Hate to be the bearer of bad news but

[SonOfSlobone]

No doubt there are a lot of black men who hate themselves for being gay, because that's all they heard from their family and community growing up.

But don't underestimate the number of white men, Asian men, Hispanic men, etc. who are in the same boat. Go to the Coming Out & Relationship forum nearly any day and you'll see letters from these guys. They usually don't identify themselves by race, but my guess is it's a pretty representative sample.

Whether the numbers are higher in the black community than elsewhere -- hard to say. Nobody's really been able to get actual numbers on, for example, how many black guys vs. white guys are on the down low.

As for why we don't hear as much of that kind of thing on JUB as on other forums, I think it's pretty clear that this isn't a place where somebody who's ashamed of being gay is likely to find much sympathy. But who knows who's out there lurking?

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

I've studied issues that plagued both gay and black communities and as a sociology major, we're taught to approach these issues with critical thinking, openness and an analytical approach.

There was nothing constructive about your original post. I found entirely offensive. You can talk about the history the black community faced and WHY there is an issue with homophobia, why there is such an emphasis on this hypermasculinity and such a push to prove your manliness.

In other words, you agree with me but you don't like my wording?

I gave you guys' intelligence the benefit of the doubt. I assumed that when you read this there'd be an unspoken understanding that I'm not talking about every black gay American from Hawaii to New York. As a matter of fact I remember explicitly stating that, what, four times now?

Somebody wake me when we can have candid discussions here without the PC Fuzz showin' up.

 

[Apollo]

Nik, I can always count on you to help a brotha out when he's dealing with people who don't know what they're talking about.

In these guys' defense, they obviously don't pay attention to these kinda things so it's unsurprising that what's common knowledge to you and I is a complete shocker to them.

God bless you for actually paying attention to the world. Guys like you give me hope.

So because I don't see what you see despite living it all my life and being in this shit all my life, I am not paying attention to the world?

...riiight, well you keep down that path.

This message board never ceases to amaze me, even after all this time. Damn...

 

[Ram]

​

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

So because I don't see what you see despite living it all my life and being in this shit all my life, I am not paying attention to the world?

Perhaps you misread my poorly worded first post. This isn't about individual experiences. This doesn't reflect my life and I only know one person that fits this bill, an ex boyfriend.

I'm discussing a COMMUNITY issue, a collection of experiences, enough that various organizations have taken note. Are they wrong too?

 

[Jersey Domino]

This thread ignores brown people.

I know some people who hate their sexuality but I don't think it's because of religion. They are afraid to lose their family and the society that supports them. It may look like religion is to be blamed here, but really, it's all about family and acceptance.

I know this is OOT but fuck, is it me or is that lucky7 dude hot hot hot?

I think this is generally the problem. There are alot of people out there who will disown their kids if they ever found out they are gay. Which just baffles me really.

But really I think it's just a mix of Society and Religion.

 

[SonOfSlobone]

By the way, here's a link to that study I saw a while back about the attitudes of black heterosexuals to homosexuality:

http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/jsr_95_pre.pdf

It's kind of interesting for a number of reasons. The number of heterosexual men who agreed with the statement "Sex between two men is just plain wrong" was 69% for white men and 74% for black men. Not a huge difference, but kind of an alarming number in any event, right?

When asked whether they agreed with the statement "male homosexuals are disgusting", 57% of black men agreed, but 58% of white men agreed.

And there's a lot more interesting stuff in the study...

EDIT: this could be a pretty old study. I couldn't find the date for it, but their citations stop in 1993...

RE-EDIT: It came out in 1995.

 

[Apollo]

Perhaps you misread my poorly worded first post. This isn't about individual experiences. This doesn't reflect my life and I only know one person that fits this bill, an ex boyfriend.

I'm discussing a COMMUNITY issue, a collection of experiences, enough that various organizations have taken note. Are they wrong too?

We gotta get those poorly worded OP's fixed. We can't have you offending people left and right now.

And you can never assume anything when writing a post on this board.

A community issue, yes. But this isn't just a black community issue that we are dealing with. Although HIV is running rampant in the black community.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

Solomon, not enough has changed since '93 to discredit the article.

 

[Jayden]

Why does it have to be either/or? >lightbulb<

Keep on digging. You may soon reach china. Instead of answering people your just attacking and insulting them. Since when did you become the speaker for all gay black men?

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

We gotta get those poorly worded OP's fixed.

Blame it on the a-a-a-a-a-alcohol.

We can't have you offending people left and right now.

I've given up on NOT offending people. It's nearly impossible.

