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Healthcare going forward

rareboy said:
And that is relevant to the GOP designing a health care system how?

Face it. Trump lied. There is no health care plan...the White House never put a thing forward, even though Trump kept promising that it was coming.

The GOP in the House and Senate is utterly incapable of developing a health care plan as well.

Obamacare's worst flaw is that it doesn't have a public option and still left coverage in the hands of rapacious insurers.

As I said...you are all fucked.
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Most Americans have health insurance.
 
rareboy said:
The 'white labour' that built the north was more often than not indentured servitude. And many of the 'whites' you refer to weren't considered 'white' when they first arrived to do the heavy lifting. Europeans and Irish were often considered to be almost sub-human and were exploited to the greatest degree possible. It was only because of the theft of a continent from the aboriginals that it was possible for early settlers to rise out of their near slavery and stake claims on farmland, timberland, minerals etc. etc. and then they literally bred themselves a free workforce over the next three generations.

But this is all a distraction and derailment of the thread.
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This is why the Continental Congress had to engage in fancy footwork to keep the Revolution on-target. Had they not been able to get the "backwoods" boys -- Scots and Irish -- more angry at the Redcoats than at the aristocratic colonial landowners, it would have been a whole different story.


Now we have the same aristocratic attitude in today's GOP, but the "backwoods" folks of today haven't yet figured out they're being played for fools (for that matter, the Democrats have the same problem, but more Democrats figured it out, leaving the aristocrats in the lurch). They will eventually, and when they do the aristocratic rich had better either live up to the country's Judeo-Christian heritage and get busy helping their fellow man, or get ready for (as one billionaire warns) the pitchforks.
 
Kulindahr said:
This is why the Continental Congress had to engage in fancy footwork to keep the Revolution on-target. Had they not been able to get the "backwoods" boys -- Scots and Irish -- more angry at the Redcoats than at the aristocratic colonial landowners, it would have been a whole different story.


Now we have the same aristocratic attitude in today's GOP, but the "backwoods" folks of today haven't yet figured out they're being played for fools (for that matter, the Democrats have the same problem, but more Democrats figured it out, leaving the aristocrats in the lurch). They will eventually, and when they do the aristocratic rich had better either live up to the country's Judeo-Christian heritage and get busy helping their fellow man, or get ready for (as one billionaire warns) the pitchforks.
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On target, and worth noting for its accurate appraisal.
 
Benvolio said:
Some day the dems will come pack into power and will change any system to benefit their electorate.
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Corrected:

...and will change any system to benefit [STRIKE]their electorate[/STRIKE] everyone.

Why? Because in order to write a law that benefits everyone who votes for Democrats, the law has to benefit everyone.
 
ballcaphair said:
Ben, Since you keep posting broad brushes to this whole mess, here's one from me: America's governmental landscape is bipolar and dissociated. Period. I will not defend it. I will not explain it. I will not perpetuate it. I will become informed and engaged.
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You should read this:

How American Politics Went Insane


Important paragraph:

"Although Capitol Hill and the campaign trail are miles apart, the breakdown in order in both places reflects the underlying reality that there no longer is any such thing as a party leader. There are only individual actors, pursuing their own political interests and ideological missions willy-nilly, like excited gas molecules in an overheated balloon."
 
Benvolio said:
Most Americans have health insurance.
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And thirty to forty million of those who do can't afford to use it.

This has been documented by Newsweek and others.

So many, if not most, Americans with insurance are like people renting a car only to find it has no wheels: the rental company gets 100% profit and the renter gets nothing.

Such a system cannot be called "business" in any meaningful sense; the more accurate term would be "piracy".
 
gsdx said:
Show some numbers, and they had better be more than 50%. Otherwise, you might as well say that most Americans like blue Smarties.
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It's easy to find figures on how many Americans don't have insurance, but not so easy to fund the number of those who do. I wanted to find the number who do, and subtract the figure of thirty million that Newsweek gives for not being able to afford to use it. I found a figure of 200 million with private plans, through employers, self-purchased, group plans through church, and such, but that doesn't include military or Medicare; it also includes any kind of coverage, even if it's only for accidents.

So even if he has a figure that says eighty percent are covered, that's really meaningless unless we know what's covered -- and as I noted, whether they can afford to use it.
 
Kulindahr said:
You should read this:

How American Politics Went Insane


Important paragraph:

"Although Capitol Hill and the campaign trail are miles apart, the breakdown in order in both places reflects the underlying reality that there no longer is any such thing as a party leader. There are only individual actors, pursuing their own political interests and ideological missions willy-nilly, like excited gas molecules in an overheated balloon."
Click to expand...

Thank you for this. Misery loves company and so I believe this article just fell out of my head. Really, thank you Kulindahr. I've got no point of reference and apparently I am not alone, which is the very least consolation. I'm not brilliant, but with an English minor, you'd think I could articulate WTF with SOME nuance. I cannot.
 
