Healthcare going forward

[Benvolio]

Of course it is -- it means they're participating in treating their neighbors and fellow citizens with dignity and care. Any patriotic American would want to contribute to providing for those in need -- especially Americans who maintain that the country has a Christian heritage.

They are too small a minority to carry that burden.

 

[Stardreamer]

So today Donald is saying that pre-existing conditions will be covered.

Which is the exact opposite of what's in the fucking legislation.

*Laughs* in my messages to my Congressmen expressing my disapproval of the Republican bill, I very heavily laid on the fact that the bill is not what Trump promised.

 

[rareboy]

Okay.

I don't know if this should just go into the Lying Liars thread as well, but it really did seem from what I listened to, that Trump either quite literally has no clue what is in the health care bill...or is just out and out lying.

Or both.

http://www.vox.com/2017/4/30/15492354/trump-ahca-interview

 

[Stardreamer]

Okay.

I don't know if this should just go into the Lying Liars thread as well, but it really did seem from what I listened to, that Trump either quite literally has no clue what is in the health care bill...or is just out and out lying.

Or both.

http://www.vox.com/2017/4/30/15492354/trump-ahca-interview

Sticking with my analogy, Trump doesn't know or really care what Dorthy (House Republicans) is doing. His job is to bloviate behind his giant glowing flame spewing projection and continue to soak up the praise and adoration of the people of Oz. If Dorthy comes back with the broomstick (an actual working health care plan) he gets to claim all the credit. If Dorthy fails then either the things get better since he gave the Witch Dorthy and the slippers (Obamacare continues to work or is reformed) and he can claim that it is all because the Witch is afraid of him. Or it gets worse, in which case he blames Dorthy for not following his instructions and delays while he hopes some other little girl will come along to solve his problems (Obamacare fails and he thinks Democrats will come running to him begging forgiveness).

 

[Benvolio]

It would be more rational to wait until the bill is ready for a vote. Even then compromises between a House and Senate will be needed. Remember, Obama promised healthcare reform but then allowed the dems in Cngress to come up with the actual plan. That is what Trumo is doing.

 

[gsdx]

That is what Trumo is doing.

He's not doing anything. You didn't see or read about that interview he gave, did you? He doesn't have a clue.

 

[rareboy]

It would be more rational to wait until the bill is ready for a vote. Even then compromises between a House and Senate will be needed. Remember, Obama promised healthcare reform but then allowed the dems in Cngress to come up with the actual plan. That is what Trumo is doing.

Yup.

You totally missed the point. Are you just too lazy to read the article? Did you watch his interview?

He can wait all he wants. But on any given day...he'd better have a fucking clue about what is in the bill that he's pushing to get through.

Because he didn't the first time and he doesn't this time.

 

[Kulindahr]

Okay.

I don't know if this should just go into the Lying Liars thread as well, but it really did seem from what I listened to, that Trump either quite literally has no clue what is in the health care bill...or is just out and out lying.

Or both.

http://www.vox.com/2017/4/30/15492354/trump-ahca-interview

I think Trump lives in his own reality, one which interfaces in a rather random way with the actual events of the real world. He reminds me of people I've known who find out they're getting like $500 back from their tax return, imagine three different ways to spend it, and can't admit that they can't spend it three different times and not end up $1000 in the hole.

Trump is sort of like the White Queen, when Alice told her one can't believe impossible things, and the Queen declares that she's sometimes believed six impossible things before breakfast, except that with Trump it's not so much impossible things as contradictory things. And while many humans actually do believe contradictory things, such as flat earthers who nevertheless accept that the International Space Station orbits the earth, standing on that kind of foundation while directing policy is while not an impossible thing definitely is a dangerous thing.

 

[Kulindahr]

Sticking with my analogy, Trump doesn't know or really care what Dorthy (House Republicans) is doing. His job is to bloviate behind his giant glowing flame spewing projection and continue to soak up the praise and adoration of the people of Oz. If Dorthy comes back with the broomstick (an actual working health care plan) he gets to claim all the credit. If Dorthy fails then either the things get better since he gave the Witch Dorthy and the slippers (Obamacare continues to work or is reformed) and he can claim that it is all because the Witch is afraid of him. Or it gets worse, in which case he blames Dorthy for not following his instructions and delays while he hopes some other little girl will come along to solve his problems (Obamacare fails and he thinks Democrats will come running to him begging forgiveness).

LOL

Nice.

To throw a twist on your analogy, it's not that we're not supposed to pay attention to the man behind the curtain, it's that there really is no man behind the curtain -- there's just the "giant glowing flame spewing projection".

 

[Kulindahr]

It would be more rational to wait until the bill is ready for a vote. Even then compromises between a House and Senate will be needed. Remember, Obama promised healthcare reform but then allowed the dems in Cngress to come up with the actual plan. That is what Trumo is doing.

Except Obama didn't run around giving out false information about it during the process.

 

[rareboy]

I think Trump lives in his own reality, one which interfaces in a rather random way with the actual events of the real world. He reminds me of people I've known who find out they're getting like $500 back from their tax return, imagine three different ways to spend it, and can't admit that they can't spend it three different times and not end up $1000 in the hole.

Trump is sort of like the White Queen, when Alice told her one can't believe impossible things, and the Queen declares that she's sometimes believed six impossible things before breakfast, except that with Trump it's not so much impossible things as contradictory things. And while many humans actually do believe contradictory things, such as flat earthers who nevertheless accept that the International Space Station orbits the earth, standing on that kind of foundation while directing policy is while not an impossible thing definitely is a dangerous thing.

