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Healthcare going forward

frankfrank said:
Now I'm hearing rumblings about simply repealing The ACA - and "figuring out" its replacement at some later date, to be determined.

Consider that the last time there was any kind of significant health-care bill legislated and signed into law, it was toward the end of the era when there was still a hint of the two parties working with each other. Even then, it took something like SEVENTY YEARS to get anything passed.

How long will a replacement take this time, with nobody willing to "work across the aisle" - possibly 5,000 years?
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I keep pointing out to the anti-ACA crowd on the various news boards that a full repeal cannot be done through reconciliation so you will have to have 60 votes in the Senate and they won't get that from the Democrats. They represent a lot of Trump's base that just thinks that repealing the ACA and doing nothing else will solve all the problems, that would work if the law had not already gone into effect but now it will throw the health care and insurance markets into chaos.
 
Steven Brill has an editorial in the Washington Post this weekend that proposes that the failure of the Republicans to propose an alternative to the ACA lies, in part, with its history as a Republican proposal to "fix" the US Healthcare system and bypass the Democratic proposal for a single payer health system:

Nine ways to really fix Obamacare
...The failure of the Republicans to agree, so far, on an alternative to Obamacare should not be surprising — because Obamacare was, in fact, the long-standing Republican alternative to the more radical health-care reforms, such as a single-payer system, that Democrats have proposed since the Truman era. What President Barack Obama and his party pushed through Congress in 2010 was more conservative — and more pro-private sector — than what Richard M. Nixon proposed in the 1970s, or what Republican Gov. Mitt Romney implemented in Massachusetts in 2006. Put simply, Obama dared Republicans to take yes for an answer. In a polarized America, they still said no.
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In other words, it's difficult to come up with a replacement for something that you proposed to begin with...
 
KaraBulut said:
Steven Brill has an editorial in the Washington Post this weekend that proposes that the failure of the Republicans to propose an alternative to the ACA lies, in part, with its history as a Republican proposal to "fix" the US Healthcare system and bypass the Democratic proposal for a single payer health system:



In other words, it's difficult to come up with a replacement for something that you proposed to begin with...
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Nonsense. The Republicans never proposed it. Perhaps a few conservatives suggested some aspects similar to parts of Obamacare, but the zrepiblicans in general and those in congress did not ever want it. Some aspects were tried in Mass. but that is a democrat state.
 
Stardreamer said:
I keep pointing out to the anti-ACA crowd on the various news boards that a full repeal cannot be done through reconciliation so you will have to have 60 votes in the Senate and they won't get that from the Democrats. They represent a lot of Trump's base that just thinks that repealing the ACA and doing nothing else will solve all the problems, that would work if the law had not already gone into effect but now it will throw the health care and insurance markets into chaos.
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If Congress does not subsidize it, it will fail.
 
Benvolio said:
Nonsense. The Republicans never proposed it.
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The Health Equity and Access Reform Today Act of 1993 was proposed by Republican Senators.

Read and learn:
The proposal President Barack Obama unveiled on Monday is based largely on the bill passed by the Democratic Senate on Dec. 24, 2009, the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. It has some similarities to a GOP proposal sponsored by Sen. John Chafee, R-R.I., during the Clinton presidency, the Health Equity and Access Reform Today Act of 1993.
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And don't try the RINO argument...
 
Benvolio said:
Nonsense. The Republicans never proposed it. Perhaps a few conservatives suggested some aspects similar to parts of Obamacare, but the zrepiblicans in general and those in congress did not ever want it. Some aspects were tried in Mass. but that is a democrat state.
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You've been corrected on this multiple times. What we call "Obamacare" was essentially written by the Heritage Foundation.
 
The Cruz proposal is an interesting gamble of a gambit. By increasing the risk to those with greater need, it courts the possibility that people will just get fed up with the inequity of the system and go for single payer.

FWIW, people I know are getting tired of the GOP games on the matter, throwing up their hands and deciding single payer is what we need if only to stop the shenanigans.
 
