Haley Barbour's controversial pardons

[Ninja108]

I wouldn't care whether it was a Republician or Democrat that did these moves...they are just plain wrong.
This isn't a case where an abused wife killed her abuser or a kid got sentenced to life under the felony murder even when he didn't pull the trigger.
These are cases where people engaged in domestic violence and finally killed the people they had been abusing when they finally decided to take control of their lives and leave.
Also keep this in mind..one of the men pardoned still has a living victim to his crime..what's to say he or the others won't do it again?

 

[CowboyBob]

Interesting that the right wing has to dig back a decade to defend something a republican did now.

If you're all for these pardons, let the families of the murderer victims and the women who were raped know your feelings. Use the Clinton defense.

I'm sure they'll agree with you.

 

[JayHawk]

Blah blah blah blah blah. Oh please. No point in bothering with you when you're happy tell me what I say and argue against it without me ever having to be involved.

Convenient that.

Tell ya what when you have pardoning power via elected office you can then decide who gets pardoned.

 

[swerve]

^Just don't do it on your last day in office...

It either WILL stand up to political scrutiny -- or it won't...

 

[TX-Beau]

Tell ya what when you have pardoning power via elected office you can then decide who gets pardoned.

Tell you what, when you comment on something I actually said I'll be happy to consider it.

 

[JayHawk]

Well it is apparent that I don't find the pardons abusive.

Executive right.
if anything it is another level of scrutiny you should place upon a man or women when voting for them. Would they act as you wish when exercising the right of pardon.


Swerve, i understand what you are saying but I am unaware of many instances where it isn't used for political payback and it is always at the end of a term.

 

[JB3]

Case in point why Governors and Presidents shouldn't have this power...

 

[hotatlboi]

Case in point why Governors and Presidents shouldn't have this power...

The dumbest thing (that I didn't know of until now) is not that the person is just released, it's that their record is cleared also.

If a murderer does his time and gets released, he's still a convicted murderer and has many restrictions like he can't own a gun, can't vote in most cases, etc.

But with a pardon it's like they were never convicted and they have all the rights of any citizen that never committed a crime.

 

[JayHawk]

Hence the term... pardon. or forgiven.


I fail to understand why the rights of those who have paid their debt to society are reduced.

perhaps gun ownership could be the major contention. But prevention from owning a professional license. Prevention from voting.

Seems like we say hey go do this and behave and you will be rehabilitated to join our society. Oh but just so ya know we don't want you in our society. Even if you paid for your crime.

In Virginia they have a dress code for freed felons and parolees. If a cop feel you are dressed badly he can arrest you. How is that for fascist state.

 

[TX-Beau]

What we say is don't murder people and your rights will not be infringed, but if you do - this is what happens.

Because losing certain rights is part of the debt they must pay.

Is it moral? Ethical? Grey fucking area, should convicted child molesters who's recidivism rate is astronomical be considered no risk once their prison sentence is up?

Should murderers be allowed free access to weapons?

If you don't like this, that's for you to take up with your legislature.

There is no clear answer.

 

[swerve]

I wonder if the SAME people that are agains pardons -- are also doing away with bankruptcy...

Its the same concept...

 

[CowboyBob]

I wonder if the SAME people that are agains pardons -- are also doing away with bankruptcy...

Its the same concept...

Erasing a murderer's crime record is definitely not the same as filing for bankruptcy.

 

[JayHawk]

Why not Bob? Due to the bankruptcy filings all across America how many people are starving to death?

the idea is that a second chance is a second chance.

Would you all like a second chance?

 

[chrisrobin]

Why not Bob? Due to the bankruptcy filings all across America how many people are starving to death?

the idea is that a second chance is a second chance.

Would you all like a second chance?

_ _

 

[jackoroe]

Interesting that the right wing has to dig back a decade to defend something a republican did now.

If you're all for these pardons, let the families of the murderer victims and the women who were raped know your feelings. Use the Clinton defense.

I'm sure they'll agree with you.

The point being that this isn't the first time we've been down this road. So what changes? Nothing. We all complain and whine when any executive pardons or otherwise commutes a sentence on their way out the door.

But nothing gets done about that executive's power to pardon. It stays exactly the same as it's always been. Why? Because the other party knows they want the chance to use it sometime in the future. It's nothing more than institutionalized hypocrisy.

 

[TX-Beau]

Why not Bob? Due to the bankruptcy filings all across America how many people are starving to death?

the idea is that a second chance is a second chance.

Would you all like a second chance?

Parole isn't a second chance. Reintegration of released convicts has always been a touchy issue. Especially in a society where the right is against programs like prisoner education that significantly reduce recidivism rates in order to appear tough on crime.

Mandatory sentencing is also part of the problem, creating classes of inmates that might otherwise not be inmates. The war on drugs is a problem, bloating the prison system with non violent or petty offenders mandatorily sentenced.

You're going to have to explain how bankruptcy filings are causing people to starve to death all over the country because that just sounds ridiculous.

How many people are starving to death because of bankruptcy and what does that have to do with pardons? Thanks to the new bankruptcy laws pushed by the right, bankruptcy protections have been severely weakened.

 

[TX-Beau]

The point being that this isn't the first time we've been down this road. So what changes? Nothing. We all complain and whine when any executive pardons or otherwise commutes a sentence on their way out the door.

But nothing gets done about that executive's power to pardon. It stays exactly the same as it's always been. Why? Because the other party knows they want the chance to use it sometime in the future. It's nothing more than institutionalized hypocrisy.

The pardon isn't the problem. We need a legal mechanism in place for pardons because our legal system and the people who run it are not without fault or error.

But when you have politicians abusing the pardon, like Bush the younger who refused to pardon men on death row who it was proven were wrongly convicted (because and I quote "they had a fair trial,") then handing out pardons to cronies and friends - there is a problem.

There are two issues here, people talking about the institution of the pardon, and people talking about what Barbour did with it. These are not the same arguments.

I have yet to see anyone in here or anywhere else saying there should be no institution, I have heard a lot of people saying Barbour abused it.


SO what do you do? You can take that power away from the politician, but then give it to whom? Whomever must be outside the legal system or the pardon has no force, you can't give it to people doing the convicting because it's meant to be a check on those very same people, so if not our elected leaders, whom?

 

[JayHawk]

I just don't see why it is news.

Only the Executive should have pardon ability because aprtisan politics would keep an actually deserved pardon from being carried out.

http://www.criminaljusticedegreesgu...ontroversial-prisoner-pardons-in-history.html

 

[rareboy]

Why not Bob? Due to the bankruptcy filings all across America how many people are starving to death?

the idea is that a second chance is a second chance.

Would you all like a second chance?

Nope.

Just throw the switch.

 

[chance1]

Everyone deserves a 2nd ...... 3rd ........ And 4th chance

Specially if they're good looking