Actually, after listening to two fact free interviews he gave that ran today...it really does seem that he has no grip on reality whatsoever.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/01/politics/donald-trump-andrew-jackson-wiretapping/

So, on the health thing, the reality likely is that he did no preparation for the interview, just thinks that whatever he says will be reflected in the bill...and at the end of the day...probably doesn't give a shit anyway, because it has nothing to do with him or his family.

 

[Kulindahr]

Actually, after listening to two fact free interviews he gave that ran today...it really does seem that he has no grip on reality whatsoever.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/01/politics/donald-trump-andrew-jackson-wiretapping/

So, on the health thing, the reality likely is that he did no preparation for the interview, just thinks that whatever he says will be reflected in the bill...and at the end of the day...probably doesn't give a shit anyway, because it has nothing to do with him or his family.

Yep. To Trump, being president is like being a professional wrestler: it's all a show, all meant to get ego-boosting attention, all aimed at getting people to cheer -- regardless of whether there's any substance to it anyway. The crazy thing is that many of his followers fit the same mold, not caring about whether he tells the truth so long as he projects the image they want to see.

I even ran across an article about that when I started looking to see if anyone else thought it was all a circus.

 

[Stardreamer]

So The Hill is reporting there are enough Republican no votes to prevent the latest Obamacare Repeal and Replace effort from passing. While the amendments to allow states to opt out of the pre-existing conditions requirements of the law brought the Freedom Caucus on board enough moderate and even some conservative Republicans are bailing over the language. There are at least 22 reported no votes, which is the maximum the Republicans can afford to lose.

Trump should be happy, even while he and Pence are doing their best to break his promises, there are Republicans with moral values that are standing up for his promise to protect pre-existing condition coverage.

 

[thewiz]

If you watch Trump, he is a professional huckster and master manipulator. While he was handed his ass in a basket on the budget, today he's cheering that we are starting the wall, he undercut the Dems, the military is being greatly expanded and he won, won, won. Just like when he moved dirt at the construction site of a casino for which he needed funding (and which was total BS), he is putting forth a message of win, win, win.

Health care repeal and replace is a sham because.....the ACA contains mostly Republican ideas.

 

[rareboy]

Well it isn't looking promising.

This week, Republicans leaders are again struggling to pass health care legislation in the House. With the defection of former Energy and Commerce Committee Chair Fred Upton this morning, the effort may well be dead. And while there are of course fundamental, ideological reasons why Republicans are having continued difficulty reaching an agreement, I'm guessing one problem is that the president still has absolutely no clue what's in the legislation.

As long as Trump remains wilfully ignorant of the provisions of the legislation...and RyanCo. keeps chasing it further and further down the rabbit hole in order to get the support of the Tea Baggers while losing the support of the moderate Repubs...there is not going to be a repeal and replace bill passed.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox..._idea_what_s_in_his_own_health_care_bill.html

 

[Kulindahr]

Well it isn't looking promising.



As long as Trump remains wilfully ignorant of the provisions of the legislation...and RyanCo. keeps chasing it further and further down the rabbit hole in order to get the support of the Tea Baggers while losing the support of the moderate Repubs...there is not going to be a repeal and replace bill passed.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox..._idea_what_s_in_his_own_health_care_bill.html

I just wish someone with a large audience would use the obvious divisions in the GOP to argue convincingly for California and New York to start the bandwagon rolling on eliminating congressional districts and electing House delegates by party vote statewide, and bust this duopoly open. Between those two states we'd see at least six new parties joining the House, hopefully enough that neither of the entrenched parties would have a majority and people would have to learn to work together. The problem with "bipartisan" efforts is that so long as one party can have a majority -- and with just two parties one is going to have a majority -- no one is going to be truly interested in bipartisanship, so the only way to have real bipartisanship is to have enough parties that no single one can hold a majority (unless it appeals broadly to a large majority of the electorate).

 

[gsdx]

If you watch Trump, he is a professional huckster and master manipulator.

I've been saying that since the campaign. He sold himself and a lot of people bought it. And they got nothing but a man who doesn't know what he's doing and wants to be 'King of the World'. I'm sure he pictured himself standing alone at the bow of the Titanic, arms spread wide, and convinced that, if anything happened to the ship, he alone could fix it.

 

[ballcaphair]

I've been saying that since the campaign. He sold himself and a lot of people bought it. And they got nothing but a man who doesn't know what he's doing and wants to be 'King of the World'. I'm sure he pictured himself standing alone at the bow of the Titanic, arms spread wide, and convinced that, if anything happened to the ship, he alone could fix it.

Who thought sailing a ship of state would be so hard, much less fixing it. I am trying to give this captain the benefit of the doubt, but each day becomes more frightening. Upon inauguration a majority of us did not support him and he will see that only the finest of the first class passengers, his family included, will have life preservers. Each day becomes more horrid.

 

[rareboy]

Hmmmm.

So they are apparently still pushing for a vote this week...tinkering with their tax cut bill disguised as a health care bill in order to try to bring just enough tea baggers and moderates on board.

All we can hope is that when Trump tries to bully them tomorrow that they just say 'Fuck You' again.

Because if this bill passes, the GOP is going to take a shit kicking.

 

[ballcaphair]

Hmmmm.

So they are apparently still pushing for a vote this week...tinkering with their tax cut bill disguised as a health care bill in order to try to bring just enough tea baggers and moderates on board.

All we can hope is that when Trump tries to bully them tomorrow that they just say 'Fuck You' again.

Because if this bill passes, the GOP is going to take a shit kicking.

This is where I am foggy on the construct. Would the GOP actually take a shit kicking, or let trump pronounce it a "fake shit kicking by the failed press?" It seems as though the party seems to give him a pass when it is convenient and lets him take the blame when it suits their needs. Am I getting this straight?