Kulindahr said:
...FWIW, people I know are getting tired of the GOP games on the matter, throwing up their hands and deciding single payer is what we need if only to stop the shenanigans.
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The 1993 Republican bill (the Health Equity and Access Reform Today Act) that was the original individual marketplace proposal was a reaction to the single payer proposal (aka "HillaryCare").

The ACA originally had a public option but Obama agreed to drop the public option as a concession to insurance companies participating in the individual marketplace.

There's a lot of reasons that the individual market is in trouble- lower-than-expected participation by the 19-34 age group, low penalties for non-compliance with the mandate and fears that Congress will de-fund cost-sharing reductions that keep the individual market affordable for most participants.

In 2016, Sanders favored single payer; Clinton favored lowering the minimum age for Medicare to 55 years old. If the individual market fails (or more accurately, if the options continue to be less desirable to participants), then the next time there's a Democratic majority, the public option will be the next thing that is proposed.

In other words, the Republican approach to "repeal" without a viable replacement will inevitably result in a replacement of the individual marketplace with a public option in the near future.
 
Kulindahr said:
You've been corrected on this multiple times. What we call "Obamacare" was essentially written by the Heritage Foundation.
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What does essentially refer to? Did any Republican propose that the government subsidize the policies? There are many many differences between the alleged Heritage thing and the eventual ACA; far too many for you to blame us for it.
 
Benvolio said:
What does essentially refer to? Did any Republican propose that the government subsidize the policies? There are many many differences between the alleged Heritage thing and the eventual ACA; far too many for you to blame us for it.
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It depends on your definition of "Obamacare". If you're talking about the Individual Marketplace and non-single payer solutions, yes- that was a Republican idea that came out of conservative think tanks.

If you're talking the Medicaid expansion and the move to outcome-based reimbursement, no- that was the Affordable Care Act and originated with research and promotion by liberal and non-partisan think tanks.
 
In the United States, average life expectancy is 78.8 years, and healthcare averages $4,571 out of pocket per year.

My out of pocket per year has averaged MUCH, MUCH MORE than that. In the years 2001 to 2012 (when I turned 65) my out of pocket was around $40,000 to $45,000...and another $80,000 Insurance. With Medicare my costs have fallen drastically - and nobody who has provided healthcare for me has been left without full payment (or payment as negotiated).

That's really more than $10,000 per year out of my pocket just for staying healthy.

In Turkey, average life expectancy is 78.0 years, and healthcare averages $121 out of pocket per year.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...rm=233296&subid=20925915&CMP=GT_US_collection
 
frankfrank said:
In the United States, average life expectancy is 78.8 years, and healthcare averages $4,571 out of pocket per year.

My out of pocket per year has averaged MUCH, MUCH MORE than that. In the years 2001 to 2012 (when I turned 65) my out of pocket was around $40,000 to $45,000...and another $80,000 Insurance. With Medicare my costs have fallen drastically - and nobody who has provided healthcare for me has been left without full payment (or payment as negotiated).

That's really more than $10,000 per year out of my pocket just for staying healthy.

In Turkey, average life expectancy is 78.0 years, and healthcare averages $121 out of pocket per year.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...rm=233296&subid=20925915&CMP=GT_US_collection
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So on average Americans are spending better than a third of a million to live less than a year more than Turks.
 
Kulindahr said:
So on average Americans are spending better than a third of a million to live less than a year more than Turks.
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There are more factors in longevity than health care--even if you assume the numbers are accurate. Diet, exercise, genetics, habits. Those differences are more likely to account for that extra year, than healthcare. Muslims for one thing generally do not drink alcohol. Are Turks as fat as Americans? Have as much crime?

,
 
Benvolio said:
Lest you think health care is determinative, US Hispanics have longer lives than whites or black, but no doubt have poorer healthcare than whites.https://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/d...ops-for-whites-rises-for-blacks-and-hispanics
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Benvolio said:
Denmark with socialized medicine has relatively low life expectancy. http://cphpost.dk/news/low-life-expectancy-in-denmark-despite-high-levels-of-health-care.html
Clearly there are other factors at work than socialized medicine or lack thereof.
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Benvolio said:
Probably the biggest factor in longevity is the smoking rate. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_cigarette_consumption_per_capita
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What does any of this have to do with the topic?
 
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