and it makes me sad

You need to take ownership of what you have and to become the kind of guy that others see as partnership potential. In part, it involves making the most of everything you have.



I exercise regularly and I try to watch my diet. But no matter what I do, I'm still overweight with love handles & a beer belly (and I don't even drink alcohol).

Exercise more than regularly. Cut out sodas of all kinds and anything with HFCS. Cut out msg totally. See your doctor and get a diet you can stick with. Don't let mummy make you feel guilty when you have smaller portions or refuse seconds. Ask her to help by cooking low-fat dishes. Weight is just a matter of caloric intake, calorie burn and metabolism.


Traditional? Yes. Unnecessary? I'm not sure. My cultural upbringing and values have inexorably shaped my life, and I can't just toss my familial duties & responsibilities aside just because I'm gay.

My family's culture and values shaped my life too. So what is the big deal. I kept what I valued as being important to my life and then modified the rest to suit this day and age and the person I am. By doing this, It has been possible to become much more inclusive and respectful of traditions of different cultures all over the world, while also moving forward to adapt to circumstances in this day and age. There's a huge difference between respect and adherence to various values and traditions and being hamstrung or trapped by them. In the end, I was able to do far more for my aging parents as the person I am than as the person who would have been constrained by what traditional roles and behaviour would have permitted.


I realize I have a problem, and it's something that I need to work on. But while I am awkward and a little uncomfortable around feminine gay men, I would never insult them in public or deliberately act rude to them in public. I am generally polite and cordial to everyone. Those hip, trendy, athletic gay guys in WeHo laughed at me, and said "ewww" to my face. How do you respond when someone mocks who you are, because of your skin color, or your weight?

How do you respond? Either by calling them out right then and there and telling them that they have been hurtful or by saying 'Fuck you' or by recognizing them for what they are...superficial little children who are way uglier than anyone they might diss. But I would say, it seems that the first thing you need to do is to get beyond this single event by talking it through with your therapist because it seems to have taken control of your very existence. Half the guys who post here have had this kind of experience at some point in their lives.

You may find this hard to believe, but recently, on a cruise, there were a couple of plastic Ken Doll WeHo's on board and when my partner and I saw them we actually went 'ewwww' (to ourselves), because the plastic surgery and fake tans and pretty clothes made them look ridiculous and unattractive in our eyes.

Subsequently, we ended up talking and having a great time together because while they appeared superficial and unlikable, they were the ones with the greatest insecurities and fear of rejection. Behind the facade, they were just guys after all.

 

[Solid Gold]

Time to hit print and send your parents a copy of our advice. Let them know how you have to come to us for solice. If the dumb fucks can read our advice and still treat you like a less than a human being tell them YOU SUCK AS PARENTS!!! iTS their job to nurture and love no matter what, If they can't then they are the losers not YOU.
I wish you the best BUT if you can't get a grip then maybe instead of asking gay men how to go foreward go to a straight site or better yet DIP YOUR WICK. yOU know it might be the lightbulb moment of your life. If this thread continues I do have ideas for a made for TV movie that could probably bring in about $147.50. AFTER TAXES. lET ME KNOW

 

[bankside]

Congrats on telling the truth to your parents. Now take some time to relax. Don't get into the debate with your parents. Tell them it is not a subject for discussion.

You can reassure them you understand why they're concerned but you're not thinking about it for the moment at all one way or the other and want to focus on your studies/career. There is no need to have a further conversation with them on the topic.

That will give you some space to explore where your home is in the gay community. I believe you have a place there, but you need to explore that for yourself, and you don't need to check in with your parents on the subject until you have made up your own mind.

 

[cdninweho]

I am in the LA area myself and am a Minister at a church that is almost exclusively gays and lesbians. If you want to talk to someone who affirms your sexual identity/orientation and can help you through the challenges with your family, send me a PM.

While I am Christian, I do have friends of other faiths who are also spiritual leaders who might be willing to talk to you.

And yes, I am trained in pastoral counselling; probably more trained than the N.A.R.T.H. fraud guy in Glendale.

 

[dale_nx26]

I used to feel the same as you. I'm Southeast Asian. I thought the body that I was born in would prevent me from finding love. I was also overweight, something that I was NOT born to be. So I had a large self esteem issue. I was bullied a lot in school so that left a scar, too. Despite all the problem I faced, I constant think of all the good things in life I am fortunate to have. The thing I was/am most thankful for were/are my awesome supportive friends. Without them, life would just suck and I wouldn't be where I am today. I also think that there are always people worse off then me (and there are!) I took control what I can change such as my weight and now I am happy about my body status. Altogether, friends and taking as much control as I can on my appearance has boosted my confidence so much!

So my advice is surround yourself with people who loves you--gay, straight, whoever you can find. These people will give you motivation and acceptance. Next think of what you have that others don't and always remind yourself that even though there's always going to be "better" people than you, there are always going to be people "worse" than you as well. ALWAYS. Then focus on what you can do to make things even better. One of which is weight. Even though this requires self-motivation and persistence, it is something you can change! Go jogging, do crunches, eat healthy. Take control of your life! But the most important is definitely find caring people. They will kick start you to a better life whether they intentionally do or not, because when you're around them you can't help but enjoy their presence and be happy!