Hacked Emails Show Climate Science Ridden with Rancor

[White Eagle]

I found this lengthy article at Factcheck. I don't know of any reason to distrust Factcheck, but the article shows sources for it at the bottom.
I'll leave the discussion to those in the forum that know what they're talking about. I will admit this is over my head and y'all are doing just fine.

http://factcheck.org/2009/12/climategate/

New FactCheck Article:

"Climategate"

December 10, 2009

Summary

In late November 2009, more than 1,000 e-mails between scientists at the Climate Research Unit of the U.K.’s University of East Anglia were stolen and made public by an as-yet-unnamed hacker. Climate skeptics are claiming that they show scientific misconduct that amounts to the complete fabrication of man-made global warming. We find that to be unfounded:

 

[Ambrocious]

I found this interesting letter to the Economist:

Now that we know from leaked e-mails that some of the raw data behind the most widely used graph of global temperatures have been lost or discarded; now that we know that the peer-review process in climate science has been hopelessly incestuous; now that we know that some skeptics’ concerns about corrections for urban heat islands were privately shared by those who dismissed them in public; now that we know that proxy graphs were truncated specifically to “hide the decline” and avoid giving fodder to the skeptics – you are free to start covering the science of climate change again...It is not settled.

Please post which email that was too. I have all the leaked info and I would like to know what it's called.

 

[Kulindahr]

I found this lengthy article at Factcheck. I don't know of any reason to distrust Factcheck, but the article shows sources for it at the bottom.
I'll leave the discussion to those in the forum that know what they're talking about. I will admit this is over my head and y'all are doing just fine.

http://factcheck.org/2009/12/climategate/

It's nice to see that someone rational has sat down and sifted through it all. Thanks for the link!

BTW, I came across in there a term I was wracking my brains trying to remember the other day: "human forcing". That's an excellent term, better than the "anthropogenic" tossed around in a batch of those emails, because it inherently acknowledges that we aren't the sole cause, while highlighting what I was trying to describe (when I was trying to recall the term), that while we may not have started the fire, we're grabbing fuel and piling it higher.

I was pleased a great deal that their conclusions about the emails discussed was the same as mine on those I've seen. I guess that though I'm a good piece down the road from my general science degree, it wasn't a complete waste.

 

[Kulindahr]

Please post which email that was too. I have all the leaked info and I would like to know what it's called.

You reminded me of a question I had: why are we calling it "leaked"? it was stolen.

 

[White Eagle]

Did I hear of another large ice berg, twice the size of Manhattan, broke loose and is floating. I couldn't find anything on a new one, but saw where one broke off of Antarctica in 2000 and is drifting toward Australia.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34380916/ns/world_news-world_environment/

Are the boogie men responsible for this? Are they trying to kill all of us poor people with ice bergs?

 

[Kulindahr]

Like the Iceberg-15 in 2000, and the break up of the Larsen B Iceshelf in 2002, this one is yet another major loss of ice coverage in Antarctica and indicative of a trend. It is drifting towards Australia, which has released shipping advisories of its 54 square mile size and unpredictability.

Unpredictable is right: they ride deep, deep in the water, which means currents grab them. They present a huge vertical surface, which means winds can drive them.

Depending on how the top is, someone could set up a temporary resort....

 

[Kulindahr]

Oh -- BTW: http://www.nick.com/all_nick/tv_supersites/nick_news/stories_daily.jhtml?pollId=470924700&wstory=0

 

[White Eagle]

Oh -- BTW: http://www.nick.com/all_nick/tv_supersites/nick_news/stories_daily.jhtml?pollId=470924700&wstory=0

This must be what I heard on the news. But if it broke loose 10 years ago, why are we just now hearing it in the news? Weird but not surprising.

Also, I've already admitted to not knowing much at all about the Global Warming Science. I ran across this article and wondered if this is where a lot of the skepticism is coming from. For a long time I have distrusted anyone from the right and this would not surprise me as to the people crying hoax.

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/12/07/koch-swiftboat-science/

Right-Wing Billionaire David Koch Funding SwiftBoat Campaign Against Global Warming Science

David Koch with his wife, Julie Right-wing billionaire David Koch, who along with his brother Charles owns the oil and gas empire Koch Industries, constantly presents himself as a champion of science. Next year, a wing of the Smithsonian will be named after him because of his generous donations. Indeed, in accepting Koch’s donations, the Smithsonian Human Origins Program director Rick Potts attempted to whitewash Koch’s philanthropist history:

Further on down in the article is about the Global Warming.

 

[Kulindahr]

This must be what I heard on the news. But if it broke loose 10 years ago, why are we just now hearing it in the news? Weird but not surprising.

We actually did hear about it back when it broke off. Since then, though, it's just been piddling around the Antarctic pond, so was of no interest to anyone but scientists and the ocean trawlers which go down there.

Now it's drifting into shipping lanes, which makes a new and more interesting story.

Also, I've already admitted to not knowing much at all about the Global Warming Science. I ran across this article and wondered if this is where a lot of the skepticism is coming from. For a long time I have distrusted anyone from the right and this would not surprise me as to the people crying hoax.

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/12/07/koch-swiftboat-science/

I won't say what I really think about Koch, because I try to avoid using those kind of words in public. What I will say is that both the brothers have a history of lying to fool the public when it's in their bottom-line interest. They would have been quite at home in old late-empire Roman trade, where the only difference between a pirate and a merchant was that the pirate relied solely on theft.

As for global warming, due to my experience with gobs of raw data, and following things since, I am more confident that the globe is heating up, and that that heating is human-forced, than I am of next weekend's weather forecast.

