Healthcare going forward

[Kulindahr]

The problem as Ben sees it is that all taxes are bad; all government is bad; kill the beast.

It has been the Republican mantra going back at least 16 years and is one of the reasons the Republican party left me.

That theme is not republican -- and I like the way you describe it, as it fits me as well: the GOP left me; I never moved. Nor is it conservative; a conservative believes the nation should pay its bills. Ultimately it's not even a libertarian mantra, because killing "the beast" just leaves us in a jungle subject to the whims of other beasts which, having no government to restrain them, will employ force as they wish without even a veneer of the consent of the people. Which leads to--

Government is the people; if one finds it bad, evil, and worthy of destruction -- what does that say about the party that espouses such beliefs?

Government is only the people when both government and people are small enough that at least the elected representative knows every constituent by name. But it can still be of the people, and therein lies the error of today's GOP: rather than try to wrestle government back to being of the people, they just want to eliminate it. But without any government at, we will still be governed, except then by whatever entities or persons hold sufficient power to coerce society.

For it is a truth of human society that there will always be governance: someone, or multiple someones, will wield power over others. The choice is not whether or not we will be governed, but whether it will be by an institution at least theoretically pledged to give justice -- and preferably "liberty and justice for all" -- or by forces with no loyalty to anyone but themselves.

So by wanting to "kill the beast", today's GOP is declaring that they desire the second situation, where we are governed by entities lacking any obligation to consider any interests but their own. Essentially, that's a commitment to feudalism; more, to society as a jungle and thus to laissez-faire social Darwinism.

And no wealthy person pays the highest tax rates unless they are an ignoramus. Most have accountants and have "encouraged" Congress to carve out loopholes in the tax codes that often provide them refunds (see largest companies and taxes paid in prior posts). Welfare, low taxes, and not paying federal income taxes are not limited to the working poor; the working wealthy are just as guilty.

Which is why since Reagan the tax structure has served to leave the wealthy even wealthier after taxes in comparison to the rest of society -- a program 440° away from the Judeo-Christian heritage Ben has touted so much.

 

[kallipolis]

Which is why since Reagan the tax structure has served to leave the wealthy even wealthier after taxes in comparison to the rest of society -- a program 440° away from the Judeo-Christian heritage Ben has touted so much.

Well noted...............

 

[ballcaphair]

Well noted...............

Blessed are the taxed, for they shall inherit the debt.

 

[Benvolio]

Well noted...............

The wealthy pay a higher income tax rate than others. Taxes were never intended to stifle ambition.

 

[KaraBulut]

...Government is the people; if one finds it bad, evil, and worthy of destruction -- what does that say about the party that espouses such beliefs?

Or maybe the more apt question is "What does it say about the people who vote for and repeatedly elect a government they say they hate?".

There was a short period where everyone might have groused about government but in the end they wanted a good government where the roads were maintained, the airports didn't look like a third world country, the streets were safe to walk at night and people didn't die for want of good healthcare.

The conservatism that is espoused by many in the Republican leadership doesn't have any of those "good government" goals that the Republican party used to espouse. Instead of arguing that Americans are entitled to a dollar of good government for every dollar they pay, the new argument seems to be that we still want $1 of services but we only want to pay 75 cents for it and put the other 25 cents on credit to pay off at some obscure future date.

But again, these are the politicians we've elected. There's no one to blame but those who voted and, just as much, those who can't be bothered to vote.

There was an editorial this weekend by Joe Scarborough that said it much more eloquently:
Joe Scarborough: 'I did not leave the Republican Party,' the GOP left 'its senses'

 

[Benvolio]

Or maybe the more apt question is "What does it say about the people who vote for and repeatedly elect a government they say they hate?".

There was a short period where everyone might have groused about government but in the end they wanted a good government where the roads were maintained, the airports didn't look like a third world country, the streets were safe to walk at night and people didn't die for want of good healthcare.

The conservatism that is espoused by many in the Republican leadership doesn't have any of those "good government" goals that the Republican party used to espouse. Instead of arguing that Americans are entitled to a dollar of good government for every dollar they pay, the new argument seems to be that we still want $1 of services but we only want to pay 75 cents for it and put the other 25 cents on credit to pay off at some obscure future date.

But again, these are the politicians we've elected. There's no one to blame but those who voted and, just as much, those who can't be bothered to vote.

There was an editorial this weekend by Joe Scarborough that said it much more eloquently:
Joe Scarborough: 'I did not leave the Republican Party,' the GOP left 'its senses'

The Constitution grants limited power to the Federal government, but expressly reserved all other powers to the States and the people.
No power to control roads, airports, street safety or healthcare was granted to the federal government. Democrats are determined that everything will be controlled by the federal government. Republicans resist that power grab.

 

[Kulindahr]

The wealthy pay a higher income tax rate than others. Taxes were never intended to stifle ambition.

Taxes on the upper bracket were on the order of 90% under Eisenhower, and that never stifled ambition.

 

[Kulindahr]

But again, these are the politicians we've elected. There's no one to blame but those who voted and, just as much, those who can't be bothered to vote.