But this isn't just a black community issue that we are dealing with. Although HIV is running rampant in the black community.

Of course it's not just a black problem, who said it is?

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

Keep on digging. You may soon reach china. Instead of answering people your just attacking and insulting them. Since when did you become the speaker for all gay black men?

Since no one here has been able to present a resaonable argument against what I'm saying. >two lightbulbs<

I'm not the speaker for all gay black men. None of us are speakers for anyone but ourselves. Since when does that prevent social and cultural commentary? Ever heard of sociology?

 

[SonOfSlobone]

Here's a more recent study, from 2003:

http://poq.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/67/1/59

The abstract says:

Black homophobia has been cited as a contributing factor in slowing mobilization against AIDS in the African-American community, as an obstacle to black lesbians and gay men in coming to terms with their sexuality, and as a challenge to the legitimacy of the gay rights movement. Yet evidence that blacks are more homophobic than whites is quite limited. This article uses responses from almost seven thousand blacks and forty-three thousand whites in 31 surveys conducted since 1973 to give more definitive answers on black-white attitudinal differences and their demographic roots. Despite their greater disapproval of homosexuality, blacks' opinions on sodomy laws, gay civil liberties, and employment discrimination are quite similar to whites' opinions, and African Americans are more likely to support laws prohibiting antigay discrimination. Once religious and educational differences are controlled, blacks remain more disapproving of homosexuality but are moderately more supportive of gay civil liberties and markedly more opposed to antigay employment discrimination than are whites. Yet religion, education, gender, and age all have weaker impacts on black than on white attitudes, suggesting that black and white attitudes have different roots.

I highlighted the part about religious differences, because that's what apparently happened with Prop 8. People tended to vote for or against it depending on how religious they were, and a higher percentage of black people than white people go to church regularly.

 

[Apollo]

Of course it's not just a black problem, who said it is?

Please refer to OP please.

 

[Jayden]

Since no one here has been able to present a resaonable argument against what I'm saying. >two lightbulbs<

I'm not the speaker for all gay black men. None of us are speakers for anyone but ourselves. Since when does that prevent social and cultural commentary? Ever heard of sociology?

You know pulling the shoe out of your mouth and just moving on isnt such a bad thing at times. Clearly not one other gay black man on this board agrees with you. Now time for you to turn on a lighbulb and see the light.

 

[Apollo]

Here's a more recent study, from 2003:

http://poq.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/67/1/59

The abstract says:



I highlighted the part about religious differences, because that's what apparently happened with Prop 8. People tended to vote for or against it depending on how religious they were, and a higher percentage of black people than white people go to church regularly.

You also highlighted educational differences. While religion is a huge contributing factor, they also arent being educated on the truth about homosexuality and the like.

Lack of education also contributed to the vote on Prop 8 and all the other propositions in the country (lets not forget california is only ONE state)

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

Please refer to OP please.

The OP doesn't say this problem is exclusive to gay black men. Could you kindly point out where it (allegedly) does?

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

You know pulling the shoe out of your mouth and just moving on isnt such a bad thing at times. Clearly not one other gay black man on this board agrees with you. Now time for you to turn on a lighbulb and see the light.

Need I restate that they haven't presented any sound arguments? For the tenth time, if I'm wrong somewhere, kindly show me.

I could name a million things throughout history that people disagreed yet were true.

 

[Apollo]

gay black men hate themselves. And you guys (white gays). Many of them grew up in hostile, homophobic, insanely-strict religious households and neighborhoods and have been successfully taught to loathe homosexuality in themselves, in others.

They sit silently in the pew every week as the preacher reminds them that they're an abomination and that homosexuality is nothing but a hypersexual condition. The offspring of this are the DL phenomenon, marrying women and raising families to keep moms off their back, and promiscuity. Since their own community hates them and they hate themselves, they seek whatever gratifications they can find, namely sex, which (partially) explains the sky-high STD numbers.

I can make the same gay marriage or DADT thread here and on a black gay forum and the responses would be like night and day. JUB would cry for justice and equality, the black forum would demand that we stop "throwing our sexuality in people's faces" and "stop promoting this trashy lifestyle." (this assuming that JUB is a predominantly white message board on my part - Apollo side note)

This is why they're not at the marches, signing the petitions or demanding equality from our government. I made a thread on a black gay forum about including sexual orientation in the high-school curriculum and the way they responded you'd think I suggested burning babies and eating the charred flesh.

..........................

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

So I said some black gays are racist. Is that untrue? I don't feel so defensive about my race that I can't point out some of our ills.

For the 20th time, if I'm wrong somewhere, can someone point it out?