 

[01solara]

This article at Reuters is pretty interesting. To me it validates the politicization of the issue. Note that the defenders are playing the usual political defense approach. Once politics got involved, this issue lost all credibility. I especially like the comment about how they use language they understand and those outside wouldn't necessarily. So now we're not only considered "the little people" by Congress, science has seen fit to relegate us as well. Screw them! There has been countless retorts by scientists over this issue. Even some of those quoted by Gore in his "movie" have come back to say, "Well...that's not exactly what we meant." Back to the lab and stop shopping for grant money by hyping up the politico.

I do not believe that even Al Gore believes the shit he spews out. If he were really concerned about global warming he would adapt his lifestyle to reduce his carbon footprint instead of finding ever more ways to use it to get richer and richer. He has no credibility on the issue when he is burning vast amounts of fossil fuels jetting around the globe and heating and cooling his mansions. When people really believe in their cause they live by the sermons they preach. He is one of the primary political movers and shakers on this and he is a big fat hypocrite. Not many years ago we were warned of the coming ice age science changes when nature does not act as they tell it to. Nature is in charge here not Al Gore or the chicken little global warming advocates. If you want to know what is really going on follow the money.

 

[Telstra]

Take a fresh look through open eyes...

You believe in 2012 (end of the world). That says a lot about you ...

 

[JB3]

You reminded me of a question I had: why are we calling it "leaked"? it was stolen.

So? What does it matter how the data was released, its out there now and it should be disseminated, and conclusions should be reached after investigations run their course.

 

[JB3]

I just want to throw in that science is kinda like the opposite of emotional

Except when emotion becomes involved as it has with climate change. Largely due to Gore, there is this level of irrational fear that has been created, and a level of emotional urgency (I think that's the best way of putting it) that is straining credibility. Scientists badly WANT to reach conclusions with this, and they're under great pressure to do so.

I have no doubt that the entire debate around this issue would be completely different were it not for Gore's fear-mongering.

 

[Kulindahr]

When icebergs are square miles... they look like this...

I know.

But on top, they can look like this:

or this:

or this:

http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/222872main_ice_field_lg.jpg


and then you can get ones that from the side look like this:

So I was just wondering: does this baby have streams and lakes, a jumbled pile, or what -- and what's the 'foundation' like?

 

[Kulindahr]

I do not believe that even Al Gore believes the shit he spews out. If he were really concerned about global warming he would adapt his lifestyle to reduce his carbon footprint instead of finding ever more ways to use it to get richer and richer. He has no credibility on the issue when he is burning vast amounts of fossil fuels jetting around the globe and heating and cooling his mansions. When people really believe in their cause they live by the sermons they preach. He is one of the primary political movers and shakers on this and he is a big fat hypocrite. Not many years ago we were warned of the coming ice age science changes when nature does not act as they tell it to. Nature is in charge here not Al Gore or the chicken little global warming advocates. If you want to know what is really going on follow the money.

For what Gore lives in, his carbon footprint is pretty good.

If people need convincing, what do you think he should do -- sit on his ass at home? Seems to me if you think people need to learn about something urgently, you go around talking to people.

Money no longer cares what's happening in the real world; they can make money off of losing money. All that following the money does is tell you what the latest thing is that people are taking advantage of.

So don't follow the money, follow the science. It is overwhelming, regardless of fatuous lip-flappers full of themselves flinging their faulty accusations about.

 

[01solara]

For what Gore lives in, his carbon footprint is pretty good.

He should be living somewhere that has a small footprint not a small foot print for where he lives.

If people need convincing, what do you think he should do -- sit on his ass at home? Seems to me if you think people need to learn about something urgently, you go around talking to people.

It is the modern age he doesn't have to travel anywhere to hold conferences or seminars. Webinars happen every day now in the private sector. He needs to get with the times.

Money no longer cares what's happening in the real world; they can make money off of losing money. All that following the money does is tell you what the latest thing is that people are taking advantage of.

I have to agree to an extent on this one. But, money is interested in making more. Thing is if perpetuating a lie gets them more it is what they will do.

So don't follow the money, follow the science. It is overwhelming, regardless of fatuous lip-flappers full of themselves flinging their faulty accusations about.

Follow which ones though there is now agreement among all of them by any means.

 

[Ambrocious]

You believe in 2012 (end of the world). That says a lot about you ...

When did I say that 2012 was the end of the world sir? The end of the world...I don't think our earth will be destroyed completely anytime soon. I know that we will be going through a whole lot of problems that we always have gone through but in a much more amped up way.

My opinion is that the United States is on the verge of the next civil war. I do not have a time table for this as I am not a professional. I do think that once the majority of the people are informed of the massive fraud that they have been subjected to finally creeps forth, the people will revolt.

 

[Ambrocious]

About all of this climate fraud going on, in the middle of it all, 30,000 scientist, along with the founder of the Weather Channel are Suing Al Gore for this fraud of man made climate change. Do scientist even know what their talking about???

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfHW7KR33IQ]30,000 Want To Sue Al Gore[/ame]

 

[Corny]

Do scientist even know what their talking about???

It seems about 30,000 don't.

At least if somebody believes this number .. or believes that those are scientists. And scientists that actually do research in that field.

I'll guess some if not all of the above is not the case .. maybe they found a 30,000 rednecks who bought a Phd from some online viagra store?

 

[Kulindahr]

It seems about 30,000 don't.

At least if somebody believes this number .. or believes that those are scientists. And scientists that actually do research in that field.

I'll guess some if not all of the above is not the case .. maybe they found a 30,000 rednecks who bought a Phd from some online viagra store?

A good number of those 30,000 are scientists who work with data obtained by satellite. There's a great amount of disagreement between them and the ground-based folks, because the increase shown from satellite data is far, far smaller than shown by ground data.

I wasn't aware of that till recently; in college everything I got to see was ground-based.


BTW, if you listened to the vid, only 9,000 are PhD.s