There was an editorial this weekend by Joe Scarborough that said it much more eloquently:
Joe Scarborough: 'I did not leave the Republican Party,' the GOP left 'its senses'

Yes, there is someone to blame: the 0.25% who vote in the first and most important election, the money election. We voters only get to choose between candidates already approved by the wealthy.

So we get a government that pays attention foremost to the wishes of the wealthy -- not the best interests of the wealthy, but their wishes.

We can only hope that Joe's prediction comes to pass:

"Political historians will one day view Donald Trump as a historical anomaly. But the wreckage visited of this man will break the Republican Party into pieces — and lead to the election of independent thinkers no longer tethered to the tired dogmas of the polarized past," Scarborough predicted.

 

[KaraBulut]

...So we get a government that pays attention foremost to the wishes of the wealthy -- not the best interests of the wealthy, but their wishes.

It is a good point. A lot of what we view as "lies" that politicians make to get votes are, sadly, things that they might like to do but that their donor base isn't going to allow them to do.

What is happening with the Healthcare bill is an example of that.

 

[Kulindahr]

It is a good point. A lot of what we view as "lies" that politicians make to get votes are, sadly, things that they might like to do but that their donor base isn't going to allow them to do.

What is happening with the Healthcare bill is an example of that.

The crazy thing is that they can't even actually act in their donor base's best interests quite often. A healthy work force is definitely in the interest of most of their donor base, but a small contingent -- the people committed to siphoning off money from health care to fill their own pockets -- oppose achieving it.

Just as a guaranteed basic income would be in the interests of their donor base -- though on that topic some are starting to see the light as they realize that without such a thing their customer base is going to keep shrinking as more jobs pay less.

 

[rareboy]

So.

Dead Again.

Trumpcare V 2.1.1 is dead.

The Senate Republicans’ health care bill died Monday night around 8:45 p.m., when Senator Mike Lee tweeted that he and GOP colleague Senator Jerry Moran could not vote for it:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/trumpcare-is-deaduntil-next-time?source=TDB&via=FB_Page

 

[gsdx]

^ So, is Trump 'very angry' yet?

EDIT: Yup. Ol' Twitter Thumbs was at it first thing this morning.

The president tweeted Tuesday that "Most Republicans were loyal, terrific & worked really hard," but says, "We were let down by all of the Democrats and a few Republicans."

He added, "As I have always said, let ObamaCare fail and then come together and do a great healthcare plan. Stay tuned!"

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/latest-trump-blasts-dems-gop-121137668.html

 

[smokeshadow]

It looks like the conservatives are now going to try to repeal the PPACA without any replacement

http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovemen...eal_obamacare_without_replacing_for_two_years

and the Donald continues to blame the liberals for the failure of his proposed health care replacement: http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovemen..._end_the_filibuster_which_would_be_disastrous

 

[gsdx]

Going down...

NEW YORK — U.S. stocks are mostly lower Tuesday as banks slump along with bond yields and interest rates. Health insurers are trading lower after a Republican health care bill failed in the Senate.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/banks-slide-insurers-fall-gop-160954413.html

 

[thewiz]

The Constitution grants limited power to the Federal government, but expressly reserved all other powers to the States and the people.
No power to control roads, airports, street safety or healthcare was granted to the federal government. Democrats are determined that everything will be controlled by the federal government. Republicans resist that power grab.

The Republicans have certainly done a great job of "resisting." President Eisenhower proposed and began the Interstate Highway System. It was also 1958 and under Ike that the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) and airport oversight began because highways, water, airports, highway safety, and healthcare are not confined by artificially drawn state boundaries but are "interstate" not "intrastate." By the way, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) was also create by a Republican -- Richard Nixon -- and has been responsible for the drastic reduction of highway fatalities and the increase in survival rates when crashes do occur by better auto design.

Only Donald Trump seems more oblivious to reality than this statement with his blaming of the failure of "Repeal and Replace" the fault of Obama and the Democrats!

 

[ballcaphair]

Going down...



https://ca.news.yahoo.com/banks-slide-insurers-fall-gop-160954413.html

This is a perfect example of the roller coaster that this administration and congress exemplify. From Wall Street all the way down to a rural New Mexico Clinic. Budgets, emotions, securities and literal life and death decisions are dashed. Is there no common sense? Is there no debate. Is there no chance to catch our breath?

 

[frankfrank]

and the Donald continues to blame the liberals for the failure of his proposed health care replacement

That's rich.

Didn't they originally try to get it passed, deliberately making sure there was no Democrat involvement...at all?

"Oh my God - they killed [STRIKE]Kenn[/STRIKE] healthcare! You bastards!" - Tronald Dump

 

[rareboy]

^ So, is Trump 'very angry' yet?

EDIT: Yup. Ol' Twitter Thumbs was at it first thing this morning.



https://ca.news.yahoo.com/latest-trump-blasts-dems-gop-121137668.html

 

[gsdx]

^ And the Republican who refused to vote for it.

 

[Stardreamer]

Now that the Republican partisan effort has failed perhaps to we can get to doing this the way it should have been done from the start, with McConnell's promise to bring the Democrats in and develop a bipartisan solution.