Benvolio said:
Indentured servitude is not involuntary.
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And herein lies the problem: you do not read nor learn.

I provided links to explain indentured servitude in the previous post. The links were to The Bloody Code and there was another link from there that you could follow to the Transportation Act of 1717. I'll make it easy for you, here's the quote from those links:
As the 17th century drew to a close, lawmakers sought a less harsh punishment that might still deter potential offenders; penal transportation with a term of indentured servitude became the more common punishment.
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The Transportation Act 1717 was an Act of the Parliament of Great Britain that established a regulated, bonded system to transport criminals to colonies in North America for indentured service, as a punishment for those convicted or attained in Great Britain, excluding Scotland...The act established a seven-year transportation sentence as a punishment for people convicted of lesser felonies (those under the benefit of clergy), and a fourteen-year sentence for more serious crimes, in lieu of capital punishment. Completion of the sentence had the effect of a pardon; the punishment for returning before completion was death. An estimated 50,000 convicts (women, men and children) were transported to the British American colonies.*
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*Pssst. If you're convicted of a crime and deported on an indenture, it's involuntary. Especially if the punishment for returning before the end of your contract is your execution.

Benvolio said:
...In 2022...
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Apparently, your insights into the future are only equaled by your insights into the past.
 
ballcaphair said:
Thank you for this. Misery loves company and so I believe this article just fell out of my head. Really, thank you Kulindahr. I've got no point of reference and apparently I am not alone, which is the very least consolation. I'm not brilliant, but with an English minor, you'd think I could articulate WTF with SOME nuance. I cannot.
Click to expand...

I taught remedial reading comprehension and writing for college freshmen. One thing I learned is that people can be quite good at understanding something without being able to express it well at all. Practice helps, of course, but don't bash yourself over not being able to express things eloquently so long as you understand them.
 
KaraBulut said:
And herein lies the problem: you do not read nor learn.

I provided links to explain indentured servitude in the previous post. The links were to The Bloody Code and there was another link from there that you could follow to the Transportation Act of 1717. I'll make it easy for you, here's the quote from those links:


*Pssst. If you're convicted of a crime and deported on an indenture, it's involuntary. Especially if the punishment for returning before the end of your contract is your execution.


Apparently, your insights into the future are only equaled by your insights into the past.
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Several times the prison ships holding debtors (because the debtors' prison wasn't big enough) were emptied by declaring them all felons and hauling them off to America, according to a history of the Royal Navy I read. Some were just dumped in Georgia, but most were sold into indentured servanthood. And depending on to whom a debt was owed, a person could end up in debtor's prison for an amounts less than a pound.
 
Kulindahr said:
Several times the prison ships holding debtors (because the debtors' prison wasn't big enough) were emptied by declaring them all felons and hauling them off to America, according to a history of the Royal Navy I read. Some were just dumped in Georgia, but most were sold into indentured servanthood. And depending on to whom a debt was owed, a person could end up in debtor's prison for an amounts less than a pound.
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In any discussion about Tasmania or Australia, invariably someone mentions that these countries were originally penal colonies for exiled British convicts. The similar discussions about the United States, it's rarely discussed. There's discussions about tobacco and Jamestown and the Mayflower and refugees of religious persecution, but rarely does the large number of indentured convicts in the American colonies get discussed.

A great deal of the history of the US has been rewritten to create a narrative that it is the land of opportunity and equality. The truth is that we didn't start out that way. It's taken a lot of inner turmoil and strife to get to where we are.

Or as the famous quote says, "Americans do the right thing when they have exhausted every other possibility".
 
KaraBulut said:
In any discussion about Tasmania or Australia, invariably someone mentions that these countries were originally penal colonies for exiled British convicts. The similar discussions about the United States, it's rarely discussed. There's discussions about tobacco and Jamestown and the Mayflower and refugees of religious persecution, but rarely does the large number of indentured convicts in the American colonies get discussed.

A great deal of the history of the US has been rewritten to create a narrative that it is the land of opportunity and equality. The truth is that we didn't start out that way. It's taken a lot of inner turmoil and strife to get to where we are.

Or as the famous quote says, "Americans do the right thing when they have exhausted every other possibility".
Click to expand...

Criminals were a small portion of the English settlers, but liberals hate America so much that they like to exaggerate the importance and misery of the people. Critically you overlook that worldwide the preindustrial condition of the vast majority of people was miserable. Many countries still had serfs, even in Europe. America from the beginning offered a degree of freedom and opportunity even to the convicts, unavailable elsewhere. Most indentured servants became such voluntarily as a way to pay for transportation and security once they were. Here, they were obligated to work for a period but the reciprocal was that the employer guaranteed the necessities of life to him and any family. I am descended from several and they prospered and became land owners which would have been unlikely in the old country. One at least was considered wealthy